Religion the root of all evil?

[CoryKS]

Are cults used to control? To enable to enable behaviour that otherwise would not occur? If yes, what is the difference between groups called cults, and larger groups called religions? Can a cult turn into a religion if it reaches a large enough size?

Good questions. I'm not entirely clear on the distinction between a cult and a religion, though the term 'cult' is generally used derogatorially to refer to a belief that is considered fringe, bogus, or just plain whackadoo. I suppose it's a matter of opinion - I can think of at least one mainstream religion which I consider more of a cult than a 'legitimate' religion.

 

[elder999]

Can a cult turn into a religion if it reaches a large enough size?

One did; it's called Christianity.

From the very excellent Merriam-Webster English Language Technical Manual:

Main Entry: cult
Pronunciation: 'k&lt
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at [SIZE=-1]WHEEL[/SIZE]
1 : formal religious veneration : [SIZE=-1]WORSHIP[/SIZE]
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents


In all seriousness, the negative connotations of the word "cult" are often misconstrued-the Sufis, for example, could be considered a cult of Islam. Likewise some of the various monastic orders of Christianity, sects of the Coptic church, or, for something altogether harmless to others and alarming as well,Pentecostal snake-handlers.

 

[Ray]

All I know is that I was more evil when I was without religion. And now much more aware of my shortcomings.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

I often wonder when these "anti-religous" types were last at a religous service? Im a semi-lapsed Catholic (read I go to mass sometimes, sometimes I dont) and every sermon is always about love, forgiveness, redemption, perhaps a little bit about abortion or stem cell research (I think THATS the big issue for the lib, anti-church crowd. Disagree with a pet issue and the religion is the root of all evil). IMO, part of the reason Im not very "religious" about my religo is because its gotten so "feminized" all singing and hand holding and "peace and love". Most of the other denominations (short the fundamentalists) seem to be the same.

 

[Cruentus]

No, I switched guns to Nukes to avoid that argument, American based board and all

Of course Big bombs could have uses, suppose a meteor was going to hit us, and a really big Nuke could divert it? Not evil then.

Good point. It always does go back to the user, even with nukes.

I'd seperate the two, religion and spirituality as they are not the same things.

Are cults used to control? To enable to enable behaviour that otherwise would not occur? If yes, what is the difference between groups called cults, and larger groups called religions? Can a cult turn into a religion if it reaches a large enough size?

There is a negative outlook regarding religion in this day in age. There is a current modern belief that many people hold; that organized religion is inherently bad, but "spirituality" is O.K..

I think that would be not much different then saying that martial arts dojo's that do the uniform and belt system thing are all "cults" and inherently bad. This is obviously obsurd. There are some martial arts programs that are "cult-like" and negative environments; but there are others that are not. This is obviously not confined to whether or not the dojo does the belt uniform thing or not. Some MMA gyms or RBSD outfits can be very cultlike as well.

That said, no, I don't believe that established religions are just "cults" that got large.

When I say this, I am not refering to one dictionary definition of cult, which simply means sect or faction. I think that when we refer to a "religious cult," we are refering to a group of people who intend to exert mind and behavior control over its members for malicious motives. These could be doomsday cults to Al Quaeda. Malicious motives could cause a range of ills from financial, sexual, activity, and mental control over members to loss of life and destruction of members or society.

I think that very few religion's or religious organizations fit the extreme definition of "religious cult."

The word cult, however, is a skunk word in that it has different meanings to different people. So when one makes a statement like, "aren't religion's just cults that have grown to a large size," it is difficult to know what one is really trying to say.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/cults.htm

 

[CoryKS]

There is a negative outlook regarding religion in this day in age. There is a current modern belief that many people hold; that organized religion is inherently bad, but "spirituality" is O.K..

Calling oneself 'spiritual' is just a weaselly way of saying one doesn't want anyone, god or man, telling them what to do. When people say they are spiritual but not religious, I infer that they want the social acceptance of appearing devout without having to follow all those, you know, rules.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Disipline from the dojo and codes of conduct laid down by the "grand master" are cool and "eastern". But when it comes from an organized religion its "intolerant" and control of the masses. I dont get it.

 

[Andrew Green]

Disipline from the dojo and codes of conduct laid down by the "grand master" are cool and "eastern". But when it comes from an organized religion its "intolerant" and control of the masses. I dont get it.

Who said that?

 

[Ray]

Calling oneself 'spiritual' is just a weaselly way of saying one doesn't want anyone, god or man, telling them what to do.

An old friend, upon hearing of my religious conversion, told me he could get closer to God hiking in the mountains than he could in a church. I asked him if he took the time while in the mountains to get closer to God; he said "no."

 

[Xue Sheng]

Religion the root of all evil?

Nope, the people that use it to justify the atrocities they commit are.

And as it has already been said in this post, religion is not always involved, again it is the people committing the atrocities that are to blame.

A lot of nasty things are done by people in the name of religion.

The Crusades, Nanking (and the Japanese filmed some of this and believe me you don't want to see them), 9/11, don’t forget ethnic cleansing and a pack of civil wars, etc.

 

[Shaderon]

Calling oneself 'spiritual' is just a weaselly way of saying one doesn't want anyone, god or man, telling them what to do. When people say they are spiritual but not religious, I infer that they want the social acceptance of appearing devout without having to follow all those, you know, rules.

Not quite, I guess some people may do this, but spirituality is a form of religion in itself, with it's own rules and it's own beliefs. There are many forms of it just as there are many forms of Christianity. We just believe in another form of spirit... or "god" if you like. There are devout spiritualists and non devout ones, same as any other religion.

 

[Don Roley]

I have always held the position that it isn't the fault of the religion in particular, it is the fault of certain people who will use religion and twist the belief system to fit a violent and immoral agenda.

I think it is that certain people look to something greter than themselves, greater than anyone, that can't be challenged to tell them to do what they already want to do.

If you don't like one religion, find another that will let you hate women. Maybe you can find something written in one part of a holy book that will jusify you being a woman hater if you carefully ignore other chapters than may explain away your hate. You can still point to a bit of holy writ and say that no one can challenge the word of God.

And if you don't find what you want in religion, there are other movements such as communism that will give you what you want- especially if you look at only one aspect and avoid the larger picture. The dynamics are the same. Tap into something that will help humanity as long as you don't question and debate and stop rational discussion when it strays into uncomfertable areas.

The enemy is not religion per se. The enemy is the idea of something bigger than ourselves that can justify the breaking of a few eggs to make an omlet and can't be questioned.

 

[tellner]

Calling oneself 'spiritual' is just a weaselly way of saying one doesn't want anyone, god or man, telling them what to do. When people say they are spiritual but not religious, I infer that they want the social acceptance of appearing devout without having to follow all those, you know, rules.

It can be that way. Or they can be looking for their own approval rather than that of others. There is a tendency these days to think of religion or spirituality as what you believe rather than what you do. It's remarkably convenient since it allows you to believe and do what you want (or whatever is socially sanctioned) and feel smug about it.

There's also a great deal of hard truth in the position that man-made religions, and no matter how Divine their origins they are all administered, designed and practiced by human beings, are all traps. You can end up fooling yourself in many ways and directing your attention or pursuing goals other than the right ones. This is the root of idolatry and why it's such a Bad Thing. "Kill the Buddha", "Die rather than worship idols", "Finger pointing at the moon", Krsna and the forty milkmaids and all the rest. There are a thousand ways to end up worshipping yourself or becoming devoted to some dead end.

The worst idolatrous trap of all is piety. When you begin worshipping your religion or your own spiritual practice and make it the goal you've fallen into one of the most insidious ones. Sufi traditions say that heaven and hell are both dead ends. If your goal is to play your "Get Out of Hell Free" card and enjoy eternity you will certainly be more comfortable than the damned. But you'll be just as lost if your focus isn't always the Most High. You see this everywhere. The Boddhisattva finally renounces his attachment to Enlightenment. Jesus talks about how not everyone who does miracles and cries "Lord! Lord!" will be accepted at the final judgement.

Calling yourself "spiritual" and believing that it gets you out of changing yourself or being honest. Neither is a self-satisfied piety and belief that the forms and rules or even blind faith are the way. Very few hear the Buddha preach one sutra and are suddenly hit by the Enlightenment of Manju Sri which strikes like a thunderbolt (and very few of them have the necessary strength and resilience to survive it). For most it's a matter of constant work, emptying oneself, learning to see things as they really are, waking up and learning to reject what is false even when it was one's goal earlier on.

Rules and forms are useful, but they aren't the Way. Faith is just a tool and one that can lead you confidently off the edge of a cliff. The Bible is paper and ink. The Kaaba is a hunk of rock. Smug self-satisfaction that one is advanced is like the guy passing the fifth story of the Empire State building on the way down and saying "It's great so far". Other people can teach and guide, but they're in the same mess you are.

 

[Martial Tucker]

IMO, the ego is the source of all evil. It's your subconscious need or desire to be somehow better than other people. I don't mean "better" in the context of
a healthy sport or business competition, I'm talking about a need to feel superior at the human level. I believe a major tenet of enlightenment is the recognition and attitude that we are all connected...all ONE. To me, spirituality is a way of thinking and living that recognizes and incorporates this attitude. We may have different looks, talents, tastes, or whatever, but just because someone is different, it doesn't mean they are wrong or inferior. The ego would tell you otherwise to convince you that YOU are right, or better, as compared to someone different than you.


Many organized religions are all about judgement. They preach that THEIR way is the true way, and others are wrong, or damned, or even to be persecuted.
Religion is supposed to bring people together. Most of them just separate us, and unwittingly teach us to judge others. Again, it all comes back to the ego, and our need to be above others.

BTW, when "Christian" settlers arrived here from Europe in the 16th and 17th century, they butchered a lot of "pagan" Native Americans, including women and children, like they were animals. The Japanese have nothing on our American ancestors when it comes to savagery.

 

[Andrew Green]

Brand new article on the subject:

People kill when God tells them to

Violence sanctioned by God can increase aggression, especially in believers, according to new research published in the March issue of Psychological Science which may help elucidate the relationship between religious indoctrination and violence, a topic that has gained renewed notoriety in the wake of the September 11th terrorist attacks.

The study could also explain why the Bush administration is increasingly using religion to justify the US invasion of Iraq with President Bush, going as far as to say: "God ordered me to invade Iraq."

http://pressesc.com/01172248280_god_turns_people_into_murderers

 

[Cruentus]

Brand new article on the subject:


http://pressesc.com/01172248280_god_turns_people_into_murderers

Grossman detailed a specific formula for killing that is right on the money.

Moral conviction is an intricate part of that formula. If one morally believes that killing under a said circumstance is justifiable or honorable or a part of ones duty, then ones job in doing so comes much easier when the other parts of the formula are in place.

Religion can provide one avenue to moral justification. So can greek philosophy, for example, or any other secular reasoning.