Scheduled testing versus Random testing

[Seig]

I am continuing this from another thread.

What does your new TV have to do with grading? Surely holding a grading when you feel like it is more akin to financial motivations than gradings at set intervals. And do you really consider Shorinji Kempo to be a McDojo? The syllabus isn't just about technique; sensei looks at your attitude, your control, your contributions, and a whole lot of other things before saying that you're ready to grade. People can't gauge their own process as well as Sensei can; he has perspective and ability based on experience. The belt system is necessary because its when you move up a grade that the new syllabus is introduced.

What does my new TV have to do with grading? It has been my experience in a great many schools that I have visited that the "scheduled" testing coincided with ballon payments, lay-away pick ups, etc... I have "grading" set up so that when someone finishes the syllabus for thebelt level, regardless of how long it took them, they get the formal test. I watch my people every day, I know where they are. The "grading" is a formality. Do I consider Shorinji-Kempo to be a McDojo? No, I consider it to be a system. Are there Shorinji-Kempo McDojos, probably; as there are also American Kenpo McDojos. Did I say your school was? No, I have never been there so can form no educated opinon on it. From your description, your sensei seems to be an intelligent and well rounded man. I agree with your statements about the instructor. I feel I have that same perspective with my people. As far as the belt system goes, you can introduce material when it is appropriate, belt rank really does not dictate that. I didn't say I don't use or don't like the belt ranking system, I said I feel it is largely unnecessary. The reality of belt ranks should be this: I should be able to look at a student's belt and have a fair idea of where he is ability, knowledge, and skill wise. Unfortunately that is not always the case. My people grade when I tell them they are ready.

 

[lvwhitebir]

I have both kinds of testing, I guess, all in one. I have tests scheduled once every month. If a student is ready to test, I allow him/her to. It is scheduled in the sense that a student knows when the testing will be (not a pop quiz) and is random in the sense that the student tests when ready, not at a specified time.

Do I fail students? Very rarely. Because if they're not ready, I won't even let them test; no need to make them look stupid. If I have seen them perform well outside of the test date, but during the test they don't perform well, I generally pass them with limitations; I tell them we'll work on the trouble spots a little before proceeding with the new rank requirements.

WhiteBirch

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by Seig
The reality of belt ranks should be this: I should be able to look at a student's belt and have a fair idea of where he is ability, knowledge, and skill wise. Unfortunately that is not always the case.

Very true. Imagine your running a traditional karate dojo, and you have two students standing before you, Joe and Jill. Both have been there six months, and are yellow belts. Both have "roughly" the same amount of athletic ability, are in decent shape, and come to class regularly. Jill, however, trained in TKD (or kickboxing, kenpo, or whatever - point is, a striking art) for 5 years before coming to your school. My guess is that Jill knows more than Joe, but it would be impossible to know that simply by looking at the belts.

What about totally informal tests? I've been to schools where the sensei watches the student for about a week or so, and then decides whether or not to give them a new rank. No test needed. The student isn't even aware they are being tested. If anything, they don't get nervous.

 

[Michael Billings]

... you do not have all the available info.

I probably do it like Seig. No monthly test as this is a sure-fire McDojo money maker, that just irritates me. Maybe there is some benefit for those with huge kid's programs. You make sure nobody is lost in the shuffle.

Adult learning times vary with their abilities, time available to practice, intelligence, inclination, test anxiety, and a plethora of other variables. I have students who avoid testing like the plague. I allow this to some extent, until I feel like they have been sandbagging way too long. Likewise I have students who push the envelope and want to test ever couple of months. I do have a minimum time in grade, but it is not always set in stone ... especially if an outstanding student is working for it. Take the guy who lost his job, Kenpo was his life for a few months, did that show in his training? Certainly, should I hold him back due to lack of time in grade? I decided not to, but decide on a case by case basis.

OK, so what about regularly scheduled tests? I know Kenpo instructors, and I am sure there are others, who take a Saturday a month, and have no classes, they test ... and there is no charge since he would have been there teaching anyway. This is probably the exception not the rule, but I admire it.

I test as I see student's complete the material. If anything, I wait too long.

Oss

 

[progressivetactics]

I have monthly testing, and bi-annually tests.
We have an informal test every month. I test them on 1 or more of the requirements towards their next rank. I do this 1 on 1, or small groups of similar rank. I may call 1 person over, every 3 minutes to show me their 2 highest forms, and 1 low form. Then send them back to their normal class.

If they fail the 'test', They can do it again next month. No big deal. They dont loose 3 months waiting till it comes around again. Sometimes, I will sit and watch them during class while someone else is teaching, and grade from there.

Also, 2 times per year, we have a formal, infront of the board, test. With several black belt and master instructors. This is the full test. Breaking, written, oral, fighting, etc.

Just a way I found that I really like testing people.

 

[Cryozombie]

Originally posted by Seig
I am continuing this from another thread.

I have "grading" set up so that when someone finishes the syllabus for thebelt level, regardless of how long it took them, they get the formal test. I watch my people every day, I know where they are. The "grading" is a formality.

This is exactly how it is where we are too, and you know, we dont pay ANYTHING to test, only if we want to "register" our rank in japan...

 

[OULobo]

I have trained at three schools that rank and all had very diferent ways of testing.

One school didn't test at all. The formal rank up to black was just given to you when you instructor thought you were at that level. To test for black though requires a two day long camp with physical tests, tests on curriculum and even a paper due and community service.

The second school had random testing. The insturctor would never tell you when or give you an idea of if you were even up for promotion. He would just walk up to you with a clipboard one day and say "You are testing . . .now. Come with me." This was nice because it insured you could summon the required knowledge at any time, but it required the test be a little lenient because of the inability to prepare.

The third school was very traditional, but strict. They told you when you were going to test 3-6 months ahead and expected you to know everything on the syllabus. If you missed a technique they gave you a couple trys to fix it and if you still couldn't get it you failed.

I do attend a school that has traditional testing but is very loose. You need to have and be able to demonstrate the knowledge, but the instructor has the final say. Often times he would accept similar techniques or would give you some slack if you were a good sparrer, had good freestyle or just worked hard. This causes some divide in the school because even though people pass they may not know everything they should at the level they should.

The rest of the schools I have trained at have no rank. The only thing that comes close is being given the nod to teach or given the okay to start a school/give a seminar.

 

[theletch1]

The second school had random testing. The insturctor would never tell you when or give you an idea of if you were even up for promotion. He would just walk up to you with a clipboard one day and say "You are testing . . .now. Come with me." This was nice because it insured you could summon the required knowledge at any time, but it required the test be a little lenient because of the inability to prepare

I like that idea. You'd have to know your material and be comfortable enough to recall it at a moments notice. As for the testing having to be lenient because of a lack of prep time.... no one on the street is gonna say "Hey, man, I'm gonna attack you in this alley next saturday night so go get ready."

My aikido school does not have a set schedule of promotions. You test when the sensei feels that you are ready to do so. There are months when no testing takes place at all. Notification is normally given 1 to 2 weeks prior to the test. I've seen a few students be passed over for grading for various reasons... having big trouble with techniques, not grasping theory, hit and miss attendance and so on. It's rare (but does happen) that anyone fails a grading. If you aren't more than ready then you just don't test formally. Every class is a mini test in its own way. You just don't get the pretty colored belt to go with it.:shrug:

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by theletch1
I like that idea. You'd have to know your material and be comfortable enough to recall it at a moments notice. As for the testing having to be lenient because of a lack of prep time.... no one on the street is gonna say "Hey, man, I'm gonna attack you in this alley next saturday night so go get ready."

(this may sound sarcatic, but I'm not trying to be an ***) No one on the street is going to care if you are ranked or not either. That's why in my opinion ranks are only for the school anyway. That's why no instructor I ever had advises bowing to a street thug before a confrontation. Most confrontations I've been in I would only use 3 or 4 techniques anyway (reactionary techniques), I wouldn't mentally scan my repetoir of techniques, like in a random test. The lowest rank with a really good roundhouse and left cross could come out of a street fight just as easily as a well trained instructor.

I definitly agree that every day is a test in and of itself. :asian:

 

[KenpoTess]

reviving a thread