Senators Demand the Military Lock Up American Citizens ON US SOIL

[ballen0351]

And here is another opinion on the current version of the bill.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2011/11/us_rep_justin_amash_opposes_de.html



Lawyerspeak indeed.

So what is it your upset about? The fact that US citizens can be detained? We already kill US Citizens

One week after a U.S. military airstrike killed a 16-year-old American citizen in Yemen, no one in the Obama administration, Pentagon or Congress has taken responsibility for his death, or even publicly acknowledged that it happened.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...al-questions/2011/10/20/gIQAdvUY7L_story.html

16 year old kid born in Denver Co. and a US Citizen. Were you so upset when taht happened?

 

[Makalakumu]

Yes, I was upset. The extra-judicial killings are probably what this bill is addressing and adding a little more power for good measure.

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

 

[billc]

Makalakumu, you may be right on this after all. Senator Mark Kirk was on the Don and Roma morning show here in chicago and he said he voted against the bill because the white house stripped out the provision that exempted U.S. citizens from the law. Which would mean U.S. citizens could be taken into custody and detained by the military if this passes the house and is signed by the president. Now, I was busy while I was listening to his segment so there may be some details I am missing, but it does need to be looked into and calls need to be made to members of congress if this turns out to be true. I can't look up the details of the bill or how it was passed thru the senate right now but keep in mind, this is a Democrat controlled senate that brought this bill to a vote and passed it. I'll hold the republicans who voted for this responsible as well if the details are true.

 

[Makalakumu]

http://www.infowars.com/indefinite-detention-bill-passes-senate-93-7/

The Senate last night codified into law the power of the U.S. military to indefinitely detain an American citizen with no charge, no trial and no oversight whatsoever with the passage of S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act.

One amendment that would have specifically blocked the measures from being used against U.S. citizens was voted down and the final bill was passed 93-7.

​

Another amendment introduced by Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein that attempted to bar the provision from being used on American soil, an effort to ensure “the military won’t be roaming our streets looking for suspected terrorists,” also failed, although Feinstein voted in favor of the bill anyway.
​

It's got bi-partisan support.

“The bill puts military detention authority on steroids and makes it permanent, American citizens and others are at greater risk of being locked away by the military without charge or trial,” said Christopher Anders, senior legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union.

​

As Spencer Ackerman highlights, the bill completely violates the sixth amendment in that it allows American citizens to be locked up indefinitely, including in a foreign detention center, without any burden of proof whatsoever. An American merely has to be declared a terrorist and they can be abducted off the streets and never seen again.

​

“The detention mandate to use indefinite military detention in terrorism cases isn’t limited to foreigners. It’s confusing, because two different sections of the bill seem to contradict each other, but in the judgment of the University of Texas’ Robert Chesney — a nonpartisan authority on military detention — “U.S. citizens are included in the grant of detention authority,” writes Ackerman.
​

The left and the right both say that it includes American citizens.

Though the White House has threatened to veto the bill, the fact that Obama administration lawyers yesterday reaffirmed their backing for state sponsored assassination of U.S. citizens would suggest otherwise. Not voting for the bill, or in other words upholding the oath to protect the Constitution, has been described over and over again as “political suicide”.

Will Obama sign it? I've subsequently read that one of the reasons that the Obama Administration was opposed was because it actually limited the White Houses power. They could do it all under the table before. Now, they have to notify congress. Not that this is a good thing, because this bill effectively rolls back some of our statutory protections like Posse Comitatus.

Is this two minutes to midnight on American Freedom?

 

[elder999]

Is this two minutes to midnight on American Freedom?

Nah, dude.

It's a new dawn. "Midnight" passed a long time ago, while everyone was sleeping.

 

[billc]

Here is an update:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57343287/wh-oks-military-detention-of-terrorism-suspects/

The White House is signing off on a controversial new law that would authorize the U.S. military to arrest and indefinitely detain alleged al Qaeda members or other terrorist operatives captured on American soil.

Hope and change you can believe in, hmmmm...

"By signing this defense spending bill, President Obama will go down in history as the president who enshrined indefinite detention without trial in U.S. law," said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. "In the past, Obama has lauded the importance of being on the right side of history, but today he is definitely on the wrong side."​

Obama signing on to this doesn't surprise me. I wonder how many republican dimwits voted for this.http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57336424/the-problem-with-captured-terrorism-suspects/

 

[Makalakumu]

Now that Obama has built upon the foundation that Bush built upon, is anyone else out there seeing this political game from a different perspective?

Never mind that this effectively repeals the Bill of Rights...

 

[elder999]

Now that Obama has built upon the foundation that Bush built upon, is anyone else out there seeing this political game from a different perspective?

Never mind that this effectively repeals the Bill of Rights...

Nah. Tried telling y'all years ago. My perspective hasn't changed-it's being proven..............

 

[Makalakumu]

Nah. Tried telling y'all years ago. My perspective hasn't changed-it's being proven..............

Consider myself told. You're right. Now what?

 

[elder999]

Consider myself told. You're right. Now what?

Well, you should have done what I did:

Get rich.Build an off-grid home.Learn animal husbandry-keep goats, chickens, pigs and rabbits. Garden.Have a vineyard and an orchard. Keep bees. Learn to make wine, mead, beer, cheese and preserves. Buy a boat and a plane. Convert a truck to run on biodiesel, Guns. Bullets. Stockpile food, medicine, fuel and barter items.

Of course, if you haven't done that, it's almost too late, but you can still do what I've done all along:

Pray.

 

[Makalakumu]

Well, you should have done what I did:

Get rich.Build an off-grid home.Learn animal husbandry-keep goats, chickens, pigs and rabbits. Garden.Have a vineyard and an orchard. Keep bees. Learn to make wine, mead, beer, cheese and preserves. Buy a boat and a plane. Convert a truck to run on biodiesel, Guns. Bullets. Stockpile food, medicine, fuel and barter items.

Of course, if you haven't done that, it's almost too late, but you can still do what I've done all along:

Pray.

I'm stealing this speech for my next post apocalyptic movie poignant flashback where the archetype anarcho-guide-figure chastises his wayward pupils for casting his wisdom aside and the scene shifts to the future where the doomed are being similarly chastised.

It's epic. I'll get rich, and then I'll be advanced to step one on the list that you laid out for us.

 

[elder999]

It's epic. I'll get rich, and then I'll be advanced to step one on the list that you laid out for us.

"Step one" is key.

I am the 1%.

Not really-more like somewhere in the top 5% of the 99%, but it sounded good (to go with the post apocalyptic movie poingant flashback, etc....:lfao: )

bwahahahah.....haha and all that. :lfao:

Seriously-you're in Hawaii. Learn to sail and get a boat. Forget about taking the country back-it was lost before we were born. No one listened then, and no one who can do anything about it is listening now-they're too busy making sure that they stay the 1%.

A great Republican:

[yt]8y06NSBBRtY[/yt]

and, just for billi, a not-so-great one:

[yt]AZU0c8DAIU4[/yt]

We get what we deserve......

I know that it's comin'
but I ain't worried none,
'cause we got enough pity to go around
and everybody's gonna get them some.

 

[Makalakumu]

Seriously-you're in Hawaii. Learn to sail and get a boat. Forget about taking the country back-it was lost before we were born. No one listened then, and no one who can do anything about it is listening now-they're too busy making sure that they stay the 1%.

Well, I'm making more money then I ever have, despite the depression, so I'm on the path of building my exit strategy.

In the meantime, if there is even a chance of saving something of this country, I'm going to go for it, because I'd rather live here then any other place. If anyone out there is interested in doing the same, put your support behind Ron Paul. He can't fix everything, but it's a step in the right direction. Peace and liberty.

Incidentally, Obama's veto threat had nothing to do with Civil Liberties. It surrounded the whole idea that Congress would provide oversight to this power. So, the law was rewritten to take out the oversight clauses...and the veto threat disappears. The executive branch has total dictatorial power and most of the other candidates for president, other then Ron Paul, are total psychopaths.

The ejection button is flashing red.

 

[Empty Hands]

Get rich.Build an off-grid home.Learn animal husbandry-keep goats, chickens, pigs and rabbits. Garden.Have a vineyard and an orchard. Keep bees. Learn to make wine, mead, beer, cheese and preserves. Buy a boat and a plane. Convert a truck to run on biodiesel, Guns. Bullets. Stockpile food, medicine, fuel and barter items.

Dammit, I ALWAYS forget that one! *grumble grumble*

 

[elder999]

Dammit, I ALWAYS forget that one! *grumble grumble*

"Rich" is relative.

I know people on the rez living at a subsistence level who will probably be bothered by what's coming way less than most......

 

[Makalakumu]

"Rich" is relative.

I know people on the rez living at a subsistence level who will probably be bothered by what's coming way less than most......

"We're all on the Reservation now..." Russell Means.

 

[elder999]

"We're all on the Reservation now..." Russell Means.

Eh....I lost all respect for Russell a long time ago....

Of course, he's dying, and tried to do a lot of good things-best to speak of them, and not speak ill of someone so close to passing........

 

[Tez3]

Eh....I lost all respect for Russell a long time ago....

Of course, he's dying, and tried to do a lot of good things-best to speak of them, and not speak ill of someone so close to passing........[/QUOTE]

Now that and 'don't speak ill of the dead' has always puzzled me, why not, should we not tell the truth, why do we have to lie about the dead or dying? if they were nasty, evil etc etc why do we have to say they weren't just because they've gone? Tell the truth and shame the devil as people say here.

 

[elder999]

Eh....I lost all respect for Russell a long time ago....

Of course, he's dying, and tried to do a lot of good things-best to speak of them, and not speak ill of someone so close to passing........[/QUOTE]

Now that and 'don't speak ill of the dead' has always puzzled me, why not, should we not tell the truth, why do we have to lie about the dead or dying? if they were nasty, evil etc etc why do we have to say they weren't just because they've gone? Tell the truth and shame the devil as people say here.

Well, he's not dead yet, and I know him, and can think of any number of people I'd much rather have haunting me than him.The truth includes positives and negatives, though the negatives pretty much outweighed the positives for me
when I found out that he was beating his wife and her family-that's always been a deal-breaker for me, and I've severed friendships over it before, though he and I are casual acquaintances at best-in my opinon, anyway-last time we met, back in 2008 or so, he called me "nephew." That's an Indian thing, and indicated something a little deeper than casual to those around us.

I made a point of not calling him "uncle."


In any case, I won't be saying anything negative about him until he leaves this life-so as not to distract him, you see. That's also an "Indian thing."

 

[Tez3]

Well, he's not dead yet, and I know him, and can think of any number of people I'd much rather have haunting me than him.The truth includes positives and negatives, though the negatives pretty much outweighed the positives for me
when I found out that he was beating his wife and her family-that's always been a deal-breaker for me, and I've severed friendships over it before, though he and I are casual acquaintances at best-in my opinon, anyway-last time we met, back in 2008 or so, he called me "nephew." That's an Indian thing, and indicated something a little deeper than casual to those around us.

I made a point of not calling him "uncle."


In any case, I won't be saying anything negative about him until he leaves this life-so as not to distract him, you see. That's also an "Indian thing."

It's also I've discovered a Nepalese thing, my shift partner is often called uncle by the younger Ghurkhas and he call the old guys uncle.

Interesting explanation, thank you. The more we know about other ways of life the more we can come to understandings between us.