Reperations

[Bob Hubbard]

It is not me or my own who force a young man to a life of crime.

It is not me or mine who force him to 'act tough' 'be cool' etc and beat the snot outta some poor shmuck who happened to 'dis' him by looking at him 'the wrong way'.

Its not my fault that he lives in a dump that is trashed.

Its not my fault that he is incapable of bending over and picking up the trash on his lawn, or taking 5 minutes to patch a broken window, or take a shower, put on clean clothes, drop the attitude and apply for a job. Yes, it may only be a job shoveling **** or digging a ditch, but ya know what? Its honest work.

You are responsible for your own situation. There are public libraries in every major city. They can very easily walk their lazy excuse-spouting asses down there and crack a few books.

Oh wait...they cant read.

Maybe they should have you know....stayed in school and learned. The "I had to get a job n help the family' bit stopped being a valid excuse over 50 years ago. If you can't read and are over 14 yrs old, it is because you did not apply yourself. Public schools take almost everyone who can behave.

Oh wait, their mothers a crack whore, their daddys up river for 5-9, and their house is condemed and their neighborhood a warzone? Hey, I didnt make mommy smoke the dope, and daddy rob the liquour store, and I didnt make their area a dump.

It is a proven fact, if you take barbarians and put them in a palace, you will have animals and trash all over the place. It happened to the Romans.

It is the responsibility of every individual to seek out the training, education, and experiences to help them reach their peek potential.

I have no sympathies for trash, be they black, white, yellow, etc.
I have no sympathies for custodial parents who live off support checks and other 'aid'.
I have no sympathies for slackers, or others who refuse to take control of their own lives and destinations, instead falling back to tired cliches and poor excuses.

Bill Cosby, Eddie Murphey, Arsenio Hall, Jesse Jackson, OJ SImpson, Chris Rock, Al Sharpton, Alex Haley, James Earl Jones, Billy Dee Williams, all were called 'sell outs'. Why? Because they succeded.

Stanley O’Neal, COO of Merrill Lynch. O’Neal is slated to take over as CEO of the nation’s largest brokerage firm in 2004. Guess what 'color' he is.

Here is an interesting article : http://www.phila-tribune.com/072302-10-P1.htm Hits both sides of the issue, I think.

Let us not forget Les Brown, motivational speaker. I also remember a guy by the name of George Halsey.

"Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off your goals"

are the words of George Halsey, Amway Super Salesman. George was working as a claims adjuster, and earning just barely enough to make ends meet when he decided to look for other ways to supplement his salary. When a young Amway distributor from Greensboro South Carolina convinced him to work for them, he was off and running.

With a goal set, and a burning desire to succeed, George went door to door selling cleaning products and retired a young millionaire.

I've heard both Les' and Georges stories. Simply put, they went through hell and busted their asses, same way as we all need to. They didn't make excuses...they just did it.

I think we all need to stop making excuses, and take control of our own destinies.

 

[tarabos]

don't look at me...my ancestors were all living in Italy back in those days...

 

[Kirk]

Damned good post Kaith!

I suspect as JFK's 86th birthday passes he is turning over in his
grave (or where ever he is)watching the hard left, international
cowardly and weak "leaders" of his party rant their left wing
nonsense... The country has grown up in the past 50 years.
People are sick and tired of living in a society where effort & merit
is penalitized in favor of "equality". I believe JFK had a grip on
this simple concept which would only have grown stronger as the
years passed and people realized the damage done to this
country by years of Roosevelt's dependent society. The only way
to get ahead is through hard work & effort, not by leaching off of
the people who worked hard to achieve..

 

[Jill666]

I'm not paying anyone reparations for anything- my family also came to America at the turn of the century. Yes- they saw the "no Irish need apply" signs- but that only applied to the "good" jobs. None of my family had any problem finding work as factory workers, construction workers, and cops. I can truly say they didn't own anybody in this country. They had poor educations, but were able to work. My younger sister is the first in the family to have a college diploma- ever. (and the only one, so far.)

I do believe that the schools in "black communities" are substandard, helping to perpetuate a permanent underclass. I do believe that housing many people in huge, monolithic concrete buildings produces feelings of hopelessness and despair. I do believe that those who stay in school are often rewarded by being passed over for jobs, raises, promotions.

The answer isn't a free handout from me. I honestly think that is the most shameful proposal I have ever heard.

Ever hear the phrase "white trash"? I learned that one in first grade. Nobody calls me white trash now. (At least not to my face).

As for Irish people never being robbed of their culture- nothing could be further from the truth. Being forbidden to speak in their native tongue, practice their religion, pass on land to their children, does that sound familiar yet?

Some of my patients (geriatrics) are Irish first generation with English names. They all changed their names so they could get good jobs. They prefer to be called by their Irish "nicknames"- the names they were called in their home growing up.

I miss hearing my grandfather's native tongue, the language my father never learned growing up in America. I wish he had learned it, and passed it on. But there was no room for a dying language in a family trying to survive.

I'm quite sure there are few here who don't have similar stories, no matter what the color, race, creed. Growing up here is no guarantee. But you do have the freedom to go somewhere else, if you do not like where you are. Unless what you prefer is to stay in a neighborhood just left of hell, being angry and bitter.

Hope is definitely the missing ingredient. I don't see how that will be generated by producing cash that is sure-as-**** not going to go to someone who would be able to make use of it.

My point of view.

 

[Cryozombie]

I also would like to point out that people who perpetuate a stereotype have NO (read that people ZERO) right to complain that their "people" are treated in a manner consistant with that stereotype.

And I'm not talking about a color or race here. I'm talking about ALL colors and races... its a Human thing, not a racial thing...

If you are a crack smoking homeboy with your pants around your ankles who shows up for every Job interview and says "What up dog, lemme git a job Yo" You cannot blame the fact that you are black/Hispanic/Etc... from keeping you from getting that job. You know why? Cuz as a Hiring manager I wouldnt hire you if you were black, hispanic, white or asian. Its not a racial thing.

"But thats my culture!" you shout! "You discriminate because I wont give up my culture!"

Hmmm. Dunno about that. As a Rivethead I had to give up my piercings, get a haircut to lose the Hawk, and remove the Blue dye, cover my tattoos, and dress the part of a human being to obtain gainful employment. And I did it. It's not who I am, but it who I am at work. Its not about culture its about PROFESSIONALISM.

"Oh but what you just described is SUBCULTURE, thats differant man its not who you are racialy..."

Hmmm. Find me a country where the roots go back to speaking Ebonics, dressing like a slob and refusing to work. I'd like to point out that the Jerry Springer show isn't a country so it doesnt count. That type of attitude/speach whatever isnt cultural, its Sub-cultural, same as mine. White People do it... Black People do it. Hispanic people do it, Asian people do it. ITS NOT RACIAL AT ALL.

You cant perpetuate a stereotype and then complain that people treat persons of that <Race/Sex/Color/Creed/Sexual orientation> like the stereotype, its just ignorant.

 

[Phil Elmore]

You Can't Live Yesterday: The Folly of Land Claims, Reparations, and Historical Revisionism

 

[Touch Of Death]

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Sorry guys, for the dose of reality--but in California it is ILLEGAL to hire merely on the basis of "race." Similarly, the quota stuff is sheer nonsense...and you might look up the Bakke decision, some twenty years old, and the subsequent case law.

Yes, yes. The girls are getting all the jobs. The ____(name of minority here) are. The gays are. California is...(oh incidentally, I ain't from here. And I ain't a liberal, so get off it. I realize that Rush spouts these caricatures...but nope, wrong, not me) Whatever. Now who's blaming others and "they," for our own problems?

And is anybody out there naive enough to believe that JFK's "race," and money didn't help just a teeny bit? I mean, the guy plagiarized, "Profiles in Courage."

What's really going on here--no disrespect to your frustrations, I've got my own around these issues--is a) working class ressentiment, turned against the wrong folks; b) men's anxieties, acted out at times in which their historical role seems under attack (see Neil Hertz, "Medusa's Head: Male Hysteria Under Political Pressure,"), c) some very effective propagandizing by the likes of Savage, Limbaugh, et al, d) a round of magical thinking, in which what we heard from somewhere becomes something that we directly experienced...and e) self-interest, using politics to explain itself.

Minorities are not the enemy, guys. Can "they" act stupidly and irresponsibly? Sure. Do "they," sometimes use what they fantasize as their "race," (ain't no such animal, but that's another story) to retailaie/provide excuses? Sure: fools abound. But "they," are not the enemy. They're your allies, ya just don't know it.

You want enemies? weellp, fact is, Marx was right about who they are. Problem is, his analyses of class and capital were employed in ways (and may have implications themselves) that proved historically absolutely disastrous (so let's go easy on the YOU"RE A STALINIST! posts, eh?)for millions. Just as disastrous as Christianity and capitalism have proved, in fact...

Now everybody, sing along with the Situationists: "the world won't be happy until the last bureaucrat/is hung with the guts of the last capitalist." yeah, like that'll work. We'll still be stuck with something nebulous called,, "human nature."

 

[Kirk]

Who said they were the "enemy" ???? Most are
saying we are not from privileged upbringings, weren't
responsible for slavery and don't feel that a single solitary nickle
should come from our pockets to pay those who weren't ever
slaves in the first place. My enemy in society are those that think
ridding the world of class distinctions, and increasing government
control over it's people is a road to utopia.

 

[Matt Stone]

Point the finger of blame for actions in the present or the past at the persons responsible, not their descendants (unless they had a hand in it).

Take active responsibility for where you find yourself in life. Like the song says, the bulk of most decisions we make are luck anyway, so you can't really congratulate yourself too much for success, nor castigate yourself too much for failure.

Everyone should have the equal opportunity to fail. Give everyone a chance to try, and capitalize on the ones that manage to succeed. If you fail, you fail. Don't get too worked up about it - find something you succeed at and do that instead.

Interestingly, though, the tax money of those who desire reparations is also paying for the reparations just the same as the tax money of those who don't want the reparations paid for in the first place... Seems like those "for" end up paying themselves...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[rmcrobertson]

Absolutely true. I see no reason that money and family position should be able to override ability and knowledge...

As for who the enemies are, Kirk, please re-read my post. The point was that folks have been taught to mis-recognize their natural allies as their enemies, for reasons I enumerated.

Thanks,
Robert

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I used to feel real sorry for how the native americans were treated. Having spent a significant amount of time on a reservation recently, I feel less sorry. The owner of the smokeshop I was doing some contract work informed me that he had to hire off reservation folks due to a poor work ethic amongst those he hired locally. Not all, but enough to effect his bottom line seriously. After driving through the res, I noticed that once you crossed the border, it got real dirty fast. Trailers that looked like they have been bombed with multiple rusting abandoned cars lined 1 whole street. Every lawn was overgrown and rubish filled.

Recently a house a street away from my mothers was raided by the police. It had no heat, was rat infested, filth was everywhere. The matresses were water and waste soaked, and there was human and animal feces everywhere. This house wasn't in a 'slum', it was in a lower middle class 'white' neighborhood. The family wasn't poor. They were just slobs.

I drive through the local 'getto' neignborhoods, I see the same thing. Garbage on the lawns, in the streets. Abandoned cars, etc. dozens of cans and bottles within a 30 second walk of an empty public garbage can.

Giving these people free money wont help them. They will waste it. Bubba wont learn to read, Tyrone won't learn to speak, and Sits-On-*** won't show up for work awake and on time.

If thousands of Irish could get off the boat, face massive discrimination and violence and yet build sucessful lives and businesses, why can't groups that have been here for years?

If thousands of asians can get off a boat, work together and succeed when language and stereotypes are major barriers, why can a local?

If thousands of latinos and hispanics can brave death, violence, deportation, language barriers and worse, why can't people who are already here not?

I saw a story about a guy who raised his son while living in a public restroom in NYC. Guy took every oportunity he could to better himself and grow as a person. He now runs a very sucessful business and has gone back to his roots to help more people suceed. He's one of those 'sell outs' I mentioned earlier.


Race is an illusion, an excuse for failure. Sucess is up to you. If you sit on your ***, wait for handouts, cop an attitude, dont take the time to learn to read or speak properly, cant be bothered to take pride in yourself and what you do, then, stay poor, keep living in filth.

Do I think there is one single black, or indian who is owed a single $? Nope.

Jew or Japanese owed for WW2 issues? Maybe, but only if it happened to you. If it happened to your grandfather, no, I dont.


These are just -my- opinions. They do not reflect the opinions of MartialTalk or its staff.

:asian:

 

[streetwise]

I love the idea of reparations! First, as a descendent of a Scottish Highland clan, I would like my, oh I'll be nice, 20 million pounds from the Brits for the Highland clearances. The, when my people finally got to the US, they were passed over for jobs in favor of freed slaves (supposedly harder workers who would take more crap from bosses), so take $1000 bucks in taxes from every African American and send THAT to me. Let's see, what else should I get? You know, it takes longer to get my food at my favorite east Austin resturant, since I have to wait for the English speaking waitress, so those Hispanic-Americans should have to pony up something. What about those Asians? Dammit, I got to get an angle on MY money that they are holding, that's how they keep my people down, don't 'cha know?


Look, reparations is probably the single silliest idea in 50 years. Work hard, adapt to workplace conditions and economic realities, overcome, achieve, succeed or fail on your own merits. Appropriate on a martial arts forum, isn't it?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

overcome, achieve, succeed or fail on your own merits.

Nah...it'll never catch on.

 

[J-kid]

You should not pay for people crimes in the past, It was not your fault and there for you should not be heald accountable.

Also no one in my family had slaves and my family came from germany and fiji and i have traced back my relitives pritty far.

I dont mean to be rude but the only people who have ever tryed to make me feel like i might o them somthing are african americans. Now i have alot of friends who are african americans but ever once in a blue moon i come across someone who is a african american that will try and make it seem that i o him somthing because somewhere across the line cucasions owned a slave in his family.

I believe that all races including cucasions have been apressed and have been inslaved. If you go back far enough in any race or relegion there are tails of horrorible things happening.

You dont need to forget the past but you do need to put it behind you.

 

[fist of fury]

All these whinners get old yeah the past sucked deal with it. Oh too bad you grew up in a lousy neighborhood deal with it. Your mom was a crack whore too bad your dad was a drunk...wah..wah life is rough welcome to reality so I propose this....

We, the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help
everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid any more
riots, keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure the
blessings of debt-free liberty to ourselves and our
great-great-great-grandchildren, hereby try one more time to ordain and
establish some commonsense guidelines for the terminally whiny,guilt-ridden,
delusional, bed wetters.

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that a whole lot of people are confused
by the Bill of Rights and are so dim that they require a Bill of No Rights.

ARTICLE I: You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV or any other
form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them,but no one is
guaranteeing anything.

ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This Country is
based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone -- not just you! You may
leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc., but the
world is full of idiots, and probably always will be ... and like the rest of us
you need to simply deal with it.

ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you stick a
screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful, do not expect the tool
manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.

ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing. Americans are
the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but
we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation after generation of
professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more than the creation of
another generation of professional couch potatoes.

ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice,
but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in public health
care.

ARTICLE VI: You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you
kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don't be surprised if the
rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair.

ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If you rob,
cheat or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don't be surprised
if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still
won't have the right to a big screen color TV, pool tables, weight rooms or a
life of leisure.

ARTICLE VIII: You don't have the right to a job. All of us sure want you to have
a job, and will gladly help you along in hard times, but we expect you to take
advantage of the opportunities of part time jobs, education and vocational
training laid before you to make yourself useful.

ARTICLE IX: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American
Means that you have the right to PURSUE happiness -- which by the way, is a lot
easier if you are unencumbered by an overabundance of idiotic laws created by
those of you who were confused by the Bill of Rights.

ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you are
from. We welcome you here. English is our language and like the one you left
behind, we also have a culture. Learn it or go back to the country and the
living conditions you were fleeing.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Interesting poit : 20 votes - 100% against.

hmm....

 

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
You should not pay for people crimes in the past, It was not your fault and there for you should not be heald accountable.

Also no one in my family had slaves and my family came from germany and fiji and i have traced back my relitives pritty far.

I dont mean to be rude but the only people who have ever tryed to make me feel like i might o them somthing are african americans. Now i have alot of friends who are african americans but ever once in a blue moon i come across someone who is a african american that will try and make it seem that i o him somthing because somewhere across the line cucasions owned a slave in his family.

I believe that all races including cucasions have been apressed and have been inslaved. If you go back far enough in any race or relegion there are tails of horrorible things happening.

You dont need to forget the past but you do need to put it behind you.

It's good too see you posting again I haven't seen you post in a while I miss these wild and wacky posts

 

[Touch Of Death]

I must have missed that Clan rally that said injustices our country commited in the passed should be ignored and consequences be damned. Sieg heil!:moon:

 

[fist of fury]

Seems I missed the group hug session that says I'm accountable for injustices had nothing to do with me.