Rokas Is Coming for the Military

[Urban Trekker]

He's doing a livestream on YouTube right now; I'm starting from the beginning because I missed the first 45 minutes.

This time, he's taking shots at the military. On the thumbnail, it says "Military martial arts don't work." Not bad, right?

But then he goes hard with a title that says "The military has a blackbelt in bullshido."

The focus appears to be on the British military.

Let's check it out and post our thoughts here.

 

[Graywalker]

He's doing a livestream on YouTube right now; I'm starting from the beginning because I missed the first 45 minutes.

This time, he's taking shots at the military. On the thumbnail, it says "Military martial arts don't work." Not bad, right?

But then he goes hard with a title that says "The military has a blackbelt in bullshido."

The focus appears to be on the British military.

Let's check it out and post our thoughts here.

I read a statistic, that stated military and Leo, when engaging in hand to hand combat, only had a 51% survival rate.

I need to find that article again.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah. A lot of it is rubbish.

Scars is a really good example.

All magic instructors and the deadly streets.

FightingArts.com - Forty Hours of SCARS: An Exclusive Look Inside the Worlds Most Expensive Self-defense Training

An introduction to the Navy Seal fighting system

www.fightingarts.com

(By the way. The cost. My God what are they doing? )

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The primary martial arts trained in the military are concerned with usage of tools like rifles, artillery, grenades, machine guns, tanks, helicopters, submarines, fighter jets, communications, transportation, logistics, etc. Well established military organizations, such as the British military have proven to be very effective with these martial (in the literal sense of the word) arts.

If Rokas is talking about unarmed hand-to-hand combat, this is a miniscule part of the training for a modern soldier. Like, less than .1% of the required training time would be typical. To the extent that unarmed combat is trained, it’s as much for developing fighting spirit and fitness as it is for actual application on the battlefield. Simply put, if a soldier is in the position of engaging the enemy hand-to-hand without weapons, something has gone seriously wrong. (I’d lay bets that most soldiers get more hand-to-hand fighting experience in barrooms than on the battlefield.)

I don’t know what sort of hand-to-hand training is typically given in the British military. The systems currently used by the U.S. miltary (MACP for the Army, MCMAP for marines, I don’t know about the navy or Air Force) is pretty much just some fundamentals of BJJ, MMA & FMA with some situational modifiers. In the past, there have been programs built around basics of boxing, wrestling, Judo, or jujutsu. There’s nothing particularly wrong with such programs except that most soldiers won’t spend enough time training to develop significant reliable skills. This is because such skills generally aren’t an important priority.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Yeah. A lot of it is rubbish.

Scars is a really good example.

All magic instructors and the deadly streets.

FightingArts.com - Forty Hours of SCARS: An Exclusive Look Inside the Worlds Most Expensive Self-defense Training

An introduction to the Navy Seal fighting system

www.fightingarts.com

(By the way. The cost. My God what are they doing? )

I agree, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it "bullshido."

Bullshido is something that's presented as being more or other than what it really is.

Military members don't need to be on the same level as MMA fighters or TMA black belts. In war, the primary method of defeating the enemy is through military weapons. If a military has to resort to hand-to-hand combat, then their country's government has seriously failed them. I think hand-to-hand combat training is supposed to be for temporary situations, such as someone dropping their rifle and having to defend themselves until they're able to retrieve it.

Now if they're telling you that Army Combatives or MCMAP is just as good as MMA training, that would be different.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I would think it rare to find an unarmed soldier. At a minimum there will be a good blade to use.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I would think it rare to find an unarmed soldier. At a minimum there will be a good blade to use.

I think it's safe to say that if a soldier is fighting with their bare hands, a whole lot of things have gone wrong.

 

[drop bear]

I agree, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it "bullshido."

Bullshido is something that's presented as being more or other than what it really is.

Military members don't need to be on the same level as MMA fighters or TMA black belts. In war, the primary method of defeating the enemy is through military weapons. If a military has to resort to hand-to-hand combat, then their country's government has seriously failed them. I think hand-to-hand combat training is supposed to be for temporary situations, such as someone dropping their rifle and having to defend themselves until they're able to retrieve it.

Now if they're telling you that Army Combatives or MCMAP is just as good as MMA training, that would be different.

Mcmap and army combatives are literally light years ahead of some of the the stuff the military do though.

And is a fairly modern development.

Look up line training. Or defendo. Even krav. There has been some lemons given to the military in regards to hand to hand combat.

 

[drop bear]

I would think it rare to find an unarmed soldier. At a minimum there will be a good blade to use.

They are encouraged to kill less people these days because it is more of an urban setting and not a world war 2 trench.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

I dont even know where you would find sufficent information on the modern U.K's miltiary comabtives program/s. Based on defendu, but its obviously changed, and the U.K is pretty secreative in what it releases in this regard. Last i recall only the commandos do it as any sort of noramlity. (milling is not a martial art)

 

[Urban Trekker]

I dont even know where you would find sufficent information on the modern U.K's miltiary comabtives program/s. Based on defendu, but its obviously changed, and the U.K is pretty secreative in what it releases in this regard. Last i recall only the commandos do it as any sort of noramlity. (milling is not a martial art)

If a security clearance is not required to receive the training, it's definitely out there.

 

[Tez3]

Well, this made me smile. Bear in mind British squaddies as well as many in the other services are always up for a decent fight, as both the civilian and military police will tell you. They don't need to be taught that.
So called hand to hand fighting instruction isn't a big part of military training as we have the RAF who you can call on for an air strike or send a drone .
Bayonet training is still taught because it's a good training exercise, milling is a test, not of fighting skills but of courage and willingness to get stuck in.
The RMs, Paras and SF have their own training as they are likely to be the only military who'd need to be able to actually fight someone in a combat situation. It's based on killing your opponent quickly, quietly and with as least effort as possible therefore is less hand to hand and more slit the throat from behind.

MMA and TMA is popular in the military, they are seen as sports though. In our club we teach both, one CO encourages his soldiers to do MMA in the vain hope it stops his troops fighting civvies but it is a Scottish regiment so a bit of a vain one hope. Boxing is a big army sport, not a huge lot of skill but plenty of aggression lol.

We've got some good pro MMA fighters in the military though deployments get in the way. Sometimes though deployments can be good for training, some of our martial arts students trained with some American soldiers who were wrestlers, gave them new skills which they passed on when they came back.

On the other hand not all our students come back, we lost two in Afghan.

 

[Tez3]

I agree, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it "bullshido."

Bullshido is something that's presented as being more or other than what it really is.

Military members don't need to be on the same level as MMA fighters or TMA black belts. In war, the primary method of defeating the enemy is through military weapons. If a military has to resort to hand-to-hand combat, then their country's government has seriously failed them. I think hand-to-hand combat training is supposed to be for temporary situations, such as someone dropping their rifle and having to defend themselves until they're able to retrieve it.

Now if they're telling you that Army Combatives or MCMAP is just as good as MMA training, that would be different.

Our tankies say that if they have to use their personal weapons something has gone desperately wrong.

The Gurkhas on the other hand rather relish a good hand to hand tussle. They are very likely to bring the heads back though.

 

[drop bear]

Anyway. Here is the link. I haven't gone through it yet.

 

[Tez3]

Anyway. Here is the link. I haven't gone through it yet.

Well that was a load of bollocks.

I'm checking to see if this guy is actually in the army or a Walt.

The army doesn't teach martial arts as a military subject, they are regarded as sports just like rugby, triathlon etc. Sport is important as it carries value for team building fitness etc. not military skills as such. Wednesday afternoon is sports afternoon lol.
If this guy is who he says he is, he's in the Royal Artillery which does what it says on the tin, fires big guns and uses Rapier missiles etc. They don't do combat they are way behind any 'frontline'.

There's actually little secrecy about 'martial arts' in the military here, there's no set 'style' as the US Marines seem to have. Modern warfare is different now, the training reflects that. The SFs as I've already said do their thing, they do whatever works (not Defendo btw that's advertising blurb from Defendo people).

if you search online you'll find the videos of the wartime commandos and SOE training hand to hand etc. That's interesting. I wonder if people think that is still taught?

 

[Tez3]

Ok, still waiting for gen on this guy, but looking up what he's said he's done he would have been here at Catterick Garrison where the unit he was/is on is based. He's never been near the Garrison Martial Arts Club that's for sure we do have some Gunners in but they've always said they were either doing martial arts for sport before or complete beginners, no one has said the army taught them anything. Provost staff do control and restraint training as the RMP do.

Sometimes the army will do 'Northern Ireland' training ie riot training including snatch squad training depending on need.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Anyway. Here is the link. I haven't gone through it yet.

"Have you actually seen a Sensai ask a student, what's your background and can you teach me this?" (1:33)

I've seen this quite a bit in the circles I run in. I think they call it sharing martial arts knowledge.

Any martial arts teacher of worth understands. That their students may be new to the school and the school's system, but not new to martial arts. Having students with additional martial arts background is a good thing for Martial Arts teachers.

2 minutes I won't get back lol

 

[Deleted member 39746]

If a security clearance is not required to receive the training, it's definitely out there.

Its a niche thing that would have only been devoloped recently so still covered mainly by current protections. If it existed im sure i would have seen a commercially avalible reprint of a U.K manual on hand to hand comabt, but the closest i have is from WW2 and fairbairns books.

Granted not much of a market for U.K reprints like the U.S army manuals you see dotted around, but i say that yet have found some quite niche books from WW2.

Best you have and i think the bulk of people would find is the commando display team and they even preface it with "some of its for display useage" so you dont really know whats taught like that or for display. Actually inspired me to have a look around to see what the most recent manuals that have been released are, if i remmber i will post results here.

I have how ever just recalled some footage i saw somone post of a training event where they had a hall clearing and included grappling, but i dont know if thats a "system" or just try to lever them with your rifle, keep them off it and throw them to the ground. (which i think is movements taught in bayonet fighting) Was a breif clip and what he did is uncelar and i dont recall the video it was in.

 

[Tez3]

Its a niche thing that would have only been devoloped recently so still covered mainly by current protections. If it existed im sure i would have seen a commercially avalible reprint of a U.K manual on hand to hand comabt, but the closest i have is from WW2 and fairbairns books.

Granted not much of a market for U.K reprints like the U.S army manuals you see dotted around, but i say that yet have found some quite niche books from WW2.

Best you have and i think the bulk of people would find is the commando display team and they even preface it with "some of its for display useage" so you dont really know whats taught like that or for display. Actually inspired me to have a look around to see what the most recent manuals that have been released are, if i remmber i will post results here.

I have how ever just recalled some footage i saw somone post of a training event where they had a hall clearing and included grappling, but i dont know if thats a "system" or just try to lever them with your rifle, keep them off it and throw them to the ground. (which i think is movements taught in bayonet fighting) Was a breif clip and what he did is uncelar and i dont recall the video it was in.

The RM display team is just that, it's for recruiting and public relations just like the Red Arrows. It doesn't mean it's not real though.

If you want to know more about RM look up Martin '50 Cal' Stapleton the MMA fighter on FB or Instagram and ask him, hugely knowledgeable.

 

[drop bear]

Well that was a load of bollocks.

I'm checking to see if this guy is actually in the army or a Walt.

The army doesn't teach martial arts as a military subject, they are regarded as sports just like rugby, triathlon etc. Sport is important as it carries value for team building fitness etc. not military skills as such. Wednesday afternoon is sports afternoon lol.
If this guy is who he says he is, he's in the Royal Artillery which does what it says on the tin, fires big guns and uses Rapier missiles etc. They don't do combat they are way behind any 'frontline'.

There's actually little secrecy about 'martial arts' in the military here, there's no set 'style' as the US Marines seem to have. Modern warfare is different now, the training reflects that. The SFs as I've already said do their thing, they do whatever works (not Defendo btw that's advertising blurb from Defendo people).

if you search online you'll find the videos of the wartime commandos and SOE training hand to hand etc. That's interesting. I wonder if people think that is still taught?

He claims there is no hand to hand system. Exept the bayonet course.

If some decide to spend their free time boxing, playing rugby or doing pilates. That would not be a Combatives system.

Unlike a Mc Map or Army Combative or Kenetic fighting.

So is there a system? And what does it consist of?