Self Defense from rape

drop bear said:
Never liked it.
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I like it for the ability to just let someone new (or in a seminar) have a bit of a go without worrying so much about hurting the "attacker". I can't think it would get much use beyond that - maybe in their first test (I test some simple defensive work even at that point).
 
While doing some Chin Na, one of my teachers told me this. It might be useful to those of us who have to ramp up to crazed-badger status:

"Grab his forearm! Press your thumb into it! He invaded your space, so you have full license to invade his!"

It should also apply to kicks, punches, and general in-his-face insanity
 
I have only been in MA for a few years, but for self defense I think attitude and fighting spirit matter. I also think its one of the harder things to muster - for a women, a youth, or even a man. I attended 1-2 of my schools women's self defense classes and part of it included getting angry and swearing as the teacher shoved you. As a mild mannered guy I found it difficult to muster this up. Then again I am a big guy and usually dont have to do much.

In my adult class and my child's classes they are also about "show me some attitude". I think its important - and hard for anyone to switch this on when attacked. I actually worry about this for my young daughter - she is big and strong for her age, and does well on technique but she is such a sweet and non combative girl. Perhaps teen years will bring some attitude, but I also dont want her being an mean girl regularly. To be able to just switch it when needed - thats a trick.

Those words of that Seattle Woman really stick with me - "Not today Mother F'er...." Good for her.
 
crazydiamond said:
I think attitude and fighting spirit matter. I also think its one of the harder things to muster - for a women, a youth, or even a man. I attended 1-2 of my schools women's self defense classes and part of it included getting angry and swearing as the teacher shoved you. As a mild mannered guy I found it difficult to muster this up.
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Attitude and fighting spirit is everything. It will help define the quality of your training I think many traditional martial arts systems have the solution. Learn to fight without getting angry and without emotions dictating how you perform. When I teach people how to fight / defending themselves, I take the emotion out of what they have to do. I rather that they have focus than anger. Focus is easier pull out of someone than anger. Even people who have short attention spans can focus when needed. Test example: If throw tennis balls at students with medium and hard force then it is their focus that will help them to evade the tennis ball not their anger. After getting hit a couple of times, they will start tracking tell-tale signs that I'm about to throw the ball. Still no anger, but excellent use with the same skill sets and focus needed to fight with.
-Agility
-Timing and awarness.
- Recognizing Tell-tale signs
- Endurance
- An understanding that they will get hit
- Hand and eye coordination
- Strategy
- Intent.
They even have a little Horse stance action going on. Maybe I'll need to create a Jow Ga dodgeball team


 
crazydiamond said:
I have only been in MA for a few years, but for self defense I think attitude and fighting spirit matter. I also think its one of the harder things to muster - for a women, a youth, or even a man. I attended 1-2 of my schools women's self defense classes and part of it included getting angry and swearing as the teacher shoved you. As a mild mannered guy I found it difficult to muster this up. Then again I am a big guy and usually dont have to do much.

In my adult class and my child's classes they are also about "show me some attitude". I think its important - and hard for anyone to switch this on when attacked. I actually worry about this for my young daughter - she is big and strong for her age, and does well on technique but she is such a sweet and non combative girl. Perhaps teen years will bring some attitude, but I also dont want her being an mean girl regularly. To be able to just switch it when needed - thats a trick.

Those words of that Seattle Woman really stick with me - "Not today Mother F'er...." Good for her.
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"Anger" may not be the right word. Emotional content maybe. And I've found it different amongst students, sometimes based on their personalities, sometimes based on how they handle an adrenaline dump, and obviously, sometimes both.

I've noticed over the years that pushing physical limitations in training sometimes seems to help bring out the emotional content when it's called for in other things. As an example - when doing resistance exercises, be it weight training, push ups, chin ups, whatever, an individual has to make use of the "pushing of oneself" - that teeth gritted, core tightened, mental scream of "one more, one more, one more". Over time, it seems to harden the attitude, shape the will and readies the body for physical stress - probably because it's getting used to it.

I think it then becomes easier to apply that "one more, one more" attitude to an individual's techniques, strategies and eventually to their overall make up as a Martial Artist.

That being said - high emotional content can tire you as well as drive you. It's up to the individual to learn the differences and harness the best way. As an example - if we are competing against each other, or sparring each other, and I'm all amped up and your calm as can be....if you play me right - there's a good chance I'll tire long before you will. What that can teach you, at the very least, is how emotional content can work for or against.
 
Buka said:
"Anger" may not be the right word. Emotional content maybe.
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Ya I get you. Hard to define it - but the woman who was defending herself was mustering something between anger and strong defiance. Her stating with strong hard emotion "not today M'fer !" and fighting back - is very similar to what was in that self defense class I attended. The instructor aggressively shoves and says he is going to hurt and looks mean (he is formal military guy so he does it convincingly) - and you either turtle, go weak...or show some teeth and swear back.

From my standpoint in my regular classes is something more subtle - its a scowl and a certain expression/energy while sparing - but also separating "the hard *** spirit" from hitting hard on your good class mates.

As a man, besides being mild mannered, I am also a big guy. Over the course of my life when I have acted a bit bit angry/aggressive (normal persons pissed off - not violent) I have seen people around me - get worried - or frankly scared. So I work on not doing that - I dont like the look in their faces - I feel bad - but also frustrated I can't act a little pissed off.

But back to the point for a female being attacked -, I think its important to be able to muster some level of aggression/anger/animal nature if attacked. My youngest one is almost 9 and I think at some point she needs to know how to muster some aggressive spirit if facing attack form a boy. I can say she was punched by a boy recently in the chest at school, and generally did not break down or crumble in tears. She did not seem upset because she experiences punching in class. I just wonder what would have happened if the boy kept at it and started to hurt or scare her - would muscle memory kick in, could she muster a "Not today M'Fer" growl back and start in ? How to develop that in a sweet person ? I think the womens self defense classes focus on that - swearing, yelling back, getting your warrior on - and only very basic techniques - where as my daughter's normal class is 95% all techniques. Then again she is big like her daddy - so any boy her age is going to get a shock if the aggression comes out.:)
 
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crazydiamond said:
How to develop that in a sweet person ?
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I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding female nature. It isn't a case of being sweet ( sorry but do you have to class her as sweet? it's somewhat of an anodyne description for a girl, I'd want to be described as well rounded, a decent person, pleasant natured not sweet which sounds twee) OR being aggressive. Females are more than capable of being all sorts of things, being aggressive is not being 'not sweet'.
What girls need is people to treat them as people not nice little girls, they need to be taught self confidence, to speak up, to be what they want to be. It's perfectly fine for females to be aggressive, why shouldn't it be yet it's spoken of here as being the opposite of 'sweet', it's not.
For female self defence there's a lot that comes into play, more than techniques, more than being told to dress 'nicely', not to drink etc.

crazydiamond said:
The instructor aggressively shoves and says he is going to hurt and looks mean (he is formal military guy so he does it convincingly) - and you either turtle, go weak...or show some teeth and swear back.
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If he did that to me in training I'd laugh in his face. I have been threatened by a lot of people, men and women, military and non military in the course of my job. I neither fold nor shout back, there are proper techniques for dealing with this sort of aggression, showing teeth may not be the best way to deal with the situation. Knowing what is the best way to deal with situations is one of the best defences you can have. Confidence in your own abilities after an honest assessment of what you know and what you can do is something we should all have.
I am a 'cold' fighter, I don't blow up, don't get angry, don't get a red mist, I attack coldly and with purpose. Screaming at someone about to attack may be useful for some but it doesn't work for me. I prefer to save my energy, it could be that your daughter is the same. We aren't all the same. Also if you think females have to be taught aggression then you are very much mistaken lol.

There is a lot written by very experienced instructors such as Geoff Thompson about defending yourself etc. I'm sure other posters can also recommend good sources also.
 
Tez3 said:
I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding female nature. It isn't a case of being sweet ( sorry but do you have to class her as sweet? it's somewhat of an anodyne description for a girl, I'd want to be described as well rounded, a decent person, pleasant natured not sweet which sounds twee) OR being aggressive. Females are more than capable of being all sorts of things, being aggressive is not being 'not sweet'.
What girls need is people to treat them as people not nice little girls, they need to be taught self confidence, to speak up, to be what they want to be. It's perfectly fine for females to be aggressive, why shouldn't it be yet it's spoken of here as being the opposite of 'sweet', it's not.
For female self defence there's a lot that comes into play, more than techniques, more than being told to dress 'nicely', not to drink etc.




If he did that to me in training I'd laugh in his face. I have been threatened by a lot of people, men and women, military and non military in the course of my job. I neither fold nor shout back, there are proper techniques for dealing with this sort of aggression, showing teeth may not be the best way to deal with the situation. Knowing what is the best way to deal with situations is one of the best defences you can have. Confidence in your own abilities after an honest assessment of what you know and what you can do is something we should all have.
I am a 'cold' fighter, I don't blow up, don't get angry, don't get a red mist, I attack coldly and with purpose. Screaming at someone about to attack may be useful for some but it doesn't work for me. I prefer to save my energy, it could be that your daughter is the same. We aren't all the same. Also if you think females have to be taught aggression then you are very much mistaken lol.

There is a lot written by very experienced instructors such as Geoff Thompson about defending yourself etc. I'm sure other posters can also recommend good sources also.
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I understand her nature very well - not primarily because she is a girl but because she is my child. I dont mean that in a "I know her because she lives with me" but on a much deeper level that ties me and my family lines together. I was raised by a single mom, have sisters, all my kids have been female - numerous relationships not that it makes me an expert in women. But I was a "sweet" boy when younger - maybe you and I don't share understanding of what that word means.

You will notice in my posts I mention my own challenges - as a man - in what I would call a certain fighting spirit - or standing up to aggression and pushing back. I have read many books on violence and self defense from recommended experts in the field - the nature of violence and how to deal with it. It was a difficult process for me to think about this nature.

If you assumed I was speaking about all females - I was not. You are correct what works for some would not work for others. I know what my daughter needs to develop - she will never be able to "attack coldly and with purpose" or "Laugh at some one shouting in anger at her". She needs to be able to whip up a "not to day M'fer !" spirit when under threat or hurt. Just like the female in this news event.
 
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For discussion, I wonder what you guys think of instilling the will to fight back when considering that sexual assault is often perpetrated by someone known to the victim. In this case, it was a stranger, but this is the exception to the rule. It's one thing to say, "not today mother f'er." To a stranger, but to say it to your uncle or cousin or boss or boyfriend is something else.
 
Steve said:
For discussion, I wonder what you guys think of instilling the will to fight back when considering that sexual assault is often perpetrated by someone known to the victim. In this case, it was a stranger, but this is the exception to the rule. It's one thing to say, "not today mother f'er." To a stranger, but to say it to your uncle or cousin or boss or boyfriend is something else.
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That's an area I'm not qualified to help with.
 
Steve said:
For discussion, I wonder what you guys think of instilling the will to fight back when considering that sexual assault is often perpetrated by someone known to the victim. In this case, it was a stranger, but this is the exception to the rule. It's one thing to say, "not today mother f'er." To a stranger, but to say it to your uncle or cousin or boss or boyfriend is something else.
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This is why I try to strip the emotion from the task of applying self defense.
 
crazydiamond said:
If you assumed I was speaking about all females
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Actually I wasn't thinking that. I'm just not sure if you realise that calling a girl sweet isn't helping her in the world. I am also a Guide and Brownie leader, I know girls and they wince when called sweet even the youngest Rainbows do, it holds them back from being themselves in a way that perhaps most people don't understand. I'm sure she is a credit to you and has a lovely nature but by calling her sweet you are pushing her into a category that invites dismissal by the outside world. You also don't know what will push her buttons to make her fight. I've seen people who you would not normally say boo to a goose turn into a raging monster because their child was attacked or their best mate etc.

I think also you aren't understanding that training, training and more training gives people the optimum chances for survival in situations, not turning into a fight monster or aggressive pitbull. You don't need an aggressive nature, you need to be confident that your techniques work, I wouldn't worry about whether you have the 'right nature' but rather concentrate on your training and your self confidence so that you know you can handle situations. It's not my nature that makes me a cold fighter, it's training over many years with really good people.
 
Steve said:
For discussion, I wonder what you guys think of instilling the will to fight back when considering that sexual assault is often perpetrated by someone known to the victim. In this case, it was a stranger, but this is the exception to the rule. It's one thing to say, "not today mother f'er." To a stranger, but to say it to your uncle or cousin or boss or boyfriend is something else.
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sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

I have bashed people on the job I have know and even liked. It kind of sucks.
 
Tez3 said:
Actually I wasn't thinking that. I'm just not sure if you realise that calling a girl sweet isn't helping her in the world. I am also a Guide and Brownie leader, I know girls and they wince when called sweet even the youngest Rainbows do, it holds them back from being themselves in a way that perhaps most people don't understand. I'm sure she is a credit to you and has a lovely nature but by calling her sweet you are pushing her into a category that invites dismissal by the outside world. You also don't know what will push her buttons to make her fight. I've seen people who you would not normally say boo to a goose turn into a raging monster because their child was attacked or their best mate etc.

I think also you aren't understanding that training, training and more training gives people the optimum chances for survival in situations, not turning into a fight monster or aggressive pitbull. You don't need an aggressive nature, you need to be confident that your techniques work, I wouldn't worry about whether you have the 'right nature' but rather concentrate on your training and your self confidence so that you know you can handle situations. It's not my nature that makes me a cold fighter, it's training over many years with really good people.
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Calling someone "sweet" is no more confining than calling them "bold". It's a personality descriptor, and any descriptor can be confining, as we tend to live up to them, at least a little. And while "sweet" may carry some gender-specific baggage, I suspect you'd find little boys rankle at it, as well.

If it is an accurate descriptor, however, I don't think there's anything wrong with using it.
 
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