Reperations

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
Why should just the black commuinity get free college? ToD?

That is racist? what about everyone else>?

Hey, I'm all for sending you to school too. BELIEVE ME; however, its more racist to sit back and watch the black community fail while we pat ourselves on the back for the trials and tribulations we went through to get where we are.

 

[J-kid]

Every one needs to go to school and everyone should have a equal chance no matter what skin color or gender.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
Every one needs to go to school and everyone should have a equal chance no matter what skin color or gender.

So, I gather your happy with the status Quo. Should we just let the chips fall where they may?

 

[J-kid]

No i agree some things need to change I believe everyone should start working harder towards the growth of the human race not just towards one race or one country. We need a uninefied goverment to fix things. We should be unified as one people!

 

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Hey, I'm all for sending you to school too. BELIEVE ME; however, its more racist to sit back and watch the black community fail while we pat ourselves on the back for the trials and tribulations we went through to get where we are.

So being racist against other races is ok as long as thier not black?

 

[Cryozombie]

I don't think sending Blacks to College for free is the answer either.

How about getting them (and everyone else including spoiled lazy privalaged white kids) INTERESTED in learning in High School??? Get them to graduate, and graduate with an EDUCATION, not just a piece of paper that they cannot read because they were passed to get them out of the system.

Where you go after highschool is up to you. I have almost NO secondary education beyond highschool and I do pretty well for myself. Am I rich? No! Do I struggle to pay my bills? Some months. But do i make more than enough to get by? Yep. I'm certainly not in danger of getting thrown out on my ***...

Why? Not because I got handouts.

I applyed myself for a few years in low level jobs to get experience. I took that experience and turned it into a better job.
I dont spend my money on Crack. (Thats's not a black thing BTW, THATS A PEOPLE THING)
I'm not snorting too much coke to pay my mortgage.
90% of my pay doesnt go twords alcohol.
I controlled my breeding and I am not paying child support on 10 kids. (My best friend can barley get by because HE has far too much child support to pay. He is, Incidenatly, College educated and the best job he can get right now is pouring coffee in the local mall. Not because they arent availible in his area, because he's too LAZY to get any others)

I could go ON and ON and ON But i feel It comes down to "Get a basic Education, and get MOTIVATED" and you CAN and WILL make it. You can move on to College and MAYBE get a better job, but only if A) You choose the correct field of study, and B) You are motivated to do somthing with it.

Most of my friends are college graduates. Only 2 work in the fields they went to school for.

I'm sorry If I am passing on stories of my experiences again... But its what I know, and its in contrast to a lot of what I hear.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Oh, all righty then.

Yes, the truism that "everybody should be treated equally and everybody should get an equal chance at an education," is true.
We all agree. Question is, how do we do that?--because anybody who thinks that everybody gets an equal chance right now--or for that matter, a close-to-equal chance--is living in the Bizarro universe.

It's easy to understand why folks think that, though. First, they have it incessantly drummed into their heads by the Powers That Be. Second, they're scared--and they should be--that they and their kids aren't going to get an equal break.

I attended an Ivy League grad school, and believe me--nobody worked harder to get there and stay there. But then, affirmative action kicked in--I didn't go to a good enough Ivy League grad school, and I wasn't rich, and I wasn't the child of academics, and I didn't always say the right things, and the class structure let me know all about it. Still, though, I was lucky and privileged.

If you think that the kids aattending an Ivy League college have exactly the same chance at an education as kids at, say, Compton College--and I've taught at both--you are living in a dream world. I couldn't list all the inequities in a week--and oh yeah, if you think the kids at, say Harvard are automatically smart6er, you are also living in la-la land.

So--what's the proposal for creating what we all agree is fair--a society where everybody gets an equal shot at it, with no guarantee of an equal outcome?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

If you want a guarentee, buy a toaster.

If you want an education, goto school and apply yourself.

If you want a break, make your own.

If you want fairness, get used to disapointment.

Life isn't fair. Life is a non-stop series of challenges. How you respond or react determines your final destination.

Your 'attitude' determines your 'altitude'.

Yes, I realize these are all quotes...but, they have something in common. They are true, and they come from sucessful people.

Stereotypes need to be fought and defeated. People need to believe that they can 'win'. We can throw statistics back and forth, point fingers, argue, rant and scream.

Problems still remain, and the questions are still unanswered.

Mr. Robertson, you got through college by busting your ***. You got where you are by meeting and defeating decks that were stacked against you. Why didn't you just give up, go home and stew about how unfair it all is? (Please sir, I'm not attacking you here, so please do not take it as such) My guess (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you had a will to win. A desire to excell.

So, how do we instill that into our kids today, so that tomorow will be better for them? How do we get them to 'fight the good fight' as it has been put?

We can say "give em all this stuff for free, and get out of their way". Fine. The fact is that however inadequate, resources are there for their use. They simply do not bother. I go to a library in a primarily black neighborhood. Its one of the neighborhoods in Buffalo thats screaming they dont have oportunities for advancement, yet its got the -best- computer book selection in the entire county. Why dont they use it?

I'm sorry, but, I do not understand it. Educate me.


one sidebar on Harvard - Bill Gates dropped out...wasn't challenged. At last report, he is still listed as being on a 'leave of absence' after 20+ years. Just a trivial bit.

 

[rmcrobertson]

But I do sulk at home. Frequently.

And those "quotes"--cliches, actually--come from "successful," businessmen and financiers, who often while away the hours telling the rest of us how and why we should become just like them. Then, once they go broke or get arrested--and they frequently do--they move on to another career--like "motivational speaker," the way Chuck Colson did.

A couple of suggestions about "motivating," kids: a) don't constantly show them that society is filled with hypocrites by rewarding lazy know-nothings like Dan Quayle; b) give them something worth fighting for, not just the Holy God Money.

Oh well.
Thanks,
Robert

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by fist of fury
So being racist against other races is ok as long as thier not black?

Other races don't have the problems this thread is addressing. That being said. when a black child is born into poverty that child is also an American and when a social phenominon almost guarantees his or her faliure, Americans should feel an outrage that there are people willing to ignore that fellow American.

 

[chufeng]

when a social phenominon almost guarantees his or her faliure

What a bunch of crap !!! Well, wait...if my mother and father told me from the day I could suck a nipple that I was destined for failure...if my mother and father told me that everything I did would be harder for me than people with different colored skin...if my mother and father told me that society wanted me to fail...then I guess I would have.

BUT, my mother and father always berated me for not working harder, for not taking school (grade school) more seriously, they always told me of my potential for being better...

...I actually didn't believe them until I brought home an A in high-school in a class that was considered "advanced." I never believed in myself until i saw what my parents had seen all along...

If you want to fill your childrens' heads full of failure, that's your business. But don't blame it on society when they fulfill YOUR dire predictions.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[chufeng]

Other races don't have the problems this thread is addressing

LIES !!!

Slavery is still alive and well in the Arab nations, in Asian countries, AND in Africa.
Who's going to pay them reparations?

...and we aren't talking about 4 or 5 generations out from slavery, we're talking RIGHT NOW...but the black community in America does not want to talk about that...

No, people born and raised in this country have EVERY opportunity to succeed...to listen to the lies of Reverend Jesse Jackson (where does he preach, anyways?) or Al Sharpton...or Charles Rangel, who created a lie to (Tawany Brawley) use the race card to further his political career, is a recipe for the status quo. Those who cry "society owes us" are the ones who are keeping a group of people down...everyone else is saying...work hard and realize your potential...

You choose...the easy handout, or the road to real freedom.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[rmcrobertson]

Uh...excuse me, but I'm reading stuff that gets pretty close to saying that every black person in America is a lazy follower of Al Sharpton?

Sigh. What a silly discussion this has become. Fifty lashes with a wet noodle, and mandatory reading of Cornel West's several-year-old "Race Matters," which offers scant comfort for either conservatives (hold on...wait for it) or liberals.

Sheesh, guys. Existentially speaking, of course we have to behave as if material and social reality were not there; otherwise, as some point out, we sit home weeping. However, we also have to behave in a fashion consistent with reality, in which (if you will but look) it remains pretty damn clear that race (that old, stupid fantasy!) and class (still around, kids...scope out Harvard Yard) and gender (but of course, now women want to be, "too equal," runs the dopey complaint) are very much still out there.

I say, like the Gil Scott-Heron song, "I want my forty acres and a mule." Hell, this country's been paying off on being white, male and Christian (at least in name) for some three hundred years. Give 'em the forty acres and a mule. If we can pay for the idiotic B-2 bomber, why not?

It's interesting to see folks sticking up for the privileges of those--and yes, I mean the upper classes--who probably wouldn't slow down on the highway if they ran over one of us. I'm fascinated, really--why?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by chufeng
LIES !!!

Slavery is still alive and well in the Arab nations, in Asian countries, AND in Africa.
Who's going to pay them reparations.?
chufeng

Your right, Countries like Kuait did end slavery in 1962 blah, blah ,blah; however the last time I checked they weren't Americans. So, why are you bringing them up. I'm sure any malcontents will be executed if the Arabs feel any backlash. They got it covered. Now back to our discussion... proceed.

 

[chufeng]

MCR,

Nowhere did I say that every black person was a Lazy Follower Of Al Sharpton...

I said that those who follow HIS line of thinking will always be looking for a handout...and THAT is the road to the "status quo."

I have much more respect for Malcolm X who told the black community to pick itself up by the bootstraps and take responsibility for its own condition...he used examples of the GREAT black people from Africa...he sacred a lot of white folks back in the 60s...but his message was much healthier than Sharpton's or Jackson's...and Malcolm was a racist who believed in the separation of races...that part of his message, I do not think is healthy.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[chufeng]

Your right, Countries like Kuait did end slavery in 1962 blah, blah ,blah;

Interesting how you left out the ACTIVE slavery going on in Africa.
and HOW you want to focus this only on a very samll segment of a very large society...NO, maybe it gets down to what YOU want to get out of the reparations movement...YOU want a check from people that had nothing to do with slavery...and it is a sure bet you weren't a slave...nor your mother or father...Just because you have more melanin than I do, you want a check...that seems a bit racist...your comments earlier about making college free for blacks sort of confirms it...

My friend from Kenya frequently talks about the blacks in this country...he says he is offended by the use of the term "African-American" because not one of his black friends were born in Africa and have NO real idea what it is like in Africa. He also says that the language barriers (ebonics) are self-imposed (by the way, his English is excellent)...that the "victim" mentality drags down the entire black community.

Bottom line...if you want something, work for it...
If you are being mistreated, bring the dipshit to justice...(I am not ignoring the facty that prejudice exists)
If you are looking for excuses, ...you fill in the blank...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Matt Stone]

I am a white guy from the lower middle/middle middle class part of ethnically segregated South Omaha. I had the deck stacked against me by societal statistics - according to what I was taught in Sociology class, I should have been in and out of Juve Hall, in and out of the local lock up, and hooked on some form of drug by now...

Amazingly, because I dug in my heels and absolutely refused to give in to peer pressure (something I get a real kick out of when folks complain about how hard that is to do - weak minds give in, strong ones don't), refused to break the law as so many of my peers did on a regular basis, and stuck to learning in school rather than wasting time futzing around on the diamond, field or court, I have managed to be the most successful person in my family.

I am the only career military person in my family. I am one of only two that have higher education. I am the only one that has broken out of blue collar labor (not saying that that work is bad - it is honest, hard labor, but it is certainly less respected than other professions) into a professional career. I do not drink, smoke nor use illegal, controlled substances (nor have I, ever).

So what happened?

Those who argue that society oppresses are those who argue for their own limitations. They want desperately to hold onto the ability to lay the blame elsewhere because accepting responsibility for their own lives takes away the cushion for failure. If they fail, then it is them and only them who must accept the responsibility for it.

Success. Like Nike says, Just Do It. Or don't. Either way, the decision lays firmly in the lap of the individual. Last time I checked, society wasn't a person that held a gun to my head and forced me to drink, take drugs, get pregnant as a teen, commit crimes, drop out of school, etc. Those are all the decisions of individuals. There are plenty of excuses for their having made those decisions, but ultimately the choices were those of the individual. Can't blame society for little Sally wanting to be more popular - it was her choice to smoke the pot and hump the entire football team, ultimately being impregnated by one of them and having to drop out of school to support the baby by turning tricks on the wrong side of the tracks. Can't blame society for little Billy wanting to be accepted by his buddies - it was his choice to boost the car while drinking underage and end up running that station wagon off the road killing the family with three small children.

Individual choices. With the freedom to make them comes the responsibility for their consequences.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[chufeng]

What he said....................

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Nightingale]

Race isn't a factor in school success....

Socioeconomic status is.

The less money you have, the less likely you are to succeed in school.

This is for many reasons, these among them:

1. school money comes largely from local property taxes and fundraising (California has changed this...all taxes are placed in a general fund and distributed to schools equally, but this is not the case in most states, and hasn't accomplished a lot in California...now ALL the schools have funding issues.) ... if the property values are low, property taxes are low, and if the community doesn't have a lot of money to begin with, fundraisers don't do a whole lot of good. The school doesn't have the money for things like textbooks and teachers, aides, and extracurricular activity programs such as clubs and athletic programs which keep kids off the streets in the afternoons. Schools that are underfunded don't have access to new textbooks and new technology. They also don't have access to money to maintain their buildings. Its hard to learn when the ceiling is falling down on you and your textbooks are full of bookworms (this actually happened in my own classroom...hard to teach when your students are having worm races across the desks).

2. students are less likely to have a quiet place to study or do homework. If several families are crowded into a small apartment, there's barely room to sleep, much less study.

3. its hard to think about homework when you're trying to figure out where your next meal is coming from and caring for your younger siblings because your parents work the night shift.

4. If your parents don't know how to read well, they can't teach you the basics when you're little... how many of us had parents or babysitters who read to us? Also, how can they read any notices the student brings home?

Students from economically disadvantaged areas start out with much less than students from middle class neighborhoods. We need to stop worrying about making everything equal and start worrying about making it EQUITABLE. Slavery reparitions are not the way to do this. Handing someone money isn't going to help. They'll spend it, its gone, that's it.... The way to do this would be to take that money and INVEST it in the community. Build more libraries and ADVERTIZE the programs available. Build more adult schools and have classes at more times. Encourage the parents to get an education. Give hazardous duty bonuses to teachers in high violence areas to encourage them to stay rather than get their year or two experience and leave for greener pastures. Look at the few schools in these areas that are working and figure out why. Implement these programs at other schools. Personally, I'd like to see all of us human beings stop admiring the problem and start working towards a solution. I'd like to see us stop asking what the government can do, what the schools can do, and what other people can do, and start asking ourselves what can WE do? What can each one of us, as individuals do to make a difference?


Respectfully,

Nightingale

PS, before someone asks me what I'm doing to help with the problem, I spend time each semester volunteering in my university's literacy lab, helping inner city children use technology to improve their reading skills.

 

[chufeng]

Nightengale,

Although much of your post shows the "stumbling blocks" to a good start...it is important to keep in mind that one man's stumbling block is another man's stepping stone...

I see a lot of EXCUSES in your post...where are the remedies...

More of the woe is me crap...

I grew up in a three bedroom ranch style house that was probably < 1500 square feet...I had four brothers...that's seven people crowded into a very small space...I managed to get my homework done, despite the distractions...I don't buy the excuses...

Even an illiterate parent who REALLY cares will find a way.

:asian:
chufeng