Review of different styles of defence

I do spar and have sparred with people who aren't flincy. lol
 
JowGaWolf said:
I do spar and have sparred with people who aren't flincy. lol
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OK.

So here you see guys takinging multiple shots to the head. The return shots work but it is a cumulative process of scoring hits while reducing their own head as a target.

It is almost never a case where a shot is blocked and the return upsets that combination. Unless it is light sparring.
 
drop bear said:
OK.

So here you see guys takinging multiple shots to the head. The return shots work but it is a cumulative process of scoring hits while reducing their own head as a target.

It is almost never a case where a shot is blocked and the return upsets that combination. Unless it is light sparring.
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The technique works better when not light sparring. When people are trying to hit you in the face with all of their power then they are fully committed. This means that the person is most likely to overextend with their punches than someone who is just light sparring. The more commitment that someone puts into an attack the better it is for me and the better I'm able to read the movements.

Those guys are taking multiple shots to the head because they fighting with a low guard and neither one of them utilizes a parry, a jam, or a redirect.
 
JowGaWolf said:
The technique works better when not light sparring. When people are trying to hit you in the face with all of their power then they are fully committed. This means that the person is most likely to overextend with their punches than someone who is just light sparring. The more commitment that someone puts into an attack the better it is for me and the better I'm able to read the movements.

Those guys are taking multiple shots to the head because they fighting with a low guard and neither one of them utilizes a parry, a jam, or a redirect.
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Yes it is surprising the amount of Parry's jams and redirects that don't get used as the fighters skill levels increase.
 
drop bear said:
Yes it is surprising the amount of Parry's jams and redirects that don't get used as the fighters skill levels increase.
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They use them in professional fights. I just don't think they train them and because of that they aren't as effective as they could be with them. Effective parrying requires some really good timing. Aggressive parrying, which is what I do, requires good timing and the ability to turn a parry into a jam. It's full commitment even if the timing is off and a punch isn't thrown.

Here you can see Bisping use soft parry being used (I don't use those). He also does some jamming as well. In round 2 you can see Silva move his hands like crazy and that's because of the light parry.

The way that Kung fu utilizes the parry is to draw the punch and parry hard for the purpose of moving the attacking hand into the path of the other punch. Say you want to throw a 1-2 jab combo at me. I would draw your first jab and parry it into the path of your second jab. The end result is that you end up punching your own hand or arm and not me. The other end result is that you have to punch over the arm that I'm pushing in the way. If can parry the first arm there's no way you can get that second shot off clean. Most people make the mistake of parrying the fist which is not the most effective way to parry. There's little room for error when you parry the fist. I parry the punch before it's straight, that way I'll still parry the fist if I'm too slow.

The difficult part is picking up on the slight movement that comes before a punch. That's the part that takes training, time, patience. It won't work if I'm flinchy like Bisping was. I have to pick the right time and the right punch in order to make it work.
 
Touch Of Death said:
Reminds not to walk into a boxing gym to pick a fight, but so?
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It is time and space. If you have loads of it between one punch and another. You can get more creative with your blocks.

As that decreases you are less able to utilise those sorts of entries.

Good defence will work against crap striking and good striking. This block run up the arm business relies on you being a considerably better striker than the other guy.
 
JowGaWolf said:
They use them in professional fights. I just don't think they train them and because of that they aren't as effective as they could be with them. Effective parrying requires some really good timing. Aggressive parrying, which is what I do, requires good timing and the ability to turn a parry into a jam. It's full commitment even if the timing is off and a punch isn't thrown.

Here you can see Bisping use soft parry being used (I don't use those). He also does some jamming as well. In round 2 you can see Silva move his hands like crazy and that's because of the light parry.

The way that Kung fu utilizes the parry is to draw the punch and parry hard for the purpose of moving the attacking hand into the path of the other punch. Say you want to throw a 1-2 jab combo at me. I would draw your first jab and parry it into the path of your second jab. The end result is that you end up punching your own hand or arm and not me. The other end result is that you have to punch over the arm that I'm pushing in the way. If can parry the first arm there's no way you can get that second shot off clean. Most people make the mistake of parrying the fist which is not the most effective way to parry. There's little room for error when you parry the fist. I parry the punch before it's straight, that way I'll still parry the fist if I'm too slow.

The difficult part is picking up on the slight movement that comes before a punch. That's the part that takes training, time, patience. It won't work if I'm flinchy like Bisping was. I have to pick the right time and the right punch in order to make it work.
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Not really. The way a good fighter makes this work is they limit the other guys options until he strikes in a manner that can be taken advantage of.

Then when that fighter controls the position he can utilise a move like a block counter.

So as a technique used at the right time it will work. But as a staple defence its application becomes limited.
 
Worked with a lot of boxers, a lot of kick boxers, some kung fu guys, more different styled karate guys than I can possibly remember. I've sparred with a lot of fathers, and years later with their full grown sons.

I don't recall any two guys that blocked exactly alike.
 
drop bear said:
If you are fighting so long that a bruised forearm makes a difference. You have bigger problems.
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I was thinking more of when a shot lands right on the nerve and the arm goes dead.

drop bear said:
Yes it is surprising the amount of Parry's jams and redirects that don't get used as the fighters skill levels increase.
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Not really. The only areas we can easily access high level fighters are combat sports, which by and and large are temples of orthodoxy. There's one or two ways of doing things which are tried and tested so why waste time and take punishment developing other methods when all the wisdom of the sport tells you that X works and everything else doesn't.
 
DaveB said:
I was thinking more of when a shot lands right on the nerve and the arm goes dead.



Not really. The only areas we can easily access high level fighters are combat sports, which by and and large are temples of orthodoxy. There's one or two ways of doing things which are tried and tested so why waste time and take punishment developing other methods when all the wisdom of the sport tells you that X works and everything else doesn't.
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You can fight with a broken arm. I have seen one arm clash that separated the muscle and crippled a guy. Otherwise it is a low risk of having your arm deadened.

And in general yes you should be using the method everybody else uses. That does not mean you can't deviate at some point. But as a base tried and true will get you further than innovation.

52 blocks tried it. I don't think it really went anywhere.
 
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drop bear said:
Otherwise it is a low risk of having your arm deadened.
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I think it's a higher risk because that same technique is found in multiple martial arts systems. I'm thinking this common technique may be an indication of how many people were getting messed up by the technique. It's no different from multiple fighting systems that have technique that uses a hook or a jab. It works. When certain nerves are struck you won't have any say over what happens next. It's not something a person can fight through or resist.

If I damage a nerve in your arm at a certain location then you won't be able to use that arm even if you wanted to. It won't be up to you if you want to fight with that arm because if the body can't send messages down that nerve then your arm won't move. That nerve is what allows you to use that arm. Looking at this image below. I think my Median Nerve was struck using that technique. Please keep in mind that in practice my school doesn't aim for this spot, but mistakes do happen. Thanks to my injury I now exactly where to target that specific nerve. As for bruising, I didn't feel that until a day or 2 later. From what I could tell by feeling my bruise it seems that the nerve is positioned right over the bone, so when it's struck, you are smashing it against the bone in the forearm.
h9991449_001.jpg

I found this on one of the medical website
Symptoms of a median nerve injury
Injuries below this may cause tingling or numbness in the forearm, thumb and the three adjacent fingers. Weakness with gripping and inability to move the thumb across the palm may also be experienced along with wasting of the muscles at the base of the thumb.

This one is from a karate site
Median Nerve - When struck at this point, an attacker will feel an excruciating pain shoot up his arm which will be temporarily disabled. Like the radial nerve, this is an effect nerve to aim for when trying to disarm an opponent. (the temporarily disabled portion is what experienced when my hand opened up on it's own and my arm went numb.)

Here's a medical study about striking nerves in the body
Traumatic Neuralgia From Pressure-Point Strikes in the Martial Arts: Results From a Retrospective Online Survey

This is the conclusion of the study
Symptoms of neurapraxia can occur in martial artists who use combat techniques that involve striking exposed portions of vulnerable nerves. The most commonly attacked areas reported in the present survey of martial artists were the arms and the head or neck. This finding is logical because these areas have many exposed nerves that lie under the targeted pressure points, such as the carotid sinus, distal median nerve, facial and trigeminal nerves, radial nerve branches, and ulnar nerve.
 
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