React to an attack or Pre-Empt it? Any advice?

[still learning]

Hello, Sometimes it is best to attack first...no two situtions will be the same...got to trust your instincts here.

Two thoughts, wait and counter or hit first..especially if the attacker is not backing down.

Most of us do not want to get into a fight...so we hold back.....But there will be times...in the "art of war"....it will always be an advantage to hit first!

In most fights..the person hitting first will have the advantage..especially when you do not want to get into a fight. The attacker knows what he wants to do to you.

Know your state laws on this....many times the person who hits first will get arrested, but if your life or your family was in danger...and your reaction was to attack first..because of there/his intend...than the law may be on your side.

NO right or wrong...just using what your instincts tells you to do..if need to react first...go for it! ....remember the first striking person will always have the advantage......Just my thoughts on this....Aloha

PS:You can always run away in stead of staying around...? for something to happen...don't let it happen!

 

[Jenna]

I'll also say this - granting that I lead a fairly quiet life, and don't often go into situations where self-defense is required, I have learned to be more aware of my surroundings than I used to be. In college, I used to walk around campus wearing headphones and reading a book, with just enough attention on what I was doing and where I was going to avoid running into people and solid objects (trees, building, etc.). I was a prime target, a victim waiting to be attacked. Now I no longer do such things, and my risk of being attacked has decreased immensely - so in that sense, I consider avoidance and awareness to be a pre-emptive strike. As far as the question I think you're really asking - I suppose there are some situations in which one might need to strike first rather than waiting to be attacked, but as I said before, they are so individual that I cannot give a specific example; it depends too much on the details of the situation and the people involved. I find it to be more likely to need to attack before being attacked in a situation which involves someone who had attacked you before - for example, I was, some years ago, stalked and harassed by a man I refused to date, and ended up filing a restraining order; depending on your definition, filing the order was a pre-emptive strike because, unlike many of the other filers (all women) who filed the day that I did, I had never been struck by the person who was stalking me - nor was I going to wait until he did. There are certain circumstances in which I might have physically attacked him had he come near me - luckily, that did not happen, but I did have a plan in case it did, especially as he had been a competitive karateka when he was younger (at the national level), and was over a foot taller and 100 pounds heavier than I was. But that's the only time in the 19 years I've been in TKD that I've even considered such a thing.

Hello Kacey, What you have said is super and thank you for taking the time to reply. I appreciate it a lot Regarding avoidance as a key to preemption, I agree completely. How you describe making improvements in situational awareness - the headphones and stuff, I can relate to that. You sound very very intelligent and Iam certain you will understand the difference between avoiding a situation by not being there in the first place and trying on the other hand to avoid a situation which seems to be active in seeking you out? I have taken off my proverbial headphones. I listen for sounds and watch for signs. I do all that but still, in the practical sense for me, I feel my options for avoidance are diminishing in number by the day. I like Belgium, I love chocolate more than I can tell ya but I am not here as a tourist.

For the last few days I've been receiving lots of frankly quite peculiar text messages - anonymous andno number. I didn't know that could be done. The annoying thing is that the texts are just saying stuff like "is the wrld treatn u well?" and "hope 2 cu soon" and "jst keep smilin" and I don't know if it's meant as a joke. But if so, the timing's really really not so good for me. Yesterday as I was leaving my room key at the reception I was handed a letter - addressed to me as a visitor at the hotel and posted near here in Antwerp. It was empty. I called up my friends back in London but no one admits to pranking me and I have heard rumours of rumours of trouble on the move if you know what I mean. And I'm thinking now that I should go home but I'm wondering if that will be an even more stupid idea? I've got family back home but nobody close and nobody I can call up that'd be of any practical help. This is MY problem and my mess and I can only assume my stupid fault. I'm trying not to be morbid, I'm not usually a morbid person and I've checked the train timetables to take me further south into Liege.

Kacey, how far do YOU go to avoid? There's a line from Star Trek - yeah I know stop groaning but it's after a beating has been handed out already. The line is "This far and no further!" I suppose it's the essence of the Taiji symbol, you know, the yin and yang, the soft and giving outer with the hard core. How far into the pliable outer do you go before hitting the unyielding core?

I don't like fights I really dont. I'm trying my best to avoid but I am concerned that the trouble is coming regardless. DO I tell myself my outer layers have been breached and I am at the core imminently and face the trouble head on? Do I became the aggressor?. I am confident in my Aikido. But at the minute I do not feel confident in my ability to work it. I am the weak link in the chain and the faulty cog in the machine. DO I wait for my opponent's opening adn if so, for how long? Is there an optimum time to make a move?

Too many questions Jenna, too many questions. If I'm not making myself very clear I apologise. You are an angel for replying. Your advice is great Kacey and is helping to crystallise a strategy for me.

Thank you very very much

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Jenna]

To not so mean green meanie , tshadowchaser , kenpotex , still learning

Guys thank you so much for helping with this. I like your thinking a lot and some of those words you have taken the time to relay are really resonating true and are as though illuminated by neon in front of my eyes. I wish I could call you up and have you right here. You boys have got some major scary-tough going on and I could do with some scary-tough on MY side as I haven't got so much of my own OK, I know, I know, my insecurity is causing me to confuse typing with caring, LOL. But I know you'll forgive me for that. And I'll believe what I want of you all and paint my mental pictures anyway!

OK, well I don't want to be riding the morose train all the way to the terminal, I just want to thank you all again for your strategies - some really cut through the blubber like acid and I feel -and I'm sure it's obvious- I have far too much blubber in my head already Acid clarity is good for me. I am indebted to you all. :asian:

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[frank raud]

Hi there mister Elder999
999?? Did you know, for emergency services in the UK we don't dial 911 but rather 999. I am indeed hoping this is not an emergency but the imagining of an addled mind perhaps. I'm inclined to listen to what you say having read some of your erudite posts as a visitor to this site previously.

The voices in the head? Well, yes, they're definitely saying run, or at least walk away quickly. The legs however are asking where to exactly miss-oh-so-smart?

The pre-empt advice frightens me a little. Not because of any legalities. But because I am the person who carries a wrench or screwdriver for servicing discs and calipers. I do not feel capable of carrying tools like these for any other purpose.

It's a little hard to explain but if I pre-empt and get it wrong I make things go very bad indeed. If I wait and react I risk not being sufficiently quick, or missing the target.

Is there a working compromise that you can think of? Thank you.

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

In a previous post, you had mentioned being boxed in, unable to retreat, up against a wall, etc. The intentions of someone who would set you up in that position should be obvious, so I don't see much problem in attacking. Actually, at that point, I wouldn't consider it pre-emptive, because whatever is going to happen, IS already happening, and your(my) awareness and self preservation has failed to kick in on time.

Making an assumption here, but I will assume the imminent attack is not an associate of yours? Either way, you have the right of self preservation, and may have to become physically assertive(doesn't that sound better than beating the tar out of someone?).

PS If you don't pre-empt and things go wrong, are you in a position to quickly re-gain the upper hand in a physical confrontation? Not in your described scenario.

 

[Jenna]

In a previous post, you had mentioned being boxed in, unable to retreat, up against a wall, etc. The intentions of someone who would set you up in that position should be obvious, so I don't see much problem in attacking. Actually, at that point, I wouldn't consider it pre-emptive, because whatever is going to happen, IS already happening, and your(my) awareness and self preservation has failed to kick in on time.

Making an assumption here, but I will assume the imminent attack is not an associate of yours? Either way, you have the right of self preservation, and may have to become physically assertive(doesn't that sound better than beating the tar out of someone?).

PS If you don't pre-empt and things go wrong, are you in a position to quickly re-gain the upper hand in a physical confrontation? Not in your described scenario.

Hi there frank raud

Thanks for chipping in some more good points. When I say boxed in, I mean it in the wider sense. I mean that I have actively taken myself out of the game by way of avoidance but am still concerned that the game is seeking me out. I have avoided by retreat I think almost as far as I can go. At this stage, there's a sense of metaphorical claustrophobia though nothing physical thusfar. However as I said earlier, I think the timing idea -react or pre-empt- applies equally whether the threat is physical or mental. And I'm sorry to be obtuse.

I take your point though that you wouldn't consider an application at that stage as pre-emptive but that it's rather a reaction to a certainty.

Can I ask you then is there an argument that to pre-empt would be wrong if you're not confident in your ability to bring the confrontation to a finish? Might it be better to wait for the attack and risk a counter rather than go on the offensive and risk an escalation that might lead to even more serious trouble? I hope I am getting this across sufficiently clearly

Thank you again!
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[frank raud]

Basic physics. Reaction is slower than action. If you are not sure you can finish an encounter by pre-empting, how can you gain anything by waiting?

It is obvious this is coming from a female, every time an answer is given, the parameters change a little.

Eeven if not boxed in, physically or metaphorically, you have retreated as far as you believe you are able,puts you in the same position, no?

Is your concern in this situation the ethics of being pre-emptive/ Or the presumption it is not ladylike? (I will probably get flamed for that last comment).

 

[frank raud]

May or may not be relevant to this discussion, but a well known RBSD instructor suggests that when a situation arises, that verbal commands be given(assuming time allows). First command, firmly stated, "Back up!" if someone is getting to close without reason or permission. It next escalates to the use of swearing, not to insult the potential BG, but to get his attention, as it is something they will respond to" Back the **** up", not "Back up, ************", third time louder, same as second. At this point, even if you have not been physically attacked, you can prove you tried to avoid the situation, and were defending yourself. 100% guaranteed in a court of law? nope, but the values of self preservation and the laws of self defense don't always align.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hello all my lovely peeps!

It was horribly rainy this evening in Bruges. The sky descended to little above head height. I've never been in weather like that before. I said to someone that everything looked all sort of Matrix green - "Vert comme la Matrice" ... "Grün wie die Matrix??" ... “Es gibt keinen löffel????” but they just looked at me like I needed a hug. And I probably do. It’s like this, I'm debating what to do with myself. Run off and hide in a corner til the stars are in proper alignment or come out right now with bootblack on my cheekbones and phasers set to kill?

Ok, enoughpiffle - a simple question: usingyour MA in a real, off-mats or outside confrontation, at what point in your opponents initial move do you make your opening? How long do you wait before you unleash your counter technique?

In my unimpressive life, I'm sensing impending trouble right now. Do I pre-empt the IMAGINED threat or do I react to the ACTUAL event? There’s an answer in the defensive timing analogy I’m certain. But after reading all this, I excuse you for wondering what I'm taking. Or maybe wondering if I've forgotten today's dose Maybe I need to go to the kiddie zoo tomorrow andstroke some llamas, ha!

All my clever and learned friends, your sage advice will make someone happy

Yr mst obdt hmble srvt
Jenna

Jenna,

First off it sounds like there is more going on then a defensive or pre-emptive question can answer. As I am not looking to get into your personal life I will wish you the best, and hope this can help you out in pondering your options.


In many martial arts, there is a teaching of self-defense or non aggression. That the art is not supposed to be used unless one is defending themselves.

This is good for most people and also helps to build better moral character.

Yet when on the street, and you are in it and unavoidable then sometimes a posturing attempt or pre-emptive strike is in order.

But is this not against the inner peace to be taught of the art one studies?

Yes and No.

You are in a spot you have one guy in front of you with another just off to his side. The one in front is tall and is taller then you while the second guy is much shorter then you. So while the first guy is posturing and getting in your face the second guy is there to make the sucker punch. (* Yes I have lived this before *) Well as I was telling the taller guy to go for it, in essence calling his bluff and posturing with my own posturing, the second guy balls up his fist. (* One must be aware of your surroundings. Do not tunnel vision in on the immediate problem for other problems will sneak up on you and make it worse. *) I reach out and slapped the punk acros the face. Yes I reached out and slapped the punk across the face. This brought my hands up into a more defensive position and a more aggresive posture if you will. The smaller punk yelled, "You hit me!, I am only 17, see this guy hit me and I am a minor." Before I could speak another man in the crowd spoke out and said, "I saw a man ***** slap a boy for trying to attack him."

The crowd was on my side now as I had not devastated anyone but shown I was willing to make contact, and was not backing down.

They postured some more and yelled but they had stepped back away from me and were heading towards their vehicle.

After they left a young man asked me why I let them leave after calling me all those names. I replied, "They are gone, I am still working here. I am not hurt. There are no police involved. and their name calling did me no harm."

So the pre-emptive strike even though was not a strike to take them out permanently it was still a pre-emptive strike for contact had not been made.

Yet I argue that the moment they declared their hostile intentions toward me, they had lost concern for issues such as is it right to pre-emptive strike or not.

I made a lot of decisions like this. I had to decide instantly if such a move would end it now or if it would make it worse.

In another case, one guy hit himself in the chest while yelling, "Are you Talking to me?". He then hit himself in the head. This is to bring is adrenaline up and get edorphines running so he will nto feel my counter shot if I get one after he attacks me. Well after his second attack on himself, I popped him in the nose and front kicked to the groin. I replied. "Yes I am talking to you. Next?" (* Yes a little arrogance and also posturing to his friends to let them know I was waiting for them to move. *) Once again contact made to him before it was made to me. But I knew the fight was one, it was a matter of time and his choosing, so I decided to make it a manner of my time and choosing.

The problem with this is that one has to be willing to follow through with the posture or the minor pre-emptive strike with all out strike warfare. If anyone is not ready for that then it is something I believe should be avoided.

Now all my stories are not this lucky or this one sided either.

There once was this group of ten guys who were bother and one might say assualting a female employee of mine. I aksed them to leave and ave them room to walk out. They stopped on the way out, and went after another employee. I stepped up and told them to leave again. (* They had all lost sight of me. Fools *) So we get out side and this guy starts running his mouth, and makes the comment that, "Ill be back!" to which I replied "Dude, you got ten guys and just me, if you cannot take me now, do not come back when I wil ahv friends and back up here." He had his hand in his pocket and was about 6 feet away with one of his friends almost in between us. The barrel of the gun became real evident in his baggy pants as he pointed it at me through his pants and was pulling back to clear his pocket. I could not reach it to keep it in check it was already pointed at me. I grabbed his friend and did a body, neck lock to use him as a body shield. His friend is screaming I was going to break his neck. Not that possible where I was at, but he did not know. So he said, "put the gun down."

Not fun staring down the barrel of an auto pistle.

I yell for the guy a the door to close the door and be inside and lock it. Also to call the cops and ambulance. (* I expected I would have needed one, but was still trying to limit the colatterial damage done to others nearby. I was the fool now. *)

After what seemed liked forever (* have someone mad at you point a load gun to your face area even if you are hiding behind one of his friends, each second is way too long. *), but was most likely a minute at best, the guy with teh guy put it back into his pocket pulled his hand out and they all went to their vehicles. I let the guy go once there were large obsticales between me and the guy with the gun. The guy I was holding had jeans on that were tight and a tight shirt, and I had been real close to him so I knew he did nto have one on him. They get to their cars and then roll to leave, but stopp just before leaving and ask me if I want to go now? I tell I am going to kill you! as I charge the truck he is in, with three guys in the front and he is straight in front of me. I moved to his back side swinging a set of keys to hit his hand if it came out the window while tryng to just the "B" pillar of the cab as cover and also prohibit his movement. The drive of the truck was more concerned with the paint job of his truck then seing me get hurt, so he took off out of the parking lot and through the ditch.

I got lucky and survived. That guy had a bigger posture then I had on me. Not sure if he was willing to bring it , but it is too easy to make a mistake with a 7- 15 lb trigger pull.

I have other stories where I survived, but got beat on, although I brought it to them at that point. Even with 5 or 6 of them I would take it to them with all I had.

So, it gets better with experience, but you need the experience and mistakes to get better. Not recommended for survival, yet if the situation is much different they dealing with gang members or street thugs, then one can read reactiosn accordingly, and take a guess there.

So yes I believe in the pre-emptive strike for this reason and also from my experience I got hurt less in the long run even with those big scares and when things went bad. But I knew that possibility when I stepped into it.


I am not sure if any of this helps. Good Luck



Just remember: "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." Rush - Freewill

 

[tshadowchaser]

Yesterday as I was leaving my room key at the reception I was handed a letter - addressed to me as a visitor at the hotel and posted near here in Antwerp. It was empty

That statement and the act that you are getting strang text messages tells me that someone may be stalking you. I don't know exactly what to tell you to do about it excpt change you phone number and be awear o who is around you all of the time. when you go out notice the people in the lobby and as you walk down the street look in a store window the carefuly look around to see if you see any of the same faces.
i hope you did not distroy the envolope that was handed to you, pu tit ina plastic container and if you get another you may need to go to the local police and ask what the stalking laws are in that area ( if any). You may need to have a record of the text messages as well just so the police know that you may be in danger. someone out there knows who and where you are.
Be careful this may be a prank but it could be somethin bigger
You may want to discuss this in the LLR also not just in this open area

 

[MJS]

Hello all my lovely peeps!

It was horribly rainy this evening in Bruges. The sky descended to little above head height. I've never been in weather like that before. I said to someone that everything looked all sort of Matrix green - "Vert comme la Matrice" ... "Grün wie die Matrix??" ... “Es gibt keinen löffel????” but they just looked at me like I needed a hug. And I probably do. It’s like this, I'm debating what to do with myself. Run off and hide in a corner til the stars are in proper alignment or come out right now with bootblack on my cheekbones and phasers set to kill?

Ok, enoughpiffle - a simple question: usingyour MA in a real, off-mats or outside confrontation, at what point in your opponents initial move do you make your opening? How long do you wait before you unleash your counter technique?

In my unimpressive life, I'm sensing impending trouble right now. Do I pre-empt the IMAGINED threat or do I react to the ACTUAL event? There’s an answer in the defensive timing analogy I’m certain. But after reading all this, I excuse you for wondering what I'm taking. Or maybe wondering if I've forgotten today's dose Maybe I need to go to the kiddie zoo tomorrow andstroke some llamas, ha!

All my clever and learned friends, your sage advice will make someone happy

Yr mst obdt hmble srvt
Jenna

Here are a few things that you may find interesting:

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/rbma/use_of_force.html

http://sfuk.tripod.com/articles/3secfight.html

One thing to keep in mind is to be aware of what is happening. Keeping your hands up in a non-threatening manner, while still providing yourself with the ability to launch a strike or block certainly does not make you the aggressor. If the person facing you begins to make movements towards you, and you're finding that words are no longer working, in an attempt to defuse the situation, he is the aggressor, not you. Watching his body language is important here. If the person is going to punch you, your defense needs to begin as he's drawing back, not when the punch is already half way towards your face.

Mike

 

[Jenna]

Jenna,

First off it sounds like there is more going on then a defensive or pre-emptive question can answer. As I am not looking to get into your personal life I will wish you the best, and hope this can help you out in pondering your options.


In many martial arts, there is a teaching of self-defense or non aggression. That the art is not supposed to be used unless one is defending themselves.

This is good for most people and also helps to build better moral character.

Yet when on the street, and you are in it and unavoidable then sometimes a posturing attempt or pre-emptive strike is in order.

But is this not against the inner peace to be taught of the art one studies?

Yes and No.

You are in a spot you have one guy in front of you with another just off to his side. The one in front is tall and is taller then you while the second guy is much shorter then you. So while the first guy is posturing and getting in your face the second guy is there to make the sucker punch. (* Yes I have lived this before *) Well as I was telling the taller guy to go for it, in essence calling his bluff and posturing with my own posturing, the second guy balls up his fist. (* One must be aware of your surroundings. Do not tunnel vision in on the immediate problem for other problems will sneak up on you and make it worse. *) I reach out and slapped the punk acros the face. Yes I reached out and slapped the punk across the face. This brought my hands up into a more defensive position and a more aggresive posture if you will. The smaller punk yelled, "You hit me!, I am only 17, see this guy hit me and I am a minor." Before I could speak another man in the crowd spoke out and said, "I saw a man ***** slap a boy for trying to attack him."

The crowd was on my side now as I had not devastated anyone but shown I was willing to make contact, and was not backing down.

They postured some more and yelled but they had stepped back away from me and were heading towards their vehicle.

After they left a young man asked me why I let them leave after calling me all those names. I replied, "They are gone, I am still working here. I am not hurt. There are no police involved. and their name calling did me no harm."

So the pre-emptive strike even though was not a strike to take them out permanently it was still a pre-emptive strike for contact had not been made.

Yet I argue that the moment they declared their hostile intentions toward me, they had lost concern for issues such as is it right to pre-emptive strike or not.

I made a lot of decisions like this. I had to decide instantly if such a move would end it now or if it would make it worse.

In another case, one guy hit himself in the chest while yelling, "Are you Talking to me?". He then hit himself in the head. This is to bring is adrenaline up and get edorphines running so he will nto feel my counter shot if I get one after he attacks me. Well after his second attack on himself, I popped him in the nose and front kicked to the groin. I replied. "Yes I am talking to you. Next?" (* Yes a little arrogance and also posturing to his friends to let them know I was waiting for them to move. *) Once again contact made to him before it was made to me. But I knew the fight was one, it was a matter of time and his choosing, so I decided to make it a manner of my time and choosing.

The problem with this is that one has to be willing to follow through with the posture or the minor pre-emptive strike with all out strike warfare. If anyone is not ready for that then it is something I believe should be avoided.

Now all my stories are not this lucky or this one sided either.

There once was this group of ten guys who were bother and one might say assualting a female employee of mine. I aksed them to leave and ave them room to walk out. They stopped on the way out, and went after another employee. I stepped up and told them to leave again. (* They had all lost sight of me. Fools *) So we get out side and this guy starts running his mouth, and makes the comment that, "Ill be back!" to which I replied "Dude, you got ten guys and just me, if you cannot take me now, do not come back when I wil ahv friends and back up here." He had his hand in his pocket and was about 6 feet away with one of his friends almost in between us. The barrel of the gun became real evident in his baggy pants as he pointed it at me through his pants and was pulling back to clear his pocket. I could not reach it to keep it in check it was already pointed at me. I grabbed his friend and did a body, neck lock to use him as a body shield. His friend is screaming I was going to break his neck. Not that possible where I was at, but he did not know. So he said, "put the gun down."

Not fun staring down the barrel of an auto pistle.

I yell for the guy a the door to close the door and be inside and lock it. Also to call the cops and ambulance. (* I expected I would have needed one, but was still trying to limit the colatterial damage done to others nearby. I was the fool now. *)

After what seemed liked forever (* have someone mad at you point a load gun to your face area even if you are hiding behind one of his friends, each second is way too long. *), but was most likely a minute at best, the guy with teh guy put it back into his pocket pulled his hand out and they all went to their vehicles. I let the guy go once there were large obsticales between me and the guy with the gun. The guy I was holding had jeans on that were tight and a tight shirt, and I had been real close to him so I knew he did nto have one on him. They get to their cars and then roll to leave, but stopp just before leaving and ask me if I want to go now? I tell I am going to kill you! as I charge the truck he is in, with three guys in the front and he is straight in front of me. I moved to his back side swinging a set of keys to hit his hand if it came out the window while tryng to just the "B" pillar of the cab as cover and also prohibit his movement. The drive of the truck was more concerned with the paint job of his truck then seing me get hurt, so he took off out of the parking lot and through the ditch.

I got lucky and survived. That guy had a bigger posture then I had on me. Not sure if he was willing to bring it , but it is too easy to make a mistake with a 7- 15 lb trigger pull.

I have other stories where I survived, but got beat on, although I brought it to them at that point. Even with 5 or 6 of them I would take it to them with all I had.

So, it gets better with experience, but you need the experience and mistakes to get better. Not recommended for survival, yet if the situation is much different they dealing with gang members or street thugs, then one can read reactiosn accordingly, and take a guess there.

So yes I believe in the pre-emptive strike for this reason and also from my experience I got hurt less in the long run even with those big scares and when things went bad. But I knew that possibility when I stepped into it.


I am not sure if any of this helps. Good Luck



Just remember: "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." Rush - Freewill

Hello Rich,
You know, this is fantastic to read, if only to make me wish I had your fighting confidence and your brass neck. Your pre-empts are exceptional. Believe me Rich, if I could work it like you I'd not be asking. You look like a strong guy Rich in your photograph and yes I checked out Balintawak and I know what you guys can do but to hear that even a guy like you that has all those techniques imprinted through your muscles can miss a gear and end up at the open end of a gun doesn't give me confidence in myself as someone who is neither a natural born killer nor big and mean enough to front like I was.

I'm thinking as I read what you said. Imagine that firearm scrape you escaped from, imagine that's not you being attacked, imagine that's someone else - one of your female employees instead as you said, imagine you can be the little coaching voice in their head. What will you say Rich? What is your advice?

I am listening to what you are saying Rich, I really am. Your insight is particularly important to me as it is not of parables but of real life events. I hope you are reading. I have made my move. I have taken the cowards way, I am on the train south and yes I have the chess analogy in my head that just because the queen moves, the game is still afoot right up until the king is taken.

Thank you,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Jenna]

That statement and the act that you are getting strang text messages tells me that someone may be stalking you. I don't know exactly what to tell you to do about it excpt change you phone number and be awear o who is around you all of the time. when you go out notice the people in the lobby and as you walk down the street look in a store window the carefuly look around to see if you see any of the same faces.
i hope you did not distroy the envolope that was handed to you, pu tit ina plastic container and if you get another you may need to go to the local police and ask what the stalking laws are in that area ( if any). You may need to have a record of the text messages as well just so the police know that you may be in danger. someone out there knows who and where you are.
Be careful this may be a prank but it could be somethin bigger
You may want to discuss this in the LLR also not just in this open area

Hey there tshadowchaser Thank you for your concern, it is sincerely appreciated. I spoke with the local police this morning but they just sort of shrugged in that apathetic way they do here, "what would you have us do about that?" was the reassurance from the duty officer. I truly have no answer to that. It was somewhat condescendingly though politely suggested that I "retourner a votre pays de résidence" ie. go home. This isn't such a good option for me. I left the envelope with them but I get the impression it will have subsequently gone in the bin.

Thank you for your advice. I am heeding it all.
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hello Rich,
You know, this is fantastic to read, if only to make me wish I had your fighting confidence and your brass neck. Your pre-empts are exceptional. Believe me Rich, if I could work it like you I'd not be asking. You look like a strong guy Rich in your photograph and yes I checked out Balintawak and I know what you guys can do but to hear that even a guy like you that has all those techniques imprinted through your muscles can miss a gear and end up at the open end of a gun doesn't give me confidence in myself as someone who is neither a natural born killer nor big and mean enough to front like I was.

I'm thinking as I read what you said. Imagine that firearm scrape you escaped from, imagine that's not you being attacked, imagine that's someone else - one of your female employees instead as you said, imagine you can be the little coaching voice in their head. What will you say Rich? What is your advice?

I am listening to what you are saying Rich, I really am. Your insight is particularly important to me as it is not of parables but of real life events. I hope you are reading. I have made my move. I have taken the cowards way, I am on the train south and yes I have the chess analogy in my head that just because the queen moves, the game is still afoot right up until the king is taken.

Thank you,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Cowardice is not the words I would use or the way I would describe Intelligence to avoid conflict.

What would one of the women done? Not sure. What Advice? Do not be there. If there then do not go with them, but get away. Use what you have, to get away, and to survive. To survive is not cowardice.

I will give more thought on this.

My posts were not to try to make you feel bad, or to brag. It was to allow you and others some insights into what worked and what sometimes did not.

 

[green meanie]

Cowardice is not the words I would use or the way I would describe Intelligence to avoid conflict.

Agreed!!! :asian:

 

[Kacey]

Jenna -

If you have contacted the police and they have blown you off (and it certainly sounds like they have), you have at least reached a point where you have made the police aware of a potential problem. I would also suggest that you contact your cell phone service provider about the anonymous text messages. It's possible that they can either trace past messages, or put some kind of trace on your phone to trace similar messages in the future; I know it's possible for land lines (I've had to have it done), and I imagine it would be possible for cell phones as well. Talk to the front desk of the hotel about the anonymous message, and ask them to take careful note of anyone who leaves anything for you (if this person had sent text messages and snail mail, there's a possibility that a personal delivery could be next). The more people (and especially those in your immediate vicinity, like the hotel staff) that you contact about this problem, the more likely it is that someone will notice if someone is hanging around looking for you, or if something unusual happens. Even if they think your concerns are groundless, it will make them more aware if something unusual does happen.

Good luck and safety to you.

 

[Jenna]

Cowardice is not the words I would use or the way I would describe Intelligence to avoid conflict.

What would one of the women done? Not sure. What Advice? Do not be there. If there then do not go with them, but get away. Use what you have, to get away, and to survive. To survive is not cowardice.

I will give more thought on this.

My posts were not to try to make you feel bad, or to brag. It was to allow you and others some insights into what worked and what sometimes did not.

Hey there big Rich
Man, your posts don't make me feel bad, no sir. They reverberate with truth and clarity. It is me that's at fault because I am envious of those who can do what I can never hope to. I'm always willing to learn though which is why I am maybe getting stuck in a loop of asking questions.

Thank you again for your advice and help. Believe me, it is appreciated
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Jenna]

Jenna -

If you have contacted the police and they have blown you off (and it certainly sounds like they have), you have at least reached a point where you have made the police aware of a potential problem. I would also suggest that you contact your cell phone service provider about the anonymous text messages. It's possible that they can either trace past messages, or put some kind of trace on your phone to trace similar messages in the future; I know it's possible for land lines (I've had to have it done), and I imagine it would be possible for cell phones as well. Talk to the front desk of the hotel about the anonymous message, and ask them to take careful note of anyone who leaves anything for you (if this person had sent text messages and snail mail, there's a possibility that a personal delivery could be next). The more people (and especially those in your immediate vicinity, like the hotel staff) that you contact about this problem, the more likely it is that someone will notice if someone is hanging around looking for you, or if something unusual happens. Even if they think your concerns are groundless, it will make them more aware if something unusual does happen.

Good luck and safety to you.

Thank you Kacey, my angel
I have heeded your advice. The mobile (cellphone) went in the bin. I got another one here cheap so I'm free of those shackles. I have made my closest friends aware at home. But I hate to have people worried unnecessarily. I mean, all my Aikido friends and old workmates are family guys and nobody needs this stuff. Anyway. I'll not go on. I fear this thread has gone badly awry because of me and has become nothing more than a wholly self-centred discussion. I apologise for that. I think I am overtaken by curcumstances and hope that you all understand. But thank you again Kacey for your valuable practical advice, this is an immeasurably helpful thing to have in my not so scary-tough arsenal.

Yr most hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[tshadowchaser]

Jenna,
This thread has not gone awry but has taken a change of dirrection and become one that many are reading and trying to help in. We are not fighters, and grapplers here, we are people who truely care about our fellow members and wish the best to those who may be haveing problems.
Never be afraid to ask for advice or to ask questions of us.

 

[Jenna]

Jenna,
This thread has not gone awry but has taken a change of dirrection and become one that many are reading and trying to help in. We are not fighters, and grapplers here, we are people who truely care about our fellow members and wish the best to those who may be haveing problems.
Never be afraid to ask for advice or to ask questions of us.

You can have no idea what that means to hear, my friend :asian:

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[green meanie]

Jenna,
We are not fighters, and grapplers here, we are people who truely care about our fellow members and wish the best to those who may be haveing problems.

And of course, those of us who are fighters and grapplers, also truly care about our fellow members and wish them the best as well.