Rate My form, Again (updated version)

[JowGaWolf]

While this is true in my experience, every thing about this post offends me.

WTH would you want to learn a "weapons" kata which ONLY application is to look flashy but which not only has NO application to actual weapon use but actually hampers the use of the real weapon by training bad habits and unworkable techniques with toy weapons? Every thing about that concept is, literally, mind bogglingly senseless to me. It's the Martial Arts equivalent of an Escher painting.

But, yes, I admit you're right; if the point of the kata is for an "Extreme Martial Arts" style competition, then much of the advice already given should be ignored. The follow on advice would be to find a gymnastics instructor because there weren't any 360 flips or helicopter kicks.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

And that's why I don't like extreme martial arts

 

[Runs With Fire]

First of, you guys didn't scare me away. I don't have internet at home and I haven't been to McDonald's in a while. Now, to answer dozens of questions at once:

I understand that I asked for criticism, I don't mind being wrong if it means I can see that I need to change something.

I have had no training with axes.

I am familiar with BSA policies and own and have read most if not all of Dan Beard's books on camp craft.

With the single and double bit ax I have felled split and stacked hundreds of full cords. In my neighborhood, we heat with wood. In a reenactment group, I have become familiar with the french tomohawk and various colonial american varieties for splitting, chopping, felling trees and throwing.

I was still trying to resemble a shadow of bits of Nahanchi and the Bassai hyung as I have learned them. It absolutely compromised the form, I understand that.

The tournament was an open tournament with a single category for all weapons. I don't believe in extreme forms , it belongs on a dance floor. Baton twirling is best suited in front of a marching band.


My axes aren't incredibly heavy ones. Nor are they flimsy. I have beat the tar out of those things. They are old throwing axes Cold Steel used to sell

*Disclaimer
I do hereby understand that by stepping into personally unknown territory and looking like a fool to the public, though a proud and dignified fool, I shall have my head chewed off by amateur and professionally trained individuals who become emotionally wrought and moderately disgusted in my lack of knowledge of my actions.*

It's all fine,

 

[Runs With Fire]

Of course I should have used a weapon from my curriculum, as an example I have done staff forms nearly four years. Personally, I don't tend to do that well at forms (the pattern memorization doesn't go well with my delayed recall memory) and am trying to put in additional time and effort from a different perspective to help my overall ability. Sometimes I wish I would have stayed with cage/brother/street fighting. Oddly enough, I found that easier.

All that said, I have improved. I do improve. I shall continue to improve. (Maybe without axes.)

 

[JowGaWolf]

Trust me. It's not you. My personal belief is that you should have had more guidance from those who teach in your school. Understanding how different weapons work is good and can help in real life. For example someone wants to attack you with a bat. What do you understand about the difficulty of swinging a bat? How is the weight distributed? How is the person holding the weapon? Is he holding it like he knows how to use it? All of this stuff along with other things matters beyond what most people think

 

[clfsean]

Trust me. It's not you. My personal belief is that you should have had more guidance from those who teach in your school. Understanding how different weapons work is good and can help in real life. For example someone wants to attack you with a bat. What do you understand about the difficulty of swinging a bat? How is the weight distributed? How is the person holding the weapon? Is he holding it like he knows how to use it? All of this stuff along with other things matters beyond what most people think

True but none of that applies when the school doesn't have a training background with a particular weapon, in this case a hand axe & double axes at that.

 

[lklawson]

ersonally, I don't tend to do that well at forms (the pattern memorization doesn't go well with my delayed recall memory) and am trying to put in additional time and effort from a different perspective to help my overall ability.

It just takes the reps. Lots and lots of reps. Over and over again. The hard part is not letting it get "mind numbing." You have to keep your focus.

All that said, I have improved. I do improve. I shall continue to improve. (Maybe without axes.)

Maybe. I like watching staff kata better anyway. Does your kobudo instructor teach hanbo? Lots of "real world" practical application there.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[clfsean]

First of, you guys didn't scare me away. I don't have internet at home and I haven't been to McDonald's in a while. Now, to answer dozens of questions at once:

I understand that I asked for criticism, I don't mind being wrong if it means I can see that I need to change something.

I have had no training with axes.

I am familiar with BSA policies and own and have read most if not all of Dan Beard's books on camp craft.

With the single and double bit ax I have felled split and stacked hundreds of full cords. In my neighborhood, we heat with wood. In a reenactment group, I have become familiar with the french tomohawk and various colonial american varieties for splitting, chopping, felling trees and throwing.

I was still trying to resemble a shadow of bits of Nahanchi and the Bassai hyung as I have learned them. It absolutely compromised the form, I understand that.

The tournament was an open tournament with a single category for all weapons. I don't believe in extreme forms , it belongs on a dance floor. Baton twirling is best suited in front of a marching band.


My axes aren't incredibly heavy ones. Nor are they flimsy. I have beat the tar out of those things. They are old throwing axes Cold Steel used to sell

*Disclaimer
I do hereby understand that by stepping into personally unknown territory and looking like a fool to the public, though a proud and dignified fool, I shall have my head chewed off by amateur and professionally trained individuals who become emotionally wrought and moderately disgusted in my lack of knowledge of my actions.*

It's all fine,

If you're aiming for maintaining bits of Naihanchi & Bassai, the hand axes aren't the choice. Those forms are linear in nature & technique & truly so are the styles they derived from.

Axes really only work in circles & arcs, fully committed & intent on chopping/slicing/hack on the X & Y axises & from any position. Within those motions are your deflections/parries/passes/bridging for defense, but truth be told from a CMA perspective, there are none of that. They're just attacks that did something different, not a separate technique. Kirk can speak more about the HEMA based uses.

Like I mentioned before, you get points for stepping up & being seen & asking (very so important) for input knowing it was going to be critical. We're not hammering on you for the sake of mud-holing somebody. These are things those above you should've brought up & counseled you on. Truly, tonfa would've worked MUCH better in your arena.

 

[lklawson]

Kirk can speak more about the HEMA based uses.

To a certain degree, a hand-ax is a hand-ax regardless of if it was used to chop up people in China or in Ireland. The basics of weapon theory and use are going to have a lot of similarities.

Like I mentioned before, you get points for stepping up & being seen & asking (very so important) for input knowing it was going to be critical. We're not hammering on you for the sake of mud-holing somebody. These are things those above you should've brought up & counseled you on. Truly, tonfa would've worked MUCH better in your arena.

Just speculating here, but maybe palm-sticks in the 6-8" length would have been better choices. That strikes me as, at once, being both very practical and also far easier to fit into the movement theory of the base art and the kinesiology of the base kata. You could even "spice" it up just a little bit by using modern "Tactical Flashlights ($8.30 + free shipping)." Maybe one turned on to solid beam and the other set to strobe.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Montana]

Just a quick story about a similar situation in a tournament I judged. There was a 3rd dan BB in TKD in the weapons competiton. When it came to his turn, he first took a katana, sai, nunchauku, bo, and several other weapons and spread them out in a half circle behind him, then he presented himself to the judges and stated that he was going to demonstrate his "expertise" with these weapons.

To say he was bad would be a gross understatement...he was HORRIBLE! He hadn't a clue how to hold, manipulate and use any of the weapons.

There were 5 judges total, and I was the center/presiding judge. All of the other judges game him a score in the upper 8's (perfect is a 10), where I scored him a 7 (lowest score we give black belts..show some respect! lol) BTW, I was the ONLY judge on the panel of 5 that taught and used kobudo as a part of their art.

After the competition was over he came up to me, very respectfully, and asked me why I gave him such a low score. I said "Take me to your weapons" and proceeded to one-by-one show him how to hold each weapopn, and how to manipulate them. His eyes opened wide when the lights came on in his head. I asked him where he learned his techniques, and he told me from his 6th Dan TKD sensei. I asked if his sensei was present at the tournament, he stated "No"...

BUMMER! I wanted to meet this idiot...