Review of different styles of defence

[oaktree]

Yes but almost everything you said was wrong. Note, I'm not questioning your bagua knowledge or even that there are significant differences between Shotokan and bagua, just your understanding of Shotokan techniques and applications and the generalisations about Chinese and Japanese arts.

One thing you should probably remember is that karate doesn't come from Japan.

Ok David, if you think I am incorrect you are welcome to your Opinion. About my generalization of Chinese and Japanese arts it is shared by others having been on this forum for years the consensus has come to that. As for karate coming from Japan some styles did as they were founded in Japan, but I guess it depends on how people want to classify things. Again I am not interested in karate or being taught to block baseball bats.

 

[Paul_D]

Do people still really teach this? Shuto is for striking the carotid sinus with the forearm. Karate only has blocks is you are teaching the childrens version of karate.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Do people still really teach this? Shuto is for striking the carotid sinus with the forearm. Karate only has blocks is you are teaching the childrens version of karate.

This is just some insight on Shuto.

From what I understand of the Shuto movement, It can be used to strike the carotid sinus but more effectively it can be used as block. Which is more practical than trying to hit the Carotid Sinus. In my opinion it is an advanced technique even though it's taught to kids. It looks basic and it's often performed without the understanding of what it's really doing. It's not until Karate practitioners get into the higher belts and higher conditioning that they begin to understand that block and the practicality. I'm not sure why this isn't explained in some karate schools. The reason I know it's not explained because they use it as if they are guiding the strike or redirecting it.

This technique is explained very early in Jow Ga Kung fu so when I see Karate use Shuto, I know what the applications of it is.

The forearm has a nerve exactly where that knife hand block is. It's a striking block and a redirection at the same time. The redirection comes from the striking. The purpose isn't to move the fist, but to damage the arm of the striking hand. The principle is exactly the same when it's used to strike the carotid sinus. The purpose is not to move the neck but to damage it. If you do Shuto correctly it will damage the attacking arm. If Shuto is done correctly and strikes the correct spot it will numb the attacking arm and cause the fist to open, which all makes it difficult to throw the second punch.

Can Shuto be used to strike the neck? Yes. Is that the only or the best application of Shuto? No. Kung Fu practitioners always (or should always) have a ready hand right around the area of the neck where where your strike would land. A person would be more likely to strike the guarding hand than the neck.

I take Kung Fu and would have no problem tearing your arm up with Shuto even though I don't practice that strike that way in Kung Fu.

 

[oaktree]

Do people still really teach this? Shuto is for striking the carotid sinus with the forearm. Karate only has blocks is you are teaching the childrens version of karate.

Yep taught that in karate saw other people doing it as well, read books watched videos saw other schools do the same as one type of block.

 

[DaveB]

Ok David, if you think I am incorrect you are welcome to your Opinion. About my generalization of Chinese and Japanese arts it is shared by others having been on this forum for years the consensus has come to that. As for karate coming from Japan some styles did as they were founded in Japan, but I guess it depends on how people want to classify things. Again I am not interested in karate or being taught to block baseball bats.

For someone who is the voice of the consensus you seem to have very little support.

And who on earth blocks baseball bats? If that is something you attribute to Shotokan you need to have a long talk with your sensei.

In truth though I understand why you have the view you have and it is more an issue with how the art was taught than any issue with you. Shotokan over emphasised repetition of basic techniques to preserve the mystical status of the senior dan's in Japan. To this day the only video you will find of ranking Japanese instructors show pure beginner interpretations of the core techniques. If you train in an orthodox club you will spend years doing the same.

But that doesn't mean that is all there is.

And that doesn't even touch on deep study of kata.

 

[Dirty Dog]

A block IS a strike. It's just aimed at the limb.

Paul_D, you dislike this statement, which is fine. But can I ask what part of it bothers you? Do you disagree that blocking involves striking the attackers limb?

 

[MAfreak]

So I know 2 ways of blocking one is a karate way where for example if someone throws a hook punch you'd do an outside block then if they throw a straight punch you'd use the same arm to do an inward block. The other style is the boxing or kickboxing way of keeping your guard up on either side and taking the hits on the arms as you roll with them. Which one do you guys think is more effective me personally i use a combination of both if someone is throwing 2 or 3 punches or kicks then I'll use the karate method if I'm getting overwhelmed ill use the boxing style more. This isn't a criticism of either style just seeing what the general opinions are as I've said I believe they're both effective

i mix this up too. when big hooks come in its just a habit to make the karate thing and it works. also when the opponent has a knife or stick its the only chance to block his forearms without getting your arms hit by the weapon. but normally i would recommend the boxing variation since the karate style won't work for big combinations or wild punching.

 

[JR 137]

i mix this up too. when big hooks come in its just a habit to make the karate thing and it works. also when the opponent has a knife or stick its the only chance to block his forearms without getting your arms hit by the weapon. but normally i would recommend the boxing variation since the karate style won't work for big combinations or wild punching.

The boxing method of blocking isn't exactly fool proof either. Boxers get KOed quite often.

 

[DaveB]

I'd say it is particularly risky (boxing method) if you are bare knuckle. Bruising to the muscles of the arm can really slow you down. Not a consideration if you have gloves I suppose.

 

[Touch Of Death]

i mix this up too. when big hooks come in its just a habit to make the karate thing and it works. also when the opponent has a knife or stick its the only chance to block his forearms without getting your arms hit by the weapon. but normally i would recommend the boxing variation since the karate style won't work for big combinations or wild punching.

The Karate method does work against a flurry, but the timing on it, is that you have to be first and final.

 

[drop bear]

I'd say it is particularly risky (boxing method) if you are bare knuckle. Bruising to the muscles of the arm can really slow you down. Not a consideration if you have gloves I suppose.

If you are fighting so long that a bruised forearm makes a difference. You have bigger problems.

And there are people who fight bare knuckle that we can see how they block.

Or suffer elbows or kicks.

 

[drop bear]

The Karate method does work against a flurry, but the timing on it, is that you have to be first and final.

Blocking faster than they punch?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you are fighting so long that a bruised forearm makes a difference. You have bigger problems.

Agree! If you have problem to block a punch, you will have serious problem to block a MT guy's roundhouse kick.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Blocking faster than they punch?

No, getting a strike in after blocking the first one, or, as you block the first one, if you are nasty.

 

[drop bear]

No, getting a strike in after blocking the first one, or, as you block the first one, if you are nasty.

So you see the strike. Recognise which hand to block with. Move your hand up to block. Move the other hand to strike. In the time it takes them to two three or for pre determined combinations.

It can be done. But it has to be the right sort of punch.

 

[Touch Of Death]

So you see the strike. Recognise which hand to block with. Move your hand up to block. Move the other hand to strike. In the time it takes them to two three or for pre determined combinations.

It can be done. But it has to be the right sort of punch.

With the blocking hand, you can track up the arm, an stick him in the throat; so, it is timing, and you make have the second one to deal with, but it get easier, if he is dying.

 

[Touch Of Death]

But you would return your motion to the side that poses the biggest threat.

 

[drop bear]

With the blocking hand, you can track up the arm, an stick him in the throat; so, it is timing, and you make have the second one to deal with, but it get easier, if he is dying.

The mechanics of defence and counter striking don't change regardless as to whether you are returning with a simple punch or the death strike of death.

You either have time to hit them and stop them hitting you or you don't.

You also can achieve the same counter by covering and returning on the same hand. But that is not really the issue here.

You still need to stop multiple fast strikes before he can throw them. Saying you are not only going to stop shots but also return shots in that time frame is a big bloody ask.

You have to be able to identify a single strike and capitalise on that before he does. This is doable. It is called counter punching. But you can only do this under certain conditions.

And a combination of strikes is generally not one of them.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You still need to stop multiple fast strikes before he can throw them.

You only have to stop or redirect one strike correctly and that will stop any attempt at a combination punch. I do this all the time with any person with very little problem. It just takes time to learn how to understand and identify the movements.

 

[drop bear]

You only have to stop or redirect one strike correctly and that will stop any attempt at a combination punch. I do this all the time with any person with very little problem. It just takes time to learn how to understand and identify the movements.

The guys you Spar are flinchy. Spar someone who isn't and Spar flat knacker and the dynamics change a bit.