Realistic Training !!

[Rubber Tanto]

LOL
Please don't tell me that all you absorbed out of my post was my bad spelling of japanese words?

Though now I'm hungry!

 

[Ronnin]

As many here will know, my Bujinkan Dojo has sparring, pressure testing and resistance training as part of its syllabus, and I am a big advocate of all schools using these in Bujinkan training...but this does not mean that we have thrown kata to the wayside.

In fact, I find kata of great importance and I have had this discussion before with people who think the kata is telling us HOW we should be fighting when (IMO) its how we should be MOVING when we fight. It is not telling us that when someone throws a punch we MUST do a taki yori...but showing us that if ever the opportunity arises to use a taki yori, we will know HOW to do one.

Ronnin, think of the kata as the uke being a punching bag that walks, steps forward, throws punches and falls/flips/stumbles/etc like a human.

To me, that's all it is.

As tori, (IMO) you are getting this person (yes at times compliant) as a dummy to practice what you are learning. I would say that getting a white belt to pull off a muso dori on a fully resistant opponent might make for much frustration, yes? So hence, the kata is the place to figure out 1) the technique, 2) the distance and timing 3) the balance (yours and uke) and 4) the force, movement required to pull it off.

It can be up to you, once you feel comfortable with what ever kata you are looking at, to get your uke to raise the speed, resistance for you.

The other thing is that many think that when uke throws that famous "lunge punch" that you as uke are learning to punch/strike like that. Not so. You learn to punch strike as tori... have you ever noticed that as tori your punches, shutos etc aren't lunging strikes?

Once again... uke is just a breathing punching bag.

If you really liked your bujinkan training (technique wise) but felt that you were not getting the realism you wanted, you could always just suss out which of your fellow students feel the same way and agree to spar with them after class. You would be amazed how much you could learn here, and that as people watched, would want to join. At my dojo, the group became big enough to make a whole class out of it. It's not rocket science.

I understand what you are saying, and I'll try to look at it that way. And yes, most people will just get the tiny little mistakes

 

[jks9199]

I know it's not exactly what you see on UFC happens on the street, but it's the basic idea. I don't know about you guys but I'm in the Orange County area where it's the Jujutsu HQ over here. There are all the big name Jujutsu and MMA schools here. Gracie, No Limits, sections of Militige Camp, and the list goes on. So over here it's pretty close to what you see on TV. If you go to a bar or something, you have a good chance of finding out how good you are. I will read your link.

And you're basing your concept of a "real" fight on what experience?

I've been in real street fights where the people REALLY didn't want to go to jail, and where they were willing to do anything to avoid it. NOTHING is perfect preparation for that. I've been lucky; I've never been in a situation where I was outnumbered (or at least, not for long). But that could change tomorrow. I've found that sound principles, practiced in the manner I've already described got me through it. Interestingly enough, that same basic approach is what was (and is) used by the defensive tactics instructors at the academy. Practice it easy the first few times, then ramp up the difficulty and variations once the basic idea is picked up. Maybe there's something to it... Maybe there's something to ways of training for combat that have lasted for varying numbers of centuries, as well. After all, somebody sure lived to tell about it!

Someone else already noted that you seem unhappy; I suggest that perhaps you need to shop around some. You're lucky; there are literally tons of martial arts schools, ranging from huge commercial operations to one guy teaching a buddy or two in his backyard or garage, in California. Do some hunting and find somewhere that you'll be happy. Life's too short to invest the time it takes for even halfway serious martial arts training in something you don't enjoy, no matter what others think of it. (You might also check out Peyton Quinn at rmcat.com, among several others. I name Peyton 'cause I have some acquaintance with him; there are others who have good programs.)

 

[Don Roley]

also you seem to focus on my errors that don't sway my post.

No, I am cutting through to the areas that show your fundementially flawed outlook on the martial arts.

When you started off saying that we did things in the Bujinkan for traditions sake, you showed me that you did not understand what was going on and merely attributing it to tradition. When I told you you should try to understand things before you judge, you tried arguing that you really did know. Now you are talking about the UFC and such. The mere fact that you mention it in the same thread as a discussion about real fights show that you really have no idea about the subject matter. If you want to prepare for that sport, then train for that sport. But after only a couple of years, you really do not know why we do certain things the way we do.

I see a lot of me a few decades ago in you. I grew out of it. I can't hold your actions against you if you do so as well. But I have seen what people with the attitude you show here end up as and it is not something I would wish on my worst enemy. You have the ability to change, but the first move is to acknowledge that you have no idea about what a real fight is all about and what is needed to train for it. When you start from there, you might find some answers. Indeed, you might find they were right there under your very nose. But if you insist that you know what you need to prepare for combat, you can imagine how egotistical that sounds to us that have more experience than you.

 

[Ronnin]

No, I am cutting through to the areas that show your fundementially flawed outlook on the martial arts.

When you started off saying that we did things in the Bujinkan for traditions sake, you showed me that you did not understand what was going on and merely attributing it to tradition. When I told you you should try to understand things before you judge, you tried arguing that you really did know. Now you are talking about the UFC and such. The mere fact that you mention it in the same thread as a discussion about real fights show that you really have no idea about the subject matter. If you want to prepare for that sport, then train for that sport. But after only a couple of years, you really do not know why we do certain things the way we do.

I see a lot of me a few decades ago in you. I grew out of it. I can't hold your actions against you if you do so as well. But I have seen what people with the attitude you show here end up as and it is not something I would wish on my worst enemy. You have the ability to change, but the first move is to acknowledge that you have no idea about what a real fight is all about and what is needed to train for it. When you start from there, you might find some answers. Indeed, you might find they were right there under your very nose. But if you insist that you know what you need to prepare for combat, you can imagine how egotistical that sounds to us that have more experience than you.

I'm going to say this with the most respect so please understand that first.
You say I have no idea what a real fight is all about, and I have no idea how to train for it. Well, I don't hold anything against you because how can you know me. But let me tell you, I know a bit about a fight, and how to prepare for one. More importantly, I know how quickly things go VERY, VERY wrong, and you may be left with your thumb up your butt. I also believe in the motto which I lived by for 4 years "We train like we fight, fight like we train". This is from my 4 years at the 2nd Batt. 75th Ranger Reg. With combat tours, I believe I know a bit about a fight. The difference is I had to live it, and see it. It is also a thing to think about that all special forces around the globe train in the "MMA" style of defense. Yes even Japan. I have actually trained with them when the UN comes to Georgia for the "School of the Americas". Now don't tell me to go do MMA, I don't want to train MMA. It's not that I think our techniques don't work, it's just I don't think the "awareness" is taught enough. IN MY DOJO.

 

[stephen]

The other thing is that many think that when uke throws that famous "lunge punch" that you as uke are learning to punch/strike like that. Not so. You learn to punch strike as tori... have you ever noticed that as tori your punches, shutos etc aren't lunging strikes?

Once again... uke is just a breathing punching bag.

RT,

I really enjoy your posts.

I do, however, respectfully disagree with this statement. I believe that many uke over-commit their attacks and end up in a bad position which makes it very easy for tori to respond.

I look at uke/tori like this. Uke's job is to throw a good, solid attacks. This is his time to practice attacking. If tori is good enough he should be able to 'suck in' uke enough to bait him into that overcommitted position. I find that this is very difficult, but rewarding. I also find that I like to train kata in this way, with it being tori's job to provide the correct 'bait' at each point to make the kata happen.

In essence, I see the uke's job as simply trying to attack well. It's tori's job to set up the distance, false openings, the 'terrain' in order to make the technique happen.

As a drill, I often enjoy training this by starting kata or techniques from a far distance. Then, as one/both walk toward each other there will be a point where uke thinks that the distance and openings are correct to attack. I find that this distance is often much closer then first suspected.

If uke is not trying his best to attack with proper kamae then I don't see how tori will ever be able to train this skill/ability/sensivitity.

I believe that if I do not train this way then I can't see how 50% of my training is not teaching my body to make bad attacks with bad kamae.

I find that as I and my friends in the dojo grow better together, the attacks become better. There are less openings and it becomes more difficult to get that 'connection', hopefully this increases my skill as well as I train to cope with an ever-increasing level of attack.

Thanks for letting me ramble.

 

[Don Roley]

But let me tell you, I know a bit about a fight, and how to prepare for one.

Oh? Have you ever had someone come out of an alley and try to stick a knife in you? How about being surrounded by thugs? You see, your experiences in the military does not carry over to hand to hand. You are far from the only person here who has been to the Benning school for boys. And if you think your miltary experiences carry over, you just do not know how wrong you are.

The problem is, you are trying to draw a map to a place you have never been before.

Unless you have been in a hand to hand situation that involves deadly weapons, how the heck are you suppossed to know what it is like and how to prepare for it? Some of the things you think are useless become neccesary, and some of the things you think would help get in the way.

So you are sitting down, without the experience of killing someone, and trying to say what is needed to prepare for a situation where you might have to. Guess how that sounds? Your talking about MMA and such as if he has relevance....how do you know that?

From your first post you talked about how we did our form of punching and training with it for tradition's sake. You are wrong. If you read the pages that Nimravus linked to, you can see how a person with experience with dealing with knife weilding thugs thinks about your MMA and sparring talk. Hey, I happen to believe that people need to spend more time working on awareness. I just happen to know that there are reasons for a lot of what we do in the Bujinkan that are not obvious at first. You learn certain things at certain points- not too early because that would ruin your later progress. A lot of things that have been tossed out of "traditional" martial arts by those that would "modernize," "Improve" or otherwise change the art actually are very important.

In short, you don't know what a knife fight is like and you do not have not the knowledge of what should be taught at what point. You need to ask more questions, take a closer look at what is behind the training and not declare that certain things are done for tradition's sake or are not usefull for combat training. If you get some police reports of you taking on attackers with deadly weapons, you might get more respect when you talk like that- not before.

 

[Rook]

Now don't tell me to go do MMA, I don't want to train MMA. It's not that I think our techniques don't work, it's just I don't think the "awareness" is taught enough. IN MY DOJO.

Ronnin. Everyone is telling you that BBT does not do what you are asking of it. You dojo doesn't do what you are asking of it. The art is not going to change, the dojo is not going to change, and if you have different expectations, you shouldn't change. You may be better off training another art that has training practices in line with your expectations rather than trying to change the practices of the one that you are in now - even in that means having to learn different techniques. Techniques are only as good as the practice that goes with them and the ultimate ability to use them against actual opponents. If you don't think you are getting it, you probably are right and its time to change schools or even change systems.

 

[Rubber Tanto]

RT,

I really enjoy your posts.

I do, however, respectfully disagree with this statement. .

Hi Stephen.
Thanks for the kind words. With what you have replied with, I have no issue with and agree on much of it. BUT I do think you have not understood what I am talking about to a point

I believe that many uke over-commit their attacks and end up in a bad position which makes it very easy for tori to respond.

I look at uke/tori like this. Uke's job is to throw a good, solid attacks. This is his time to practice attacking. If tori is good enough he should be able to 'suck in' uke enough to bait him into that overcommitted position. I find that this is very difficult, but rewarding. I also find that I like to train kata in this way, with it being tori's job to provide the correct 'bait' at each point to make the kata happen.

In essence, I see the uke's job as simply trying to attack well. It's tori's job to set up the distance, false openings, the 'terrain' in order to make the technique happen.

But if I was to be an attacking uke and "attack well" in kata, lets say we are working on Gansekinage...I would not step forward, but throw a jab/cross, forcing tori to commit to trying to capture the jab then trying to finish him with the cross to the chin. Now, as you say, If tori is good enough he should be able to 'suck in' uke enough to bait me into that overcommitted position, but now he can't because I haven't stepped forward. So even though there is plenty the Tori can do here, it is no longer about Gansekinage. Sure someone of higher skill can probably work it out from there but I think doing this to a low rank would be a fruitless exercise, yes?

So when I'm talking about kata, as in my line earlier.

The other thing is that many think that when uke throws that famous "lunge punch" that you as uke are learning to punch/strike like that. Not so. You learn to punch strike as tori... have you ever noticed that as tori your punches, shutos etc aren't lunging strikes?

Once again... uke is just a breathing punching bag.

I am talking about pure kata without modification. I am not saying that uke should lunge, I am just naming the move under the label that the "skeptics" have given it. In truth, I am very against training in which people leave that punch out in the air to linger in the wind while tori moves. I believe that as a tori is more proficient, the punch should be pulled back if they are two slow. A tori should move fast enough so that uke does not need to sit there like a statue. A uke should move in proper kamae.

In my dojo we start off a technique in very basic format (uke steps forward with punch, tori does whatever kata is)but we are allowed to evolve it as long as we don't go beyond or level of knowledge. (uke circle and strikes at random and tori does whatever kata is while moving for example) We don't go past our own taijutsu. The same applies for our randori and pressure testing (which in my opinion is where uke tries his best to attack for both uke and tori to train skill/ability/sensivitity.)

Does this make more sense?

 

[bencole]

No I don't know Age Uchi without the Bo, that's my point. The dojo training !! Why does nobody understand that?

So you blame your teacher for the fact that you haven't spent time learning that you can do Age Uchi without the Bo.... (shake head)

So have you followed my advice and grabbed a training partner and tried to figure it out yet? Or do you expect your teacher to show you? Or do you expect me to show you?

You said that you knew the movement (and complained about its limitations with armor). If you know the movement, then you should be able to practice it as I've suggested.

Let me know when you do.

(Hint: It might help you to find what you are looking for if, when you ask a question, you take the answer and do something with the answer.)

Here is just one example....

bencole][/B]Why not go train with David Dow? He's just down the street from you.

Another alternative is Dan Weidman. He's also in L.A.

I would love to find him.

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,100 for david dow bujinkan. (0.41 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,040 for daniel weidman bujinkan. (0.19 seconds)

So rather than posting "I would love to find him," you could have done two things: (1) Googled the two of them and located them in a combined 1 full second! (2) Asked the person who recommended the teachers if he knew their contact information.

Instead, you allow other people's posts (and your ego that you "know real fighting") to detract you from what *SUPPOSEDLY* was your complaint--that in your dojo and the dojo nearby, you cannot find the training you are looking for....

So why not just spend the day *NOT POSTING* and instead follow up on the two points that have been raised for you: (1) See if you can figure out how to do Age Uchi *WITHOUT* the bo (and *WITHOUT* your teacher) and (2) Find David or Dan?

It's just a suggestion.

-ben

 

[Rubber Tanto]

So why not just spend the day *NOT POSTING* and instead follow up on the two points that have been raised for you: (1) See if you can figure out how to do Age Uchi *WITHOUT* the bo (and *WITHOUT* your teacher) and (2) Find David or Dan?

It's just a suggestion.

-ben

Dear God...did I just nod my head in agreement with Ben?
*Nick grabs his tanto and commits seppuke!*

(lucky it's rubber)

 

[stephen]

Hi Stephen.
Thanks for the kind words. With what you have replied with, I have no issue with and agree on much of it. BUT I do think you have not understood what I am talking about to a point.

It's hard with the written medium; I was pretty sure I wasn't getting the whole picture.

But if I was to be an attacking uke and "attack well" in kata, lets say we are working on Gansekinage...I would not step forward, but throw a jab/cross, forcing tori to commit to trying to capture the jab then trying to finish him with the cross to the chin.

Now this is where the discussion gets tricky! As we try to talk about things that are difficult to talk about, so please forgive me if I'm not clear or if I misunderstand your position.

The first thing that pops to my mind is that I would worry that my distance is too close if uke can throw a jab/cross and not have to step. I always try to train in such a way that I can learn to manipulate the distance to cause a feeling of 'immediacy' in the uke. I feel that if I'm toe-to-toe there's no way GSN is coming from a jab, I would feel like I needed to create more distance or space to be able to work in first.

I am talking about pure kata without modification. I am not saying that uke should lunge, I am just naming the move under the label that the "skeptics" have given it. In truth, I am very against training in which people leave that punch out in the air to linger in the wind while tori moves. I believe that as a tori is more proficient, the punch should be pulled back if they are two slow. A tori should move fast enough so that uke does not need to sit there like a statue. A uke should move in proper kamae.

Well it seems that we share many opinions in common! Interestingly, I've found that when training with people much better than I, it doesn't matter if I try to pull the punch back or not. They seem to be able to make me unable to recover by having better balance/distance/timing/whatever-it-is-that-makes-them-good! This is what I'm trying to emulate.

Does this make more sense?

Yes. Thanks!

 

[Rubber Tanto]

Interestingly, I've found that when training with people much better than I, it doesn't matter if I try to pull the punch back or not. They seem to be able to make me unable to recover by having better balance/distance/timing/whatever-it-is-that-makes-them-good! This is what I'm trying to emulate.

yes! eaxctly. I've sparred with people who just seem to fall for some of my methods of wearing them down time and time again, but then there are people at my dojo like Matt, a really talanted nidan who just shuts me down on all fronts with really fluid flanking and and distance/balance taking. His strikes are are with clinical precision and he never looks stressed. It is people like this that keep me going.

(though I do hit harder! )

 

[KageMusha]

It is also a thing to think about that all special forces around the globe train in the "MMA" style of defense. Yes even Japan.

A friend of mine just got out the the SEAL's 2 years ago. They did a simplified version of Yoshin Ryu JuJutsu. Not MMA. I am not saying that some special forces don't do MMA, but to say ALL is a little broad.

 

[KageMusha]

Ronnin. Everyone is telling you that BBT does not do what you are asking of it. You dojo doesn't do what you are asking of it. The art is not going to change, the dojo is not going to change, and if you have different expectations, you shouldn't change. You may be better off training another art that has training practices in line with your expectations rather than trying to change the practices of the one that you are in now - even in that means having to learn different techniques. Techniques are only as good as the practice that goes with them and the ultimate ability to use them against actual opponents. If you don't think you are getting it, you probably are right and its time to change schools or even change systems.

This is what I did, and I couldnt be happier. I trained in Karate/Kickboxing that has some MMA styed training for over 10 years. I wanted something that accually teaches combat, not sport. I tried Kali, then JuJutsu. I eventually found Budo TaiJutsu and it is EXACTLY what I was looking for. I am in the exact oppisite mindset you are in Roninn. But the differance is this: People are telling you that Bujinkan way is better, I accually see it. I would say try other arts, no one will blame you IF you end up comeing back to the Bujinkan someday. And you don't have to think you waisted time either. You would never have known what you needed without doing it. Time enjoyed waisting, was not waisted.

 

[bencole]

Rubber Tanto][/B]In truth, I am very against training in which people leave that punch out in the air to linger in the wind while tori moves. I believe that as a tori is more proficient, the punch should be pulled back if they are two slow. A tori should move fast enough so that uke does not need to sit there like a statue. A uke should move in proper kamae.

Interestingly, I've found that when training with people much better than I, it doesn't matter if I try to pull the punch back or not.

People unfortunately seem to think that the technique is only for the tori to learn....

There is a reason why the uke keeps his arm out when he punches in the Bujinkan. It is important to not toss aside this lesson just because other people do not punch like that.

You can still have "alive training" and be the attacker with the arm out. Rather than tossing the practice aside because it seems "antiquated" or "not real," why not try to make it real through practice?

You should be able to throw a punch, then with that hand still out there, generate enough power through your use of spine, knees, hips and and so on to knock the tori on his backside *WITHOUT* retracting the arm (not to mention all the nasty grabs, tears, etc. that are available). The same principle drives the "thrusting power" of knives, for example. You should not need to have to retract the arm if your initial attack was evaded by the tori. Then move to swords and notice the same thing. Then naginata. Then rope. Etc. etc.

This point is *VERY* important to growth in the art, imo. Naturally, for this to work, you must have perfect alignment, relaxed muscles and so on.

Try to work that aspect of Bujinkan power generation into your training as an uke. It works irrespective of "compliant" or "non-compliant" partners.

-ben

 

[Dale Seago]

It is also a thing to think about that all special forces around the globe train in the "MMA" style of defense. Yes even Japan.

Here's an article by the head of the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) which I feel is very relevant here:

LET'S ROLL???​

The Realities of Armored and Weapons Grappling

Lieutenant Colonel G. H. Bristol, USMC
I still speak to a lot of young Marines about the MCMAP. I still see them get excited about their first belt; the first time they spar; and the first time they do a technique and it works. Like them, I remember a lot of firsts, and, most of all, my first combative love: JUDO. I have had a longstanding affair with Judo - I just passed 38 years of training. I still have my competition medals; old judogi; bad knees; and great memories. I would not change a thing.
However, realities of life have brought to light the weakness of sport grappling. When I was 14, I was stabbed "shooting in" to take another guy down in Providence, Rhode Island. Cut badly, I backed up, picked up a piece of wood, and proceeded to beat the guy to a pulp. Why didn't I pick up the board first? Later, as a Marine, I saw combat and realized that - with all the gear that we need to survive on a battlefield - grappling would never be the action of choice. Had I wasted all those years?
The answer is no, but the MCMAP - and in particular its Instructor population - must "come to grips" (to use a Judo term) with its grappling emphasis and method of instruction. More than any other excess, Marines want to learn how to "roll." It is a fact that the oldest form of male bonding is WRESTLING. As young men, sooner of later we begin to grapple with each other; it is sort of a "king of the hill" experience. Male animals - during the competition for mating - engage in rough grappling prior to choosing up a mate. These tendencies - and the tremendous explosion of grappling and mixed martial arts in mainstream media - have brought grappling to a new level of interest.
The MCMAP - to be viable as a Corps culture entity long-term - must first and foremost maintain its applicability on today's - and tomorrow's - battlefield. Grappling - while first among equals as a sport, a conditioning exponent, and a bonding agent - can become an end in itself and more importantly, a bad habit in real close-in fighting. We are not training Marines to be UFC participants; we are training them for functional efficiency and dominance on a battlefield.
The following essay deals with the realities of grappling training, transmission, and application.
THE ENVIRONMENT
Sport grappling is conducted in a controlled environment. While that environment is rough, hard, and demanding, it is constructed to even up the participants. There are weight classes, rules of what can and cannot be executed, time limits, and safety apparatus (mats, referees, etc) to ensure the conduct of a match is executed within established parameters. I have lost count of the different mixed martial arts (UFC/Shooto/Pancrase et al) that are all grappling organizations.
At the other end of the spectrum is a battlefield: an uncontrolled environment. If two Marines were somehow unarmed and placed in a battlefield situation against one opponent, they could charge him - together; fish hook him and eye gouge him; pick him up and smash him head first on the pavement; and them stomp him to death with their boots. The "contest" would be completely fair.

THE EXPONENTS

I wrote a speech once entitled "All Life's Lessons are Learned in a Wrestling Room." It remains one of the toughest environments on earth. Well conditioned, motivated, and dedicated men push, pull, run, lift, and fall - and then cut weight. It provides an iron will and the ability to bear pain and accept victory and defeat on a minute-by-minute basis. Many of them are in a closed social nexus; it remains a cloistered world. One of my closest friends - legendary Iowa wrestler Joel Sharratt - told me once that "wrestling - at any level - is a total commitment where everything comes second. You eat and breathe it..." When I am interviewing Marines for Recon, if they tell me they have wrestled, I will always give them a shot because of this intensity.
Marines - and I am speaking about the Corps at large - are dedicated individuals as well. However, they rarely get the time to practice their PRIMARY discipline: Rifleman. To even suggest that they would have the time to conduct the arduous specificity that grapplers must endure is simply ridiculous. If anything, the combative training piece must be tailored to give them the most application in the least amount of time.
THE "X" FACTOR
Additionally, the "X" factor is the fact that Marines will rarely - if ever - find an unarmed situation on a battlefield in which sport-style grappling techniques will work without modification. There will be a weapon, a piece of terrain, or a conditioning dilemma as well to blur the purity of the single leg takedown, the counter to the guard, or one of the many situational responses (counter/submission, etc.) found in numerous grappling systems today.
Experienced grapplers can probably weather the storm more readily. An elite level wrestler or grappler can "subdue" unarmed opponents because of high-level repetition. Likewise, their major strength - aggression and lack of fear of contact - makes them good candidates for the transition to weapons-based systems. But to think that teaching a Marine hours of grappling - on a mat with wrestling shoes - will make him effective on a battlefield by hitting the ground is a bad habit that will cost lives.
ELIMINATE THE THREAT-PROTECT THE FORCE-ACCOMPLISH THE MISSION
I believe strongly that the answer lies in Weapons-based grappling. In the past, MCMAP training has included some back-to-back, "go for the knife" engagements that place some reality in close-in fighting. The scenario always plays out the same: the Marine who gets the knife goes wild trying to cut and then Marine who doesn't attempts to keep the knife away. The knife-wielder is super-aggressive and the unarmed opponent is super-defensive. It is a great reality trainer.
I would offer to the MCMAP Instructor community to take it further, using these points as a guideline:
1) Begin all grappling at standing from a distance of 20 or more feet apart
2) Use a combination of weapons (rifle/knife/stick) in dissimilar fashion (IE, one Marine armed with a rifle, one unarmed; one Marine with a knife, one with a stick, etc.)
3) Use full combat gear (to include helmet)
4) Do not train this grappling on a mat - always train it outdoors
5) Conduct the engagement after a brief (but intense) physical event (an Obstacle Course run is perfect)
I have conducted this training at 3d Reconnaissance Battalion on several occasions. I have concluded the following from a GRAPPLING perspective:
1) Going to close-in fighting armed with a weapon teaches the Marine distancing, timing, and targeting to end an engagement before it comes to "Let's wrestle"
2) There is much more of a tendency (after going to the ground once or twice) to use techniques such as the leg sweep (or at the very least off-balancing techniques) to get the opponent to fall - hard - and not fall yourself. The Marines realize that if they "tie up" with weapons that they must execute immediately and not spend time "gripping" with each other
3) Fatigue will allow the Marine to be much more eager to end an engagement quickly, thus saving him from harm (of any level)
4) I have allowed multiple Marines to go against a single opponent. I have NEVER seen a ground fight from one of these situations other than the opponent being beaten to his knees
5) Marines understand better the brutal nature of this type of fighting and use their weapons to end an engagement from proper engagement distance
NO MORE GRAPPLING???
I approach my fourth decade as a grappler with that same love for the sport I had as a boy. I still like to get on a mat and go through some takedown drills or mat work (I even like to hit the sauna to "shed a few" on occasion!). I believe that grappling can be a tremendous conditioner; a motivator; and a bonding experience for Marines. I propose the following for "Grappling CONDITIONING for Marines":
1) MAIs/MAITs should view/participate in a wrestling practice run by a high school/college coach (Joel Sharratt is my ideal)
2) Emphasize MOVEMENT, MOBILITY, and BASIC TIE-UP, TAKEDOWN, and GROUND CONTROL - nothing fancy.
3) Stress REPETITION and CHANGING PARTNERS
4) Limit the "Choke Hold Number 74" thing for small groups. Most of the non-grapplers will never do these fancy techniques enough to ever make them work anyway.
5) Place some calisthenics, tumbling, and plyometric movement into the mix.
6) Use college-wrestling videos to motivate Marines to train with enthusiasm. One of the greatest is DAN GABLE - COMPETITOR SUPREME.
7) Use the sauna - a wrestling staple - for a post workout-bonding agent. Due it safely!
8) Don't do it too often. Keep Marines motivated to do it, but stress the realities of weapons. 90% of the "grappling program" should be weapons-based grappling.
I have never heard of a battle being won with a "high crotch" or a submission hold. A rifle and bayonet has carried the day for the Corps "in every clime and place." The reality is that Marines will do what they think is fun before they will do what is hard. Grappling - with all its effort - fun. Killing is not. The MCMAP must remain functional, not strive to be popular nor allow itself to wander from its basic endeavor: AN INTEGRATED FIGHTING SYSTEM FOR ALL MARINES.

(https://www.tbs.usmc.mil/Pages/MA/media/docs/docs/LET'S ROLL.htm)

 

[DWeidman]

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,040 for daniel weidman bujinkan. (0.19 seconds)

So rather than posting "I would love to find him," you could have done two things: (1) Googled the two of them and located them in a combined 1 full second! (2) Asked the person who recommended the teachers if he knew their contact information.

...So why not just spend the day *NOT POSTING* and instead follow up on the two points that have been raised for you: (1) See if you can figure out how to do Age Uchi *WITHOUT* the bo (and *WITHOUT* your teacher) and (2) Find David or Dan?

It's just a suggestion.

-ben

Or just ask me on here -- and I can PM you my contact information (or just email me at Daniel @ TenChiJinDojo.com

;-)

-Daniel Weidman

 

[KageMusha]

Or just ask me on here -- and I can PM you my contact information (or just email me at Daniel @ TenChiJinDojo.com

;-)

-Daniel Weidman

But that would make sence.......

 

[shinbushi]

Same here [email protected]