real life self defense techniques

[MJS]

What would I do? i dont know. People ask that question all the time, but when you think about it, how can anyone really say what they'd do? You cant. There is no way to predict a situation, so you pretty much just have to do what you feel is best at the time.

As for the big vs. small debate. LOL, this is something that has been going on a loooooooooong time. IMO, I think that its not the size that matters, but the tech. of the people involved. Sure, dont get me wrong, a big guy can be intimidating and probably hit harder, but that doesnt mean that they can fight any better. Someone mentioned the UFC. That is a poor example and heres why. In the first few, there was no weight class. That was something that was added in later fights. Royce Gracie was by far not the biggest guy there and yet he had no problem dealing with bigger guys. You look at the fights now, and yeah, they have weight classes. Even back then, all you'd see was a bigger guy pounding away at the smaller guy and he ended up winning. The fact of the matter is, is that the smaller guy had no tech. and neither did the big guy. Look at Tank. He got beat 3 times in a row by guys with tech. and Tank is no light weight.

Gracie fought Severn who out weighed him alot and he used tech. to win that fight. When you have 2 people with equal size like you do now, it all comes down to who has the better technique!

Mike

 

[celtic bhoy]

I thought this was about real self defence? Not punching pads in a taekwon do class.

We all know a good big one will beat a good little one and we all know men hit harder than women.

People win with action, reaction, good training and the ability to change their game plan minute to minute. Ability can always beat pure physicality.

Bruce Lee, Royce Gracie and Evander Holyfield were smaller than nearly all their opponents, didn't stop them winning. Anyone remember Sugar Ray leonard v Donny LaLonde?

A 110lb woman can beat any man, she only has to kick him in the family jewels! Size certainly would not matter there!!

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I have noticed that many MA provide techniques that are perfect for dealing with larger people including eye strikes, ear strikes, elbow breaks and knee breaks.

Bruce...good point on certain techniques being more effective than others. I agree. But the edge they can provide can be nullified to some extent by size. Eye strikes, for instance...the smaller person has to close the gap on the bigger fighter and reach up so as to get access to the target.

I've pointed out elsewhere on this forum that when we're talking "real life self defense" we have to account for the size of the defender, and his or her capacities. Many of us here assume that the defender is young, male, healthy, and of average size (whatever the heck that is). If the defender is a female, five feet two, 105 pounds, with six months experience...that changes things dramatically.

As I write this there is a young coed training on the mat fitting that description. In yesterday's Hapkido class I had two men training...one was nineteen, 285, six feet two. The other was a fit 48, six feet two, and a big boned 225 (with fingers the size of bratwursts). Contrast their size in your minds.

Now let us examine the quote by "The Kicking Fiend", below:

For example, take bone strength, to my knowledge bone strength does not greatly vary among individuals and so if you can do a sidekick hard and fast to the ribs I don't see what advantage a big guy would really have

I DEFY any of you to train this young woman--or one like her-- for five years and have her kick a guy of the dimensions I described in the ribs and have it work. Will you be able to provide me with an anecdote? Surely. Dig and you will find one somewhere describing some girl who nailed a guy in the ribs thus, and dropped him. But I submit it will not be, and will never be the norm...regardless of anecdotal evidence.

He further states:

Martial artists (at least in my experience) condition and have taken hits before too. You say a big man could take a bigger hit, I really don't think their KO threshold is any bigger and as for lighter hits we shouldn't be throwing them.

I agree that many martial artists train to take a hit. Some don't, but many do. As for KO threshold, were this NOT a factor, we would see the lightweights in boxing and NHB fighting the heavyweights...weight classes be damned. Do you honestly think Ray Leonard or Roberto Duran could have knocked out Ali? Do you think these two premier lightweights could have weathered Foreman's punches as well as Ali? This isn't even an arguable point.

The UFC analogy was brought up...probably by me...and Mike pointed out that Royce Gracie easily beat larger people. This is quite true. It is also one of the few exceptions to the rule. This leads to fallacious thinking when we start to think "Royce did it, therefore I can do it."

And what about Tank? He is beaten easily by others with superior training. But none of these guys are lightweights by any measure.

If size isn't the issue, where are the women in the UFC? If the premise some of you hold is true, then surely there are trained women who can best Tank Abbott...correct?

"Kicking Fiend", if you want to test yourself on Abbott, drive to Huntington Beach and look him up. Work your side kick on him. Tell me how it goes.



Regards,


Steve

 

[Marginal]

Originally posted by glad2bhere
".......The big guy also has the advantage of being able to keep you outside via means of having a longer reach. I've gone against big slow guys that are very easy to get in on, but against a big guy who also happens to be fast and who knows what they're doing. Just being controlled by their superior weight and strength can cause a whole lotta problems that you simply don't have to deal with vs an opponent who is your size or smaller....."


I am having a hard time following the logic here. It sounds as though you are wanting to fight with a larger person. Why would you do that?

It's more of a question of what happens when you assume that size doesn't matter, that all bones break under the same pressure, so you can therefore nullify the attacker no matter how large they happen to be.

Besides, if the larger person has a modicum of skill, things may not go as happily as you'd like them to.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by hardheadjarhead

The UFC analogy was brought up...probably by me...and Mike pointed out that Royce Gracie easily beat larger people. This is quite true. It is also one of the few exceptions to the rule. This leads to fallacious thinking when we start to think "Royce did it, therefore I can do it."

Royce learned his BJJ from his father, who himself, was a small man. Helio Gracie had to adapt the techniques to fit his body style. He is very technical and really doesnt need to rely on the strength aspect as much. Now you look at someone like Vitor Belfort. Another BJJ stylist who trained under Calrson Gracie. IMO, I could see him relying more on power than tech.

And what about Tank? He is beaten easily by others with superior training. But none of these guys are lightweights by any measure.

You're correct. The guys hes fought are not lightweights, but they are not quite as heavy as he is. Pedro Rizzo fought him and KO'd him with a punch. A huge size differnece.

If size isn't the issue, where are the women in the UFC? If the premise some of you hold is true, then surely there are trained women who can best Tank Abbott...correct?

I wish that they would start a womens division. I think that it would be great.

"Kicking Fiend", if you want to test yourself on Abbott, drive to Huntington Beach and look him up. Work your side kick on him. Tell me how it goes.

LOL! No comment on this one. Well, ok, I'll comment. LOL!

Keep in mind, that the UFC has ALOT of rules. More rules today than they had back in 93 when it started. Tank is a brawler..PERIOD! Regardless of a win or a loss, I like Tank. I enjoy seeing him fight, and sure I'm sure he gets pi**ed when he looses, but I really dont think he cares. As quoted by Tank: "I dont give a f***. I"m here for one reason and one reason only, and thats to kick a**!" Tank is VERY intimidating and he uses that VERY well. The thing that he needs to work on, and this probably being his biggest downfall is his cardio. If he cant KO you in the first few minutes, he runs out of gas. He talked the talk before his last fight with 'Cabbage' but Cabbage wasnt intimidated, went in there, and got the win.

Would I want to fight Tank? Hell no! I think the best way to fight him on the street would be with some leg kicks, which in the past, have taken a toll on him. A hit to the eye or groin might be an option too.

If size was that much of a factor, then rather than train in a MA, everyone would just go out, eat like crazy, lift like crazy, and get on the 'juice' Tank is a dirty fighter and IMO the only way to beat someone thats dirty is to be dirty yourself!

Mike

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I wish that they would start a womens division. I think that it would be great.

I agree...and I know a young lady who'd work towards fighting in it. I'd protest, however, if they tried to match her up with Pedro, Vitor, or Tank.

You pointed out that Pedro wasn't as big as Tank...and you're correct. When you see people who weigh 145-165 knocking out the guys in the heavyweight division regularly...get back with me. I'll want to tune in more often when that happens. IF that happens Mike, you're welcome to come here and watch it. I'll pick up the Pay Per View bill, buy the beer, and make a public admission in front of the students in my school that I was wrong.

A thought on Tank...he, more than anyone in the UFC, might be the perfect example of what one might run into when confronted with a large sociopath in a self defense situation. I've seen a number of people like him...large crude fighters with bad tempers and a mean streak that is nothing short of chilling.

Though the UFC doesn't recreate a self defense scenario realistically...

("Whooooa...Abbot picked up a pipe! He's hitting Rizzo on the arms. Rizzo is DOWN! Oh my God! Tank is now ripping into "Big John" McCarthy! Wait a minute...Rizzo's manager has jumped over the fence with what looks like...it is...a broken bottle...folks, we haven't seen action like this since Ken Shamrock came out of retirement and stabbed Tito Ortiz in the eye with a screwdriver!")

...it is still a wonderful venue for the development of techniques that can lead to the growth of the arts.

Skill CAN overcome size. I should have aknowledged that early on, as now I risk sounding as if I'm beating a retreat...which I'm not. Skill does give us a greater edge and more options in self defense. But it isn't a panacea, nor does it easily nullify an antagonists greater mass.

I'm counseling against the overconfidence of youth and the illusions brought on by our love of training in the arts. We often readily come to believe we will be the ones to prevail against any comer, regardless of size, because we've put time on the mat. There are too many variables effecting conflict to assume, for example, that a side kick will drop a large attacker.

I do not mean to be cynical. I'm suggesting caution in one's approach to thinking about "real life self defense". There are certain realities that need to be considered. Tossing them to the winds can result in disaster.

Regards,


Steve

 

[Marginal]

Originally posted by celtic bhoy
I thought this was about real self defence? Not punching pads in a taekwon do class.

Yeah yeah, TKD is terrible etc. Anyway, the point can be summed up like this too...

1) Anyone can throw a punch.
2) Someone with sufficient mass can break the stance/base of a defender lacking in mass

This leads to the smaller person staggering backwards while the attacker's free to wade in should the defender attempt to block the strike rather than get out of the way etc.

This applies in SD as much as it does in class.

We all know a good big one will beat a good little one and we all know men hit harder than women.

Then why do you want to pretend it doesn't matter?

Ability can always beat pure physicality.

I'd say ability can help level the field, but it cannot fully supplant basic mechanical advantage.

Bruce Lee, Royce Gracie and Evander Holyfield were smaller than nearly all their opponents, didn't stop them winning. Anyone remember Sugar Ray leonard v Donny LaLonde?

Funny how Holyfield doesn't compete as a welterweight or a flyweight...

A 110lb woman can beat any man, she only has to kick him in the family jewels! Size certainly would not matter there!!

Doesn't always work. What's the fallback?

 

[celtic bhoy]

Well then we better make it a rule that you must not be a woman or weigh under 140 lb to learn self defence.

I hope Marginal never becomes an instructor as he seems lacking in imparting confidence to small people.

While I agree the law of averages states that a smaller should be at a disadvantage. It is also a fact that nothing is set in stone in a self defence situation.

Its not about outstrengthing and outpunching, it's about being skillful enough to preserve your own life and escape.

If you damage someone too much even in self defence, in britain it could be you going to prison.

Please note these few points Marginal

1. You would not have time to get into a stance.
2. Bigger people can be less mobile.
3. Someone who trains is always at an advantage to someone who doesn't, they would train with a view to negating their size, weight deficiencies or any other handicap.
4. Fallback??.......bite, gauge, run, scream or learn Wing Chun ( initiated by a small buddhist nun I believe).
5. Evander Holyfield and Flyweights?..................Don't shame yourself so publicly.


I am a 1st kup in ITF Taekwon Do and I have never said it is rubbish. I am just honest enough to admit that it is not flawless as a style. But then no style is.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Steve:

".......I do not mean to be cynical. I'm suggesting caution in one's approach to thinking about "real life self defense". There are certain realities that need to be considered. Tossing them to the winds can result in disaster......"

I honestly think we are on the same page with this. It's just a matter of degree.

I would never tell someone that size counts not at all. That would be foolish. So does skill and experience and speed. What I am having difficulty with is the idea of feeling limited by these variables when I know that the MA provide for dealing with them.
People need to train purposefully not just to learn the technique but also foster the willingness to use what they have learned.

I also want to mention once again that there are an awful lot of references to competition by people wanting to make arguements for self-defense. Though there is a relationship between the two, that relationship is not 1:1. Just the same as wrestling and boxing can also have S-D applications, we must remember that there are rules to safeguard the well-being of the participants. To my way of thinking there are no such rules in S-D. The minute one starts being limited by safeguards the situation stops being S-D and becomes sparring. It is for this reason that people train hard as they do. Hopefully one learns that knowing how readily damge another human being will make them reluctant to use those skills in all but the most dire circumstances.FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[the_kicking_fiend]

[In response to hardhead's post]

Going back to the young woman hitting the six feet two guy, I think it's a little misguided to think that she could not break the ribs. I've trained with Becky Riggs before and seen her break and god damn she would take your ribs down no problem! When you take a very well trained individual like that, she wouldn't have much problem defending against a street thug if he's 6'2.

You make several referenecs to famous martial artists of large size being too powerful for smaller fighters. This is not a valid argument since Ali isn't going to be on the streets looking for fights much anymore. The topic was self defence, not UFC bouts, not boxing rings or any competitive form. We're really looking at in the street, one punch one KO. A martial artist can deliver that and many large men can't depsite their size. I'm not talking about 7th kups or anything, I'm talking about the dedicated martial artists.

Me against Abbot? Same as before Abbot doesn't hang around my neighbourhood much trying to mug me!

Getting back to the argument, when I think of some of the female or small light weight fighters I've seen in my time, I cannot see how they could be overwhelmed by sheer size and no skill. Real training and skill will always overcome the size of untrained aggressors.

d

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I also want to mention once again that there are an awful lot of references to competition by people wanting to make arguements for self-defense. Though there is a relationship between the two, that relationship is not 1:1.

Certainly. I couldn't agree more (as indicated by my little fiction of a pipe being introduced by Tank...that'd be interesting). Combat sports do, however, display the application of certain universal maxims.

I agree you and I are on the same page, Bruce. Ditto Marginal and Rich.

Well then we better make it a rule that you must not be a woman or weigh under 140 lb to learn self defence.

Not at all. I never suggested that. What we ought NOT do is give women a sense of false confidence by telling them that they'll be able to incapacitate an attacker, regardless of size, with a specific technique...or that skill will always overcome size. It will not.

For sure, size is not the sole determining factor of outcome in any conflict. But it can not be overcome merely by performing a simple set of techniques. Some on this thread have suggested here and elsewhere that a kick to the head or ribs, or a well connected punch to the jaw will handily rectify the situation.

Propogate these simplistic solutions and some gullible student will start placing undue faith in them.

Ability can always beat pure physicality.

Ah...an absolute. One that assumes that the big guy has no natural skill, no training (formal or otherwise), is slow, lacks any saavy and that the defender's skill and health are at their zenith.

I hope Marginal never becomes an instructor as he seems lacking in imparting confidence to small people.

Celtic Boy, that was an unprovoked ad hominem attack.

I think if he's an instructor, or becomes one, he's going to impart a measure of realism to his smaller students. That, I submit, will be a very responsible thing. Far better than advocating a simple kick to the "family jewels".


Regards,


Steve

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Going back to the young woman hitting the six feet two guy, I think it's a little misguided to think that she could not break the ribs. I've trained with Becky Riggs before and seen her break and god damn she would take your ribs down no problem! When you take a very well trained individual like that, she wouldn't have much problem defending against a street thug if he's 6'2.

Not at all misguided. I was talking about a young coed, not Becky Riggs. Regardless, I think it premature to say Ms. Riggs "wouldn't have much problem" defending against a street thug of such size. This isn't intended disrespect her or to minimize her abilities, but breaking boards and fighting in a tournament are quite a bit different than facing an attacker.

You make several referenecs to famous martial artists of large size being too powerful for smaller fighters. This is not a valid argument since Ali isn't going to be on the streets looking for fights much anymore. The topic was self defence, not UFC bouts, not boxing rings or any competitive form. We're really looking at in the street, one punch one KO.

Its a valid analogy, and I've acknowledged its limitations. You see no contradiction by then listing a young woman who is a Tae Kwon Do tournament fighter and using her as an icon for self defense skills?

Me against Abbot? Same as before Abbot doesn't hang around my neighbourhood much trying to mug me!

No. But Tank is hardly unique. There are others out there like him.

Getting back to the argument, when I think of some of the female or small light weight fighters I've seen in my time, I cannot see how they could be overwhelmed by sheer size and no skill.

I've seen some superb small fighters and female fighters in my time, as well. I think they all have a far better chance in self defense than an untrained person of their same dimension. However I would not suggest they blissfully enter into combat against a large person of whom they know little about and rely on their good ol' side kicks. Further, I don't think any of them would agree with you, nor hold your confidence.

Real training and skill will always overcome the size of untrained aggressors.

Not always. It may increase your chances for success...but it isn't a sure thing.


Regards,


Steve

 

[glad2bhere]

I don't remember who mentioned it first but I thought I would just say a quick word about the groin as a target.

I know this spot gets an awful lot of play in the media and anyone who has played sports knows what happens when contact is made in this area. I just wanted to say the the debilitating response people expect does not always follow. People who have been in many street fights often build a considerable tolerance to pain and that includes getting hit in the groin. One can also add to this the desensitization to pain that occurs in combat or threatening situations. It has also become popular to wear cups among gangs as it not only offers protection but also suggests a greater "endowment" than Nature may have intended. Finally, I teach my students multiple strikes to multiple targets for what I have often heard called "total body shock". In this way the nervous system is more greatly impacted by two or three strikes to a number of sensitive areas, including groin, eyes, ears, throat, bladder, kidneys, etc., rather than putting all of ones hope in a single correct strike to one target. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I just wanted to say the the debilitating response people expect does not always follow.

Excellent point, Bruce.

Nothing is a sure stop in self defense. People have been shot or stabbed in the heart and still had the ability to continue their aggression for a significant amount of time...sometimes killing the person that injured them.

I had my left testicle crushed by a kick. For thirty or so seconds afterwards I was able to fight, more or less. I couldn't move very fast, but I had the capacity to choke or stab. That strength was left me (it was a sparring match, so I didn't try this). Note too that I never dropped. I stayed on my feet for about fifteen or twenty minutes before collapsing in shock.

The groin is a good target...but sometimes not so easy to hit.

When talking about "real life self defense techniques", we also have to look at where the attack is taking place. Our panacea techniques can go flying out the window when we get attacked in places and in circumstances we haven't trained for. Most of us here train regularly on very flat surfaces with good traction. The location of an attack may not be so perfectly planed.

Right now outside of my office there is an ice storm in effect...the pavement is slick. Twenty yards away the ground is broken, uneven, and has huge rocks. There are clumps of bushes and roots sticking out.

Kicks to the groin, chest, or head just ain't going to happen out there today.

What if I'm attacked in my car? Not likely? How about my wife? It was attempted once at an intersection, but she had locked her passenger door and the perp couldn't get in the car. What if she had forgotten to do that? How would the seat belt limited her?

We need to consider these situations when designing our self defense drills.

Regards,

Steve

 

[celtic bhoy]

hardheadjarhead/marginal

I appologise for my outburst. I just like to believe anything is possible.

I try not to predict the outcome, I try to predict the possible outcome.

We all have our views, that is our entitlement as humans.

I will always believe that its the size of the fight in the dog and not the size of the dog in the fight.

Best regards

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I took no offense to your comment, Celticboy, as it wasn't directed at me.

I will always believe that its the size of the fight in the dog and not the size of the dog in the fight.

I would agree that is also a necessary variable, if not a critical one. But we need to remember that the size of the fight in a big guy can be pretty impressive.

There is nothing wrong, either, with optimism...as long as its tempered with a dose of good sense.

I teach a lot of little people along with the two behemoths I mentioned (one of whom we've nicknamed "Mongo"). I never, at any point, say it is impossible to deal with a big attacker. But it is an issue and something that has to be realistically factored into training. I'm not about to tell a twelve year old boy he can take out a "Mongo" handily.

Note: I'm just under five eight, and weigh about one eighty. My adult weight has varied from 143 to 197, depending on my training regimen and age.

So, I'm no giant...and like many here I have had to deal with larger folks for all of my martial arts career. The best of those that taught me, some of the best martial artists I've known, have been my size or smaller.

But know I'm not working from a particular bias against little people. Nor am I saying that training is futile in the face of a large attacker. When faced with a large attacker, we have no choice but to rely on our training, brains, and spirit. We can not magically grow larger to deal with the threat.

Okay, Bruce Banner can. Sure. He might be the exception. You'll never see Peter Parker kicking his butt, though.



Regards,


Steve

 

[Marginal]

I'll preface this by saying that there was no offense taken, and my responses here are to help my own thought processes as much as they are to accomplish anyhting else.

Originally posted by celtic bhoy
Well then we better make it a rule that you must not be a woman or weigh under 140 lb to learn self defence.

I think you have to keep in mind what works for someone might not work for everyone. I'm not saying nothing ever works, but if I can power out of a wristlock applied by someone half my size simply by pulling my arm in, (and I'm about average as far as strength goes) I'm certainly not going to strongly suggest that it's an ideal conflict ender.

I hope Marginal never becomes an instructor as he seems lacking in imparting confidence to small people.

As I'm a 4th gup, I'm about a minimum of 2 years from having to worry about instructing anyone. Moot since I've heard similar sentiments from my instructors though. Some of them are women, so I figure they understand the situation better than me regardless.

(Personally, my primary self defense tool is doing whatever I can to avoid/defuse potential self defense situations before they can happen.)

While I agree the law of averages states that a smaller should be at a disadvantage. It is also a fact that nothing is set in stone in a self defence situation.

Yes, and that's largely why training's worthwhile IMO. I do think that the disadvantage is there regarldess, but it can be blunted through training to a degree. Of course, your thought also holds true for the attacker. Just takes one knife thrust, a buddy etc to turn a self defense situation into your murder investigation.

Its not about outstrengthing and outpunching, it's about being skillful enough to preserve your own life and escape.

I've only been physically attacked twice, and I stopped the first one by going limp, and the second by standing up and staring at the other kid who had attacked me with his book bag. (Caught me in the back of the head...) Avoided serious damage in both cases without any MA tecuniques. (Well, I did throw one ineffective front snap kick in the former's case, but it didn't stop the actual attack.)

1. You would not have time to get into a stance.

That wasn't my point. I wouldn't advocate striking a stance in a SD situation even if you had the time. Too easy to have it lead to needless escalation. The point was, she was in stance (a walking stance to be exact), and I still knocked her off balance.

If she was set in a stance speficically designed to be strong against a frontal strike, and it knocked her off kilter, where would she be against someone boppinh her while she was standing normally?

I'm thinking, on the ground.

2. Bigger people can be less mobile.

Yep. They can also be quick.

3. Someone who trains is always at an advantage to someone who doesn't, they would train with a view to negating their size, weight deficiencies or any other handicap.

Perhaps, but how many people have received training that'd serve them in a fight? Would you want to fight a Rugby player? A wrestler? An American football player? There's a sizeable list of activities that create potential hardcases (or if not hardcases, people who can take a hit without flinching) while leaving the people technically untrained in a MA.

4. Fallback??.......bite, gauge, run, scream or learn Wing Chun ( initiated by a small buddhist nun I believe).

The problem there is that Wing Chun takes ~3 years to learn. Doesn't help the groin kicker as a fallback unless she's actually studied it. Biting's an irritant, running's a possibility, but if she's close enough to deliver the kick, she's probably within arm's reach etc.

5. Evander Holyfield and Flyweights?..................Don't shame yourself so publicly.

It's a valid question. If size doesn't matter, why not have Holyfield fight a flyweight? I mean, if the flyweight was really, really skilled... He'd surely win, wouldn't he? (Eh, all I'm trying to say here is that the flyweight could probably outspeed Holyfield, but Holyfield wouldn't have to do a whole lot to walk away with a win and a seriously injured opponent.)

MOre food for thought, most boxing pundits doubt that Roy Jones Jr will ever fight Lewis simply because Lewis is too big for Jones. They're both heavyweights aren't they? Isn't Jones supposed to be the best PFP boxer in the world? His skills should therefore, clearly win the day... Right?

I am a 1st kup in ITF Taekwon Do and I have never said it is rubbish. I am just honest enough to admit that it is not flawless as a style. But then no style is.

I don't believe TKD is flawless as a style either. On the other hand, I don't believe that in class training's irrelevant to SD situations either. (Or at least, it shoudln't be limited to the ho shin sul parts of the class.) They may not be 1:1 or even 1:5 in some cases, but they do add up. (Or at least they should. If they don't, you're probably wasting your time...)

 

[celtic bhoy]

Good stuff!! You have my respect.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by hardheadjarhead

You pointed out that Pedro wasn't as big as Tank...and you're correct. When you see people who weigh 145-165 knocking out the guys in the heavyweight division regularly...get back with me. I'll want to tune in more often when that happens. IF that happens Mike, you're welcome to come here and watch it. I'll pick up the Pay Per View bill, buy the beer, and make a public admission in front of the students in my school that I was wrong.

Well Steve, thanks for the invite, but with the rules that they have in place now, including the weight divisions, I dont see that happening any time soon. Look at the frist few UFC events, and they will give you a very good example of this. I'll give you a few details. UFC 1: That Savate guy Gerard fighting that HUGE Sumo dude. Gerard beat the crap out of him. UFC 3- Keith Hackney and yet another Sumo dude. Sure, he pushed Hackney through the gate portion of the fence, but this wasnt a Sumo fight, its the UFC! And hackney came back in and beat the hell out of him. You also have the David vs. Goliath UFC event, where they pitted small vs big. If I remember correctly, Jerry Bohlander beat Scott Ferrozo with a choke. I'm sure there were more but I'd have to go and look.

A thought on Tank...he, more than anyone in the UFC, might be the perfect example of what one might run into when confronted with a large sociopath in a self defense situation. I've seen a number of people like him...large crude fighters with bad tempers and a mean streak that is nothing short of chilling.

Yup, you're correct. Dont forget though that every big Tank Abbott looking dude is going to have the fighting expereince that Tank does.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by the_kicking_fiend
[In response to hardhead's post]

Going back to the young woman hitting the six feet two guy, I think it's a little misguided to think that she could not break the ribs. I've trained with Becky Riggs before and seen her break and god damn she would take your ribs down no problem! When you take a very well trained individual like that, she wouldn't have much problem defending against a street thug if he's 6'2.

You make several referenecs to famous martial artists of large size being too powerful for smaller fighters. This is not a valid argument since Ali isn't going to be on the streets looking for fights much anymore. The topic was self defence, not UFC bouts, not boxing rings or any competitive form. We're really looking at in the street, one punch one KO. A martial artist can deliver that and many large men can't depsite their size. I'm not talking about 7th kups or anything, I'm talking about the dedicated martial artists.

Me against Abbot? Same as before Abbot doesn't hang around my neighbourhood much trying to mug me!

Getting back to the argument, when I think of some of the female or small light weight fighters I've seen in my time, I cannot see how they could be overwhelmed by sheer size and no skill. Real training and skill will always overcome the size of untrained aggressors.

d

I agree with this statement!!! I have a friend who teaches the Filipino arts. He also has an excellent grappling background and trains some of his fighters to compete in UFC type events. He has a girlfriend who also trains with him at his school. I have seen her fight both standing and on the ground and I can only say one thing about her-- SHE KICKS A**!!!! She has no problem fighting someone bigger be it standing or grappling. And I'll tell you another thing. I would be more than happy to have her have my back in a fight over some males fighters that I know!!

Mike