Rapper: Blacks 'cheered when 9-11 happened'

[DavidCC]

as far as me repeating statement over and again, and avoiding other points:

are there other points i should take into consideration...?

You say he was trying to sell records - who was he pandering too, and why do they agree with him? How many Americans agree with him, and why, and what can be done about that? Those might be important quesitons to think about. It's easy to post about how bad hip-hop is and how terrible kids can be but we already are all pretty much aware of all that so isn't that just :deadhorse: ?? Do you believe that it's just gang-banging degenerates who think along the lines of what KRS said? or might the problem be more wide-spread than that?

i dont give a rat's *** why he made the statement

hypocrite or brain damage, you decide... your first couple posts in this thread were about nothing BUT why he did it : to sell records, to make money... but to who?????????



I said

KRS-One is out of line.

so where am I defending him?

 

[Sapper6]

hey david, get over it. i got out of this conversation a long time ago. so who's beating the dead horse here...?

if you're just looking for someone to argue with, look elsewhere :ultracool . i spoke my mind and made my point already :supcool:

 

[Bammx2]

raise your hand if you have gotten a neg rep point since this started!

just curious......

 

[DavidCC]

hey david, get over it. i got out of this conversation a long time ago. so who's beating the dead horse here...?

if you're just looking for someone to argue with, look elsewhere :ultracool . i spoke my mind and made my point already :supcool:

a long time ago? friday night? I'm not looking for someone to argue with, but you made some negative remarks directed at me ... instead of replying to the points I tried to make

I know you spoke your mind and made your point (a couple times)... OK then I responded to your point with one of my own.. it's called "discussion", try it, it can be fun. don't just snipe and run.

I'm more concerend about how many Americans believe what KRS-One said and why they do so. Got anything to say about that? (anyone?) Why do so many Americans think that the US is to blame for 9-11??? rap music? video games? I don't think so.

 

[Brother John]

Hi John,

I think you need to get out and see the light of day.
Smell the flowers, see the other neighborhoods. Visit other countries get to know the other people in their own settings.

I was going to say in my other post, regarding working with habitual criminals and liars, that at least when you work the streets, you get to see more then one side of the story...I am saying, see, not hear.

I believe your passion against the parents, gives me a clue to your innerfeelings.

Much more to the big picture, then what you are seeing, IMO.

I agree with some of your thoughts or statements, and I will say I disagree also.

Thanks for the insight.

Regards, Gary

I need to get out and see the light of day??
What I don't see is your point.
Are you saying that I can't view this situation beyond the walls I work within?
If so, you are wrong. I've "worked the field" as a casemanager for a while and I've done thousands of hours of family counseling and intervention/mediation in their homes. I'm not talking about your run of the mill, average American youth...I'm talking about the ones that have gone down the wrong path. Those are the ones I specialize in.
YOU have the "bigger picture" by being a police officer? I don't doubt that in some ways you do, but a police officer doesn't spend NEARLY the time dealing with these youth day in and day out in ten years as I do in one. No way. An officer arrives on the scene and must make heads & tales out of a usually emotionally charged and confusing situation thatand decide what to do next....and move on to the next call.
Instead of just telling me I'm wrong Gary, maybe you could tell me how I'm wrong, what I said that was wrong or why you feel it is wrong.
IF not, we won't ever understand one another.

Your Brother
John
PS:

I believe your passion against the parents, gives me a clue to your innerfeelings.

Please let me know what you think these clues are.
Hope you don't intend to get Freudian on me here.
I have GREAT parents and love them to no end. I've just watched many a parent RUIN thier childrens lives and hearts.

 

[Flatlander]

OK, I'll bite.

First, let me say that I do not think the citizens of the US are in any way to blame, nor do I believe that anyone else thinks that either.

Secondly, I do not believe the finger can ultimately be pointed at any 1 cause or person or group responsible, save OBL. He planned, funded, enabled, and desired the attack.

Having said that, I believe that some may feel that the Administration of the US, both current and previous incarnations, bear some responsibility. Maybe not throughdirect actions, certainly not intentionally, but the question must be asked - what is motivating these people to hate so deeply?

Essentially, the truth is there are numerous citizens throughout the US that disagree with many of the recent foreign policy decisions, to the extent of becoming angry and distrustful of their Administration. Given that, I think that its entirely reasonable to imagine that the people who actually live the reality of suffering the consequences of those policy decisions (Iraqi citizen, Afghani peasant, etc.) may experience negative feelings toward that Administration exponentially. It's not surprising.

It's easy to sit back and look at the big picture when the closest you get to the problem is the newspaper.

So the question you posed was:

Why do so many Americans think that the US is to blame for 9-11?

And I would say, because they recognise that the historical US foreign policy choices have created a cause effect that sowed the seeds for this type of extremism. They have made themselves a target.

What is the problem with this line of reasoning? It does NOT take into account what the other available choices were at the time, what other routes could have been explored, wherther or not there were better options. Similarily, blaming the current Administration for the way cards they recieved when they sat down at the table is ludicrous and unfair. They work with what they are given.

So is it fair to blame the US? You decide. Is it fair to point the finger at anyone in particular? No! It's a far more complex situation than that.

Does it resolve anything? Does finger pointing ever? No! KRS is selling records. If he were cutting the suffering and homeless in on his profits, I would feel differently about his motives.

 

[MisterMike]

I think the same could be argued that even if we were completely innocent in our foreign policy, we still could have been attacked by these extremists just for being, well, infidels.

 

[Flatlander]

I think the same could be argued that even if we were completely innocent in our foreign policy, we still could have been attacked by these extremists just for being, well, infidels.

I disagree. Canada has not been attacked.

 

[raedyn]

(nevermind)

 

[Brother John]

The most prosperous country of 'infidels' is the USA, not Canada.
The US is seen as a center for capitalism and democracy...and it is the most prosperous...thus the greatest target.

Just something to think about.

Your Brother
John

 

[PeachMonkey]

The common assertion that the US was attacked because we're "free" and "prosperous" is a convenient fantasy, but not anything that has been backed with actual, you know, data.

It is clear, however, that our foreign polic, right or wrong, has upset many, and terrorists *have* related it directly to their acts.

 

[GAB]

Hi Brother John,

No, no, no Freudian....Light, as in sunshine, not dark, not dank, not overburdened...I think that is what was floating around at the time....

I guess you are reading into something I said, that I did not say. I said I agree and disagree with you, talked about some other reasons...

Yes, you will see the true hard core case more if that is the work you do.

If you are talking in that vein of course, you will see the person who has finally arrived at your door, messed up to the max.

I did not mean to imply that your opinion was something I want to impugn.

I replied....with innerfeelings (truth/honest)You used the name of Jesus Christ...I was at a seminar this weekend they did that also, I am not around that many Dojo's that do that.

Also probably if you were called on the witness stand you would be classified as an expert in your field.
But I think you are seeing to much of the one type, if that is where you want to place all of your blame. IMO

As I read and, have read your posts, I notice you are very passoniate in most of your replys, or post's, even when playing around with the Penguins...

Combative is another way to look at it...Thats fine, I have now seen it and understand you more...I guess I have not read enough of your posts, for I don't remember you talking about your religion on prior occasion.

Some people throw the name around a lot, others don't. I have been told by numerous persons that by being an Agnostic, it is like being Lucefer.
Some look at Lucefer as light, Morning star, others look at it as Satan or the Archangel. Or the fact that I am doing the devils work...Right...

Since you brought it up and I am trying to understand where you are coming from, do you bring up Jesus Christ when you are doing interview's and try to convert?

Have them see the right way through the way of the New Testament?

Do you have pictures and sayings by him or about him in your office???

Just trying to get a little more insight.

Regards, Gary

 

[Sapper6]

a long time ago? friday night? I'm not looking for someone to argue with, but you made some negative remarks directed at me ... instead of replying to the points I tried to make

I know you spoke your mind and made your point (a couple times)... OK then I responded to your point with one of my own.. it's called "discussion", try it, it can be fun. don't just snipe and run.

I'm more concerend about how many Americans believe what KRS-One said and why they do so. Got anything to say about that? (anyone?) Why do so many Americans think that the US is to blame for 9-11??? rap music? video games? I don't think so.

i'd say being out of the conversation for over 2 days would be a long time, yes. wouldnt you...?

i certainly didnt mean to attack you personally and if you sensed that, then accept my apologies. i did however disagree with your statements (as you did mine). it could be construed however that by me disagreeing with where you stood on this issue (attacking your stand), that i did indeed attack you personally. i only did this after you accused others and myself of being predudiced and harbouring racial biased because of the way we felt about this black guy making such a comment. call it how you see it and i will as well.

to answer you most recent questions, i do not believe the united states is to blame for the 9-11 attacks. i dont even go as far as blaming our administrations foreign policy for inducing such an attack. to say this, you would also believe that our country's policy toward Japan in the 1940's provoked the attack on Pearl Harbor, hence, being our "own fault". i dont blame anyone except for the countries/organizations behind such attacks. if you or anyone else believes the United States of America are to blame for our ownselves being attacked, then i would suggest you find somewhere else to live.

you can't blame rap, video games, parents or anything else for such misfortunes. we live in a time of war and the best thing to do is react accordingly, to go the furthest extent in seeing to it these misfortunes are not repeated. if this means waging war across the globe against all foes believed to harbor, aid, finance, or otherwise engage in such activities, then so be it. terrorism has no face, nation, race, or specific sterotype.

to everyone:

instead of criticizing our administration for waging such a global war, stop and remember what our goal is. to keep our happy asses safe and alive for so long as our creator wishes. also keep in mind when blabbering about how our current republican administration should be handling this crisis, please remember our last democratic president passed on many opportunities to catch or kill bin laden but passed on the notion because it wasnt in our interests to do so. perhaps he couldnt find the time in between morning PR runs to McDonalds or commiting unneccesary troops to the UN crisis in Somalia, or even molesting interns on the taxpayer time clock.

:asian:

 

[PeachMonkey]

to answer you most recent questions, i do not believe the united states is to blame for the 9-11 attacks. i dont even go as far as blaming our administrations foreign policy for inducing such an attack. to say this, you would also believe that our country's policy toward Japan in the 1940's provoked the attack on Pearl Harbor, hence, being our "own fault".

It is not logically consistent to link an opinion about the causes of WWII with the causes of 9/11; a rational person could hold vastly differing opinions about both.

No one has proposed America is "to blame" for the 9/11 attacks... clearly, the perpetrators of the attacks are to blame. Nor does America "deserve" the attacks, nor did the victims "deserve" to die.

It has been suggested that American foreign policy helped lead to the attacks... suggesting this does not mean that someone should "leave America", except to the most purile and fascist of mindsets.

if this means waging war across the globe against all foes believed to harbor, aid, finance, or otherwise engage in such activities, then so be it.

Even if this global war is based on a lack of evidence, and actually exacerbates the situation, eh? Nice.

One can distinguish, by the way, between global acts against threats to the US and the war in Iraq. They are not necessarily linked, despite desperate ipso post facto attempts to describe them otherwise.

instead of criticizing our administration for waging such a global war, stop and remember what our goal is. to keep our happy asses safe and alive for so long as our creator wishes.

Way to not only gank the thread, but completely mischaracterize the opposition opinion. If the invasion of Iraq had actually had anything to do with a direct threat to the States, you'd find far more support for it.

also keep in mind when blabbering about how our current republican administration should be handling this crisis, please remember our last democratic president passed on many opportunities to catch or kill bin laden but passed on the notion because it wasnt in our interests to do so.

Again, nice way to mischaracterize the facts. The only time the Clinton administration "passed up" a chance with Bin Laden was when Bin Laden had directly committed *no* crimes against the United States, and had no jurisdiction over him.

Never mind the simple fact that the actions of the Clinton administration are actually completely immaterial when it comes to the failures, lies, and incompetencies of the current administration. Even if Clinton failed utterly, that's no excuse for Bush.

...molesting interns on the taxpayer time clock.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you're not rising above this sort of inflammatory rhetoric. Or maybe you simply don't understand the meaning of the word "molest". There is a certain lack of consent implied, n'est-ce pas? (Whoops, I used French, I must be a traitor!)

In the end, since you aren't demonstrating that the Bushies aren't a bunch of corrupt, lying thieves that have led the US and its so-called "coalition" into an illegal, immoral, failing war in Iraq, it can't hurt to lash out at its critics and even past Presidents, right?

I'm sorry for the vitriol and the thread gankage, but this kind of stuff is simply too much to silently bear.

 

[heretic888]

Nice, peachy. Nice. :asian:

 

[Bammx2]

Sapper.......

:asian:

 

[Sapper6]

It is not logically consistent to link an opinion about the causes of WWII with the causes of 9/11; a rational person could hold vastly differing opinions about both.

and they are different how...? logically consistent? have you looked in to Pearl? you'd be suprised just how "logically consistent". and btw, im not talking to include all of WW2, just one integral part, Pearl Harbor.
it only makes sense, we are speaking here about 9/11, not the global war on terror.

Way to not only gank the thread...

LOL, too funny!

Again, nice way to mischaracterize the facts. The only time the Clinton administration "passed up" a chance with Bin Laden was when Bin Laden had directly committed *no* crimes against the United States...

do a little more research, then get back with me

Or maybe you simply don't understand the meaning of the word "molest". There is a certain lack of consent implied, n'est-ce pas?

perhaps you don't.

In the end, since you aren't demonstrating that the Bushies aren't a bunch of corrupt, lying thieves...

that's not even close to the topic of the thread, i like to keep it on topic

n'est-ce pas? (Whoops, I used French, I must be a traitor!)

???...guilty conscience...? where did that come from? ya gotta love them french online dictionaries :idunno: .

No one has proposed America is "to blame" for the 9/11 attacks... clearly, the perpetrators of the attacks are to blame. Nor does America "deserve" the attacks, nor did the victims "deserve" to die.

perhaps the most intelligent statement you've made thus far. why hell, that even deserves positive rep points, allow me to ablige... :asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

and they are different how...? logically consistent? have you looked in to Pearl? you'd be suprised just how "logically consistent". and btw, im not talking to include all of WW2, just one integral part, Pearl Harbor.
it only makes sense, we are speaking here about 9/11, not the global war on terror.



LOL, too funny!



do a little more research, then get back with me



perhaps you don't.



that's not even close to the topic of the thread, i like to keep it on topic



???...guilty conscience...? where did that come from? ya gotta love them french online dictionaries :idunno: .



perhaps the most intelligent statement you've made thus far. why hell, that even deserves positive rep points, allow me to ablige... :asian:

My Apologies for being late to this party.

My sanity and intelligence have been called into qustion before, and maybe will be again.

Pearl Harbor was the act of a sovereign nation in its agressive acts to move forward and gain more natural resources for its culture and economy. Now, Pearl did not have the resources, the USA does. Both San Deigo for it's port and San Franciso for its wealth and locations were also choices that teh Japanese wanted. Some of the top admirals also wanted to hit Pearl Harbor in the U.S. territory of Hawai'i and then roll onto the San Deigo and take out all West Coast Port manufacturing facilities and create a place to launch land base attacks from.


9/11/2001 assault on the Twin Towers in NY, and the Pentagon, as well as the downed airplane, were terrorist attacks by individuals and groups with no clear sovereign nation behind them flying a flag.

To me these simple semantics might be small, yet it is the difference of the two, that I would like to bring up.

Now given, that I have reasonable stated the above, it would be reasonable to argue that people might or would have different opinions based upon these difference alone. Now add in the cultural differences of the USA for both times, and the equations start to get real complex.

Now I will grant, that one could argue they were suprise attacks, and made the general populace upset.

Just my thoughts and opinions based upon my little knowledge of history, WWII or the Second Big War, and recent history.

 

[Nightingale]

MT MOD NOTE:

Play nice, or it's getting locked.

-Nightingale-
MT MODERATOR

 

[8253]

Oh my, such arguing over such a simple subject. Dosent matter about race, and hey WWII is over. Some idiot decided to have some planes hit some buildings and kill several thousand people. Then some other idiot decided to condone it. Not cool. I usually try to stay out of these types of arguments, but i cant resist this one. It is disturbing to see people arguing about the reasons why a person would condone such a cowardly attack on civilians. There are no reasons that could be explained to me that could make such an attack make sense. Unfortunately in this particular case the person has the right to voice his opinion. This is just my opinion hopefully it will not offend anyone but really 9-11 was a tragic moment in time and really should not be rejoiced by anyone. No matter what the so called reasons. There are no reasons to murder 1 person, much less thousands at a time.