Review of different styles of defence

[drop bear]

The most important part of a "block" is the footwork, torso and head movement. The hands are icing on the cake IMO. The better your movement is, the less you have to rely on the hands/arms actually making contact.
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That pretty much.

Otherwise I cover rather than block because it is better able to keep up with faster movement due to not having to move your defence as much.

 

[drop bear]

It depends on what you are trying to do. If you are trying to block a punch and only block then either method will work. If you are trying to punish the attacking hand then only the blocks that go out and strike the wrist and forearms of the punch are going to be better.

You can cover and counter punch that effectively punishes the guy by punching in the face.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So I know 2 ways of blocking ...

There is a 3rd way of blocking.

If you can

- extend your arms,
- put your hands next to your opponent's hands, and
- circle your hands around his hands,

the moment you feel your opponent is going to punch you, the moment you use your hand to push on his wrist. You can interrupt his punch before he can have chance to generate power and speed. You can then enter after that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You can cover and counter punch that effectively punishes the guy by punching in the face.

Yeah I was only referring to the blocks. I practice the one that you are talking about and it's one of those techniques that make me wonder why I don't see it in MMA because it's a really simple, practical, and effective technique.

 

[DaveB]

I did shotokan for about two years the blocking is a stop action move it is vastly different then how internal Chinese arts deal with on coming force.

Shotokan is not an art that you learn in 2 years.

Much of the apparent rigidity in Japanese karate hides more subtle methods. The point of the rigidity is just physical training.

Covers as described by the op are the only kind of block that stops force. All forearm and palm blocks like those seen in karate are deflections as the force of the block is perpendicular to the force of the strike. If it doesn't look like a deflection it's usually because the power employed has collapsed the attacking limb.

However this is the most basic, fall back application of those movements, at least in Shotokan. Goju ryu blocks are quite different, relying on blending with the inbound force.

Shotokan techniques are taught one way because the art was standardised, but as you practice kata and learn to listen to your body you should begin to notice that subtle variations come out with the various transitions in the forms that produce different implications for the techniques.

Or you might just go to a seminar with someone who can show you...

But the bottom line is that you are mistaken about the nature of karate blocks.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Instead of blocking that punching arm, it's better to disable that punching arm.

With a sufficiently hard block you can do both at the same time.

 

[RTKDCMB]

How not to block a punch:

 

[HW1]

Simple forum question: "Do you prefer apple pie or blueberry pie?"
Forum's best answer: "I'd rather have cheesecake but when it's hot outside key lime pie is the best."

3 pages later everyone's discussing their favorite muffin recipe.

My answer to your question, I prefer the boxing guard better because it's the closest to what I train. I haven't done a karate block since I took Shorin Ryu 25 years ago.

 

[oaktree]

Shotokan is not an art that you learn in 2 years.

It is enough time to to have a basic understanding of the principles, If my sensei and his sensei and other videos are doing the same then its pretty much standard.

Much of the apparent rigidity in Japanese karate hides more subtle methods.

There is rigidity in all Japanese martial arts, its stiff, and square compared to Chinese internal arts. I think it is due to cultural differences and thinking which influcences the approach of martial arts. Chinese arts are like bamboo Japanese arts are like oak tree.

Covers as described by the op are the only kind of block that stops force. All forearm and palm blocks like those seen in karate are deflections as the force of the block is perpendicular to the force of the strike. If it doesn't look like a deflection it's usually because the power employed has collapsed the attacking limb.

If it is stopping the opponents strike from moving it is a block.
Block(verb)
"make the movement or flow in (a passage, pipe, road, etc.) difficult or impossible."
Blocking (martial arts) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In Baguazhang we do not do this type of movment when someone strikes us because it prevents flowing,
I may parry
: to turn aside an opponent's weapon or blow. to evade.

However this is the most basic, fall back application of those movements, at least in Shotokan. Goju ryu blocks are quite different, relying on blending with the inbound force.

I have also visited a Kyokushin school and again they block hard preventing the opponents arm from moving.
In Chinese internal arts we may hit the arm but we do not stop the opponents movment because we attach to it listening to his next movement as we start to apply ours.

Shotokan techniques are taught one way because the art was standardised, but as you practice kata and learn to listen to your body you should begin to notice that subtle variations come out with the various transitions in the forms that produce different implications for the techniques.

I am sure this could be said for most arts as you advance in them.

But the bottom line is that you are mistaken about the nature of karate blocks.

Here is the differences

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Methods of defending against strikes:

• Being out of range
• Moving out of range
• Evading at an angle
• Evading in place (i.e. head movement or pivoting)
• Moving in to jam the strike
• Stop-hit
• Hard block to stop the strike in place (this can be done as a damaging strike to the limb)
• Redirecting/parrying just enough to make the strike miss
• Redirecting/parrying with a damaging strike
• Redirecting/parrying with some extra movement to pull the opponent off balance or spin him out of alignment
• Passive covering
• Spiking the attacking limb
• Wrapping the attacking limb in preparation for a grappling technique

Many of these methods can (and should) be combined with each other and with counter-striking. All of them are important and useful when used at the right moment. I don't personally use the hard blocks very much, but I respect them as a valid approach in their proper place. Just about all the others are in my repertoire.

 

[JowGaWolf]

How not to block a punch:

Lol he must really hate his students lol

 

[Tony Dismukes]

How not to block a punch:

 

[DaveB]

It is enough time to to have a basic understanding of the principles, If my sensei and his sensei and other videos are doing the same then its pretty much standard.

There is rigidity in all Japanese martial arts, its stiff, and square compared to Chinese internal arts. I think it is due to cultural differences and thinking which influcences the approach of martial arts. Chinese arts are like bamboo Japanese arts are like oak tree.


If it is stopping the opponents strike from moving it is a block.
Block(verb)
"make the movement or flow in (a passage, pipe, road, etc.) difficult or impossible."
Blocking (martial arts) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In Baguazhang we do not do this type of movment when someone strikes us because it prevents flowing,
I may parry
: to turn aside an opponent's weapon or blow. to evade.

I have also visited a Kyokushin school and again they block hard preventing the opponents arm from moving.
In Chinese internal arts we may hit the arm but we do not stop the opponents movment because we attach to it listening to his next movement as we start to apply ours.

I am sure this could be said for most arts as you advance in them.
Here is the differences

Oaktree, your post above has a lot of points that are either incorrect or just show what looks like inexperience.

I urge you to look over my previous post in more detail.

 

[oaktree]

Oaktree, your post above has a lot of points that are either incorrect or just show what looks like inexperience.

I urge you to look over my previous post in more detail.

I addressed your posts piece by piece. I may Not have a lot of experience in karate nor will I try to come off as that, I have enough in karate to validate the principles of a block as taught in shotokan I have posted videos from masters demonstrating the same thing I was taught. I have also done another similar Japanese style for 5 years which addresses dealing with defense with the same structural as found in karate, Daito ryu aikijujutsu and katori shinto ryu kenjutsu both going on about 2 years it's just how Japanese style are, and in my opinion reflects based on the culture. Chinese internal arts just have a more flexible approach when they apply things. If you don't think I am experienced enough to make a valid comment then I'm cool with that, there is a reason why I don't train in karate.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Chinese internal arts just have a more flexible approach when they apply things.

An upward block in XingYi is like to raise the curtain, you then walk underneath it. Since you should not just raise curtain for nothing, an upward block should always follow by a punch.

 

[Touch Of Death]

An upward block in XingYi is like to raise the curtain, you then walk underneath it. Since you should not just raise curtain for nothing, an upward block should always follow by a punch.

I could follow with the side take down.

 

[oaktree]

An upward block in XingYi is like to raise the curtain, you then walk underneath it. Since you should not just raise curtain for nothing, an upward block should always follow by a punch.

I am guessing are referring to pao chui,
That is a good question is pao chui a block, well the thought of Xingyiquan is there is no block only strike. Xingyiquan being the most external of the internal arts if we had to label it to illustrate a point. Can that movement be used to set up a qinna yes, can it be used to throw someone yes because it's not a block, it's a motion that is defined by what is given and adaptation. That is the beauty of Chinese internal arts it is not confined into this is for this but a freedom to even use the stomach as a leverage point to apply Qinna. I have seen in daito ryu aikijujutsu similar freedom but not to the extent of what Chinese arts do, a variation of seoi nage instead of using the shoulder using the top of your head(helment) in battle and throwing.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

the thought of Xingyiquan is there is no block only strike.

If you wait for your opponent to punch you, you then use your arm to interrupt his punch, that by definition is a block. If your opponent is on guard, you move in, use your arms to redirect your opponent's arms to be outside of your attacking path, to me, that's called "arm guiding".

The XiniYi Pao Chuan type of move also exists in the praying mantis system as well. Here is an example. You use one upward arm move to raise your opponent's leading arm, you then use another upward arm move to raise his back arm. This way his belly is exposed for your attacking. Of course if you use "double downward moves", you can expose your opponent head instead.

Whether it's called "blocking", or "arm guiding" depends on who attacks first.

 

[oaktree]

If you wait for your opponent to punch you, you then use your arm to interrupt his punch, that by definition is a block

Interrupt implies I stop the movement which yes is the definition of block to stop movement I agree. In Baguazhang when someone throws say a straight punch my arm goes in to meet his punch it is not to stop his movement but become his movement as my movement, the fingers are pointed towards his eyes, it is a strike in the sense that I am making contact, it is listening to where his arm wants to go and then redirecting it.

In Baguazhang there is no distinction between defense and offense there is only adaptation and taking what is presented.
If I want to say Daito ryu aikijujutsu ippon dori logon absolutely there is a block a moment where the opponent can not continue his force in the direction which is what a block is like a road block. In Baguazhang we don't want that road block, we want to use that force our opponent generate and use it against him.

By all means different styles have different approaches and perhaps the linguistics of it all creates the confusion. After all it's all pasta I guess.

 

[DaveB]

I addressed your posts piece by piece.

Yes but almost everything you said was wrong. Note, I'm not questioning your bagua knowledge or even that there are significant differences between Shotokan and bagua, just your understanding of Shotokan techniques and applications and the generalisations about Chinese and Japanese arts.

One thing you should probably remember is that karate doesn't come from Japan.