Ready position for hyung.

[RTKDCMB]

I was thinking the other day (always dangerous) about the ready positions; A,B and C stances and the first movements of the individual patterns.

A Stance from Won hyo, first movement is a twin forearm block which starts from crossing the arms on the chest.

B stance from Chun gun and Toi gye, first movement is an inner reverse knife hand block and inner forearm block respectively which both start from crossing the arms with the blocking arm close to the hip.

C stance from Hwa rang, first movement is an inward palm block which starts from the hip.

In each case the first movement starts from about the save height as the hand position in the ready stance.

Thoughts?

 

[Earl Weiss]

I teach some alternate apps for the ready stances. For instance raising the hands to CRS-A for Won Hyo can serve as a defense to someone attempting to grab your neck. From there you can also morph to a grappling application.

I have also seen the first moves of Chun Gun and Toi Gye morphed for Bear Hug from the rear defense.

While you may practice Hwa Rang #1 as stated, this is not what the founder stipulates. (According to the founder it is a plam pushing block performed at shoulder level and the push is straight ahead used to unbalance the attacker, not push the attacking tool) Although if memory serves you are from Rhee TKD with this "Rhee" being a pioneer of TKD In Australia who was a CDK product as was Pioneer Han Cha Kyo who was instrumental in developing thi pattern and I really have no clue how it may have evolved from what was taught or practiced in a root pattern taught at the CDK.

 

[RTKDCMB]

While you may practice Hwa Rang #1 as stated, this is not what the founder stipulates.(According to the founder it is a plam pushing block performed at shoulder level and the push is straight ahead used to unbalance the attacker, not push the attacking tool)

It was not set in stone, whenever a group splinters off there are bound to be some changes. There are many differences in the way we do the hyung from the way the ITF teaches. Another example from the same pattern is from the twin forearm blocks we do a hammer fist to the temple instead of an uppercut.

 

[Earl Weiss]

It was not set in stone, whenever a group splinters off there are bound to be some changes. QUOTE]

Actualy it was set in stone (or the modern equivelent, the printed page) since at least 1965. Some groups may make changes, or perhaps they are simply mistakes. One never knows unless "it is set in stone" via written records. Perhaps Rhee TKD created such reference works? Even Han Cha Kyo who was one of the people responsible for creating the pattern made a change. (Never written down during his lifetime to my knowledge) I was acquainted with some of his seniors who practiced it with the change, unaware there was a change and asked an even more senior member about the way they did it and he was incredulous about my stroy about how they were doing it. It was not until i asked Nam Tae Hi about it that he indicated "That Han Cha Kyo technique" meaning that was something Han devised and had his students do.

Now to the point of your original post :
"In each case the first movement starts from about the save height as the hand position in the ready stance." Depending on how one views or defines the start of the technique, this does not apply to Hwa Rang as designed. The overlapping hands for close ready stance C are below the umbilicus and the hand is first raised to the shoulder level and extended horizontaly at the shoulder level. It does not start from the same level as the ready stance.

What might be of interest is if you were to discover a predecessor pattern fron the CDK, Shorin or Shorei systems that did in fact have the start and finish of the motions that fit your premise.

 

[Earl Weiss]

.... Another example from the same pattern is from the twin forearm blocks we do a hammer fist to the temple instead of an uppercut.

I would be interested in seeing this. Any You Tube examples?

 

[RTKDCMB]

I would be interested in seeing this. Any You Tube examples?

Not that I am aware of. I have a poor quality video somewhere of me in my former back yard performing patterns, I will locate it and put something up later if I think of it.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Many pioneers had certain had habits from other systems that filtered thru to techniques and were learned that way by the\ir progeny. A common one is progeny of CDK people like Jhoon Rhee, He Il Cho, HU Lee, Han Cha Kyo performing the twin outer forearm block (Won Hyo #s 1&4) starting with fists at the rear hip and traveling diagonaly upward as opposed toarm s starting like Rising and outer forearm blocks / crossed and moving in that fashion. The 1972 Test even has an illustration with the diagonal lines - later eliminated. When I see a pattern performed this way it means the student has strong CDK roots.