Self-Defense laws in your state?

[Pepsiman]

As far as self-defense goes in terms of martial arts, any seasoned veteran will tell you that in most cases, the best course of action is to exercise self-control and walk away, which is perfectly fine in most cases. Discipline is as much mental as it is physical. But I think we can all agree that having the ability to defend yourself is a good thing. Martial Arts is perfect for developing the tools to protect yourself, but legally speaking the subject can be a bit.....tricky. I'm sure it also doesn't help that the laws regarding self-defense could be different, depending on which state you hail from. So, out of curiosity, what are the laws regarding self-defense in the state (or part of the world for anyone outside of the US) you live in?

In the state of Florida, we have in place something called a "Stand-your-ground" law. What that basically is, according to Wikipedia, "is a justification in a criminal case, whereby defendants can 'stand their ground' and use force without retreating, in order to protect and defend themselves or others against threats or perceived threats. An example is where there is no duty to retreat from any place where they have a lawful right to be, and that they may use any level of force if they reasonably believe the threat rises to the level of being an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death."

So, what about you guys? Do you have a law like this, or something completely different?

 

[Paul_D]

Does SYG only apply to certain situations though? Suchas if you are in your home defending yourself against an intruder. Or does it literally apply anehete you have a lawful right to be, such as a street?

 

[Buka]

I have no idea what the law in my state is. I'll check, though. But to me, any case of self defense, in any state, pretty much comes down to common sense.

 

[Headhunter]

No idea and I don't care. If I'm ever attacked and think my life's in danger I couldn't give a stuff about the law I'll do what I have to do to survive and I'll take the consequences whatever they are. If you hesitate because of worrying about law or getting in trouble that's when you get seriously hurt or killed

 

[jks9199]

No idea and I don't care. If I'm ever attacked and think my life's in danger I couldn't give a stuff about the law I'll do what I have to do to survive and I'll take the consequences whatever they are. If you hesitate because of worrying about law or getting in trouble that's when you get seriously hurt or killed

You're setting yourself and anyone you instruct up for a trip to jail. Self defense should include prevention strategies and tactics, tools for handling violence when it happens, and planning and preparation for the aftermath -- including avoiding the gray bar hotel. Ideally, avoiding trial at all. Learn the rules, and you won't hesitate; you'll know what you can and can't do. Or are you unable to control yourself in a ring and fight under the rules of the event in question?

You need to learn the self defense laws where you live. They're generally not insanely hard; in most of the US, the general principle can be summed up with "You may use the force reasonably necessary to safely resolve the situation." A lay person won't be held to the same standards as, say, a cop -- or a trained fighter. Oh, crap. Trained fighter. It just might behoove you to understand how things will play out, so that you can avoid a very expensive criminal trial, and a grievously expensive civil trial -- even if you're right.

Or you can roll the dice on any variant of the "tried by twelve rather than carried by six" saw...

 

[Paul_D]

No idea and I don't care. If I'm ever attacked and think my life's in danger I couldn't give a stuff about the law I'll do what I have to do to survive and I'll take the consequences whatever they are. If you hesitate because of worrying about law or getting in trouble that's when you get seriously hurt or killed

Once you learn the law then you don't need worry about it, and therefore won't hesitate, and don't go to jail. Choosing to not learn the law so you risk breaking it and going to jail doesn't make sense to me on any level.

 

[jobo]

Does SYG only apply to certain situations though? Suchas if you are in your home defending yourself against an intruder. Or does it literally apply anehete you have a lawful right to be, such as a street?

I understand it applies in all public places

 

[Paul_D]

In the U.K. there is no legal requirement to retreat, in order to later claim self defence. However, if you had the opportunity to do so and chose not to, that will be taken into consideration.

 

[jobo]

In the U.K. there is no legal requirement to retreat, in order to later claim self defence. However, if you had the opportunity to do so and chose not to, that will be taken into consideration.

which law says that?

 

[Paul_D]

which law says that?

Failure to retreat when attacked and when it is possible and safe to do so, is not conclusive evidence that a person was not acting in self defence. It is simply a factor to be taken into account rather than as giving rise to a duty to retreat when deciding whether the degree of force was reasonable in the circumstances (section 76(6) Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008). It is not necessary that the defendant demonstrates by walking away that he does not want to engage in physical violence: (R v Bird 81 Cr App R 110).

 

[Headhunter]

You're setting yourself and anyone you instruct up for a trip to jail. Self defense should include prevention strategies and tactics, tools for handling violence when it happens, and planning and preparation for the aftermath -- including avoiding the gray bar hotel. Ideally, avoiding trial at all. Learn the rules, and you won't hesitate; you'll know what you can and can't do. Or are you unable to control yourself in a ring and fight under the rules of the event in question?

You need to learn the self defense laws where you live. They're generally not insanely hard; in most of the US, the general principle can be summed up with "You may use the force reasonably necessary to safely resolve the situation." A lay person won't be held to the same standards as, say, a cop -- or a trained fighter. Oh, crap. Trained fighter. It just might behoove you to understand how things will play out, so that you can avoid a very expensive criminal trial, and a grievously expensive civil trial -- even if you're right.

Or you can roll the dice on any variant of the "tried by twelve rather than carried by six" saw...

Well I don't teach so that's no problem and I'll always try and avoid it but if I can't and they're seriously trying to hurt me I'll put them down hard and fast

 

[CB Jones]

In America, the difference in laws will be:

Castle Doctrine: in short you're allowed to protect yourself on your property without being required to retreat.

Stand your ground: 2 differences

1). Some states do not require you to retreat from anyplace you are legally allowed be

2). Some states require you to retreat if you can.


Also some states have actual stand your ground and castle doctrine laws....others only have court precedents governing It

 

[hoshin1600]

Castle Doctrine: in short you're allowed to protect yourself on your property without being required to retreat.

need to be careful here with wording, as specific words in law are important.

Ma. castle doctrine.
General law , Part IV, Title II Chapter 278
Section 8A: Killing or injuring a person unlawfully in a dwelling; defense

Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.

in Massachusetts the Castle Doctrine will only apply to "within the Domicile" meaning within the four walls of the building, take one step outside of the house and you will be under different circumstances.


MA. General law, Part III, Title II, Chapter 231
Section 85U: Death or injury to unlawful dwelling occupants; liability of lawful occupants
Section 85U. No person who is a lawful occupant of a dwelling shall be liable in an action for damages for death or injuries to an unlawful occupant of said dwelling resulting from the acts of said lawful occupant; provided, however, that said lawful occupant was in the dwelling at the time of the occurrence and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said lawful dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said lawful occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall not be a duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.


In general Massachusetts has a "duty to retreat" . to my knowledge there is no "stand your ground" in Mass at this time.
my understanding is the intent of "stand your ground" is to protect the defender when he/she is out side the home, in public.

 

[CB Jones]

Louisiana has a Stand Your Ground Law with no requirement to retreat

 

[Balrog]

As peaceably as possible, as forcibly as necessary. Texas has no "duty to retreat", but I think one could make an argument that stepping back into a defensive stance is retreating, since you are moving away from the attacker.

Here's the TL;DR version:

PENAL CODE CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY​

 

[CB Jones]

As peaceably as possible, as forcibly as necessary. Texas has no "duty to retreat", but I think one could make an argument that stepping back into a defensive stance is retreating, since you are moving away from the attacker.

Here's the TL;DR version:

PENAL CODE CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY​

Legally, retreat means to leave the area.

Just getting into a defensive posture is not gonna meet the requirement for most states that require retreat.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

So, what about you guys? Do you have a law like this, or something completely different?

This is Michigan's law on self-defense:

Michigan Legislature - Section 780.951

PRESUMPTION REGARDING SELF-DEFENSE (EXCERPT)
Act 311 of 2006

780.951 Individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force; presumption; definitions.

Sec. 1.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:

(a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.

(b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).​

There are exceptions. The above is an excerpt of an excerpt. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. My opinion only.

I have always advocated that people learn the laws of self-defense in the area where they live, but few feel it necessary or they're just too lazy. Like the people who carry guns but can't be arsed to practice with them. Some people are just foolish that way.

I know more that a few who will read the above excerpt from the law and decide it says something it does not say. I don't know how to address that. I guess maybe they should think about paying an attorney for an hour's time to explain to them.

I'd also remind people that even when a person uses self-defense (lethal or otherwise, but especially when deadly force is used), their life is about to change, permanently and in ways they never expected. You can be within the law and still find your life turned upside down. You can lose your job, be arrested, charged with a crime, sued in civil court, and so on. You can end up mortgaging your future to hire lawyers to defend you EVEN when you are IN THE RIGHT. Even when you eventually win in court because you literally did nothing wrong, you may find your future virtually destroyed, and that's assuming that you can get past the actual even in question from a mental health point of view.

Bottom line - you know who scrubs the bad guy's brains off the walls? You do, sport. You do. Might want to keep that in mind.

 

[lklawson]

Martial Arts is perfect for developing the tools to protect yourself, but legally speaking the subject can be a bit.....tricky.

No. It's not. Self Defense is Self Defense and Justifiable Deadly Force is Justifiable regardless of what deadly force was used. It really isn't all that hard. Don't be an Initial Aggressor. Walk away when you reasonably can while maintaining your own safety and that of other innocent third parties you may be responsible for. Only use Deadly Force when there is a reasonably articulable threat of death or serious bodily injury to yourself or a third party which you know to be innocent.

It just ain't that hard.

I'm sure it also doesn't help that the laws regarding self-defense could be different, depending on which state you hail from. So, out of curiosity, what are the laws regarding self-defense in the state (or part of the world for anyone outside of the US) you live in?

Don't take legal advice from people on the internet. Go find a lawyer or legal advice in your state. Pay for it if you must.

In the state of Florida, we have in place something called a "Stand-your-ground" law. What that basically is, according to Wikipedia, "is a justification in a criminal case, whereby defendants can 'stand their ground' and use force without retreating, in order to protect and defend themselves or others against threats or perceived threats. An example is where there is no duty to retreat from any place where they have a lawful right to be, and that they may use any level of force if they reasonably believe the threat rises to the level of being an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death."

Don't take legal advice from Wikipedia. That's even worse than taking legal advice from strangers on the internet who may or may not have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

In particular ignore meanderings about Stand Your Ground laws because the vast majority of people blabbering about it have no frigg'n clew what they're talking about. The U.S. Firearms Community is slightly more clewed in than most others (including, I've found, "martial artists") but even then there are misunderstandings.

So, what about you guys? Do you have a law like this, or something completely different?

Around 3/5ths of the U.S. has some form of Stand Your Ground law. Most of them are similar but some of them are just a bit different. Ohio is an example.

Go talk to a lawyer or find your states major firearms-for-self-defense advocacy organization, such as the Buckeye Firearms Association here in Ohio, and find out their information on it.

Ignore everything else.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Does SYG only apply to certain situations though? Suchas if you are in your home defending yourself against an intruder. Or does it literally apply anehete you have a lawful right to be, such as a street?

That's usually Castle Doctrine here in the U.S.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Buka]

No. It's not. Self Defense is Self Defense and Justifiable Deadly Force is Justifiable regardless of what deadly force was used. It really isn't all that hard. Don't be an Initial Aggressor. Walk away when you reasonably can while maintaining your own safety and that of other innocent third parties you may be responsible for. Only use Deadly Force when there is a reasonably articulable threat of death or serious bodily injury to yourself or a third party which you know to be innocent.

It just ain't that hard.


Don't take legal advice from people on the internet. Go find a lawyer or legal advice in your state. Pay for it if you must.

Don't take legal advice from Wikipedia. That's even worse than taking legal advice from strangers on the internet who may or may not have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

In particular ignore meanderings about Stand Your Ground laws because the vast majority of people blabbering about it have no frigg'n clew what they're talking about. The U.S. Firearms Community is slightly more clewed in than most others (including, I've found, "martial artists") but even then there are misunderstandings.

Around 3/5ths of the U.S. has some form of Stand Your Ground law. Most of them are similar but some of them are just a bit different. Ohio is an example.

Go talk to a lawyer or find your states major firearms-for-self-defense advocacy organization, such as the Buckeye Firearms Association here in Ohio, and find out their information on it.

Ignore everything else.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

That there post says it all.