Rank titles in Kenpo?

[Goldendragon7]

No, Not Important is a little off in his/her information. As listed in the Infinite Insights Book 2 page 10, the correct Black Belt titles are as follows........

1st Degree Black = Junior Instructor
2nd Degree Black = Associate Instructor
3ed Degree Black = Head Instructor
4th Degree Black = Senior Instructor
5th Degree Black = Associate Professor
6th Degree Black = Professor
7th Degree Black = Senior Professor
8th Degree Black = Associate Master
9th Degree Black = Master
10th Degree Black = Senior Master

GrandMaster and Senior GrandMaster are not mentioned.

After Mr. Parker died many of the loyal higest ranking Black Belts started referring to Mr. Parker as the "Senior" Grand Master. This was done out of respect to maintain Edmund K. Parker's position in proper perspective in relation to HIS art (American Kenpo) since several of his top Black Belts moved on to become Founders, 10th Degrees & Grandmasters of thier own Ed Parker Kenpo Systems. The fitting title spread throughout the world and stuck.



:asian:

 

[Klondike93]

I find it interesting how when Mr. Parker died a lot of the high ranking black belts said there would never be another 10th degree as that was Mr. Parker's only. Yet here we are 10 years later and you need all of your limbs to count the number of 10th degrees on. Just currious how others feel.

:asian:

Chuck

 

[Goldendragon7]

Many left and did their own thing while Mr. Parker was alive, so it is no surprise that this happened, besides, if you check history, every major martial arts organization has had splits from its top people either prior to the main leader passing or soon there after.

In a perfect world it sure would be nice to have a higher degree of order and unity. I guess we will just have to accept the State as it is today and do as we always have done which is search for the truth until you find it.

When you do, be appreciatiave of what you have and try to give back to the future generations.

:asian:

 

[Klondike93]

But what are they doing? It looks like Ed Parker's American Kenpo to me, and he can be the only 10th there. One thing I allways admired about Mr. Parker was his humility about his rank. He dies and suddenly a lot of his top black belts believe they are now 10th.

:asian:

Chuck

 

[Goldendragon7]

Well, everyone has their own agendas. So each broke off and did what they thought best or were forced to do.

Joe Palanzo was the first to immediately leave the IKKA and develop his own organization. He is first last and always a businessman, I salute him for his talent.

Larry Tatum was not in the IKKA for a couple of years prior to Mr. Parker's death so he started his own thing.

Now we are down to 3 choices......

Dave Hebler was not in the mix for some time so he began the OKKA, same with Chuck Sullivan and his IKCA.

Several others got together and formed the AKSC (LaBounty, Kelly, Planas, White, Trejo, Sepulveda, Conatser, Duffy, Speakman, Hawkins, Edmund Jr. and a host of other black belt..... but this didn't serve as a promotional organization so several broke out of that and formed their own organizations: Hawkins UKS, Speakman's AKKS, Conatser's IKKO, Duffy's AKF, Paul Mills eventually started the AKKI, Mike Pick with his UKF,m Skip Hancock kept with his Kenpo 2000 group, and others that I may off the top of my head have missed no disrespect intended.

Each talented individuals that are Keeping Kenpo alive and well as each sees fit ..... all have differing talents and objectives and all are doing a fine job today with their own groups.

:asian:

 

[vincefuess]

At first it was viewed as evil, but with an honest eye one sees that it has always been the case, and ever shall be. The martial arts have always split and divided, just as our own cells do. Purists want a pure source, but there really is no such thing. As knowledge is handed down, it is colored by those who hand it down. Once in awhile, we are blessed with a man like Ed Parker who is capable of encompassing and translating knowledge in such a manner as to be truly revolutionary. He took what he (at first) learned from Chow and revolutionized it- not only that- but he was a great communicator and teacher. He himself presented the material as a flowing, learning, changing, evolving thing.

It is a waste of time to dispute- it is better to absorb and learn. I do not posess the mind or skill of Ed Parker, and I will never make an impact on the world like he did. BUT- Kenpo is a part of me, and I share it how I can with those I can. I'm okay with that.

One legacy Ed Paker left for us is that of open-mindedness tempered with wisdom. Most everyone you meet has something to offer, just be willing to absorb it. I never met the man, but I feel he would agree with that statement. His teachings meant different things to different people, but they were HUGE nonethe less. I think that is a bigger picture.

Sorry- I am feeling particularly introspective tonight.

Vince

 

[Klondike93]

I didn't know that Tatum had broken away from Parker before he died. Do you know why? I thought he did it after Mr. Parker died so he could be out of the shadows so to speak.
Good answer though GoldenDragon7.

:asian:

Chuck

 

[vincefuess]

I heard through a few other Kenpoists that Tatum had fallen out with Mr. Parker over Tatum's zeal for having sex with students- one of whom got mad and turned things ugly. This is only hearsay, an I am posting it here to see if any of you can either dispell it or give it credence.

I heard this from a couple of totally unrelated sources, so it is either a fairly widespread rumor, or perhaps true.

I had an instructor once who used his school as a meat market and it caused tons of trouble. The temptation can be great, but it must be avoided.

 

[GouRonin]

If people want to use their dojo for that, hell, it's their school. I used to be opposed it until I remembered, you reap what you sow.

I mean, IF Tatum was like that, what about it? I never hear anything bad about his Kenpo.

If you don't like what he does, don't train there. I have left schools for similar reasons. I didn't like it so I left people who didn't mind it to their own.

 

[Klondike93]

Sounds like the "Balded God" once again shows who the boss is.

:rofl:

Chuck

 

[Kenpo viking]

I don't train American kenpo karate. I train Ed Parker's Kenpo karate.

which is a big diferents in my eyes. Ed Parker's kenpo left the americas long ago about 40 year ago.

I'm not much for halliluja U.S.A it's all about an art developed by a man not a nation. America can not take credit for this. But I understand in there internal identification process in the US the name came about.

I train a system. Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate period
And I train and teach it in Sweden and in any other place that are interested to see my personal style of the art ( my interpretation).
Which has been formed by many instructors during the years.

Respectfully
Ingmar Johansson
Sweden



:angel: :viking3: :viking2: :mp5:

 

[Goldendragon7]

With all due respect, Ed Parker "HIMSELF" was the one that termed what he wanted his art called which was Ed Parker's "American" Kenpo. He purposely dropped the Karate in recent years. This particular "term" (American) came into play in or around early 1980. Mr. Parker's desire was to desginate that this was the first Art to be actually formed on American soil, not a transplanted system from another cournty such as many of the Chinese Arts which have been here for many many years prior. Okinawan, Japanese and Korean Arts followed as well. American is not trying to claim title Ed Parker was.

I agree with you that Ed Parker's Art, did in fact, become truly international (Canada, Mexico, Chile, as well as other South American countires, Australia, Japan, Ireland, England, Germany, Sweden, Denmark and other surrounding European courntries years ago.

I'm sure he meant no disrespect to other countries by the use of the term "American". and I also agree with you that our art is greatly about the Art and the man that developed it and not so much the country, but you must realize that Mr. Parker was a proud patriot by his own choice.

I train the same system as you do. Ed Parker's American Kenpo. I think you should call it Ed Parker's Kenpo, (that would be my second preferable choice) since Mr. Parker eventually wanted the term "Karate" dropped from his systems name due to it being Japanese or Okinawan in origin.

Keep in mind, there are several "Names" for the same system (Ed Parker's American Kenpo) such as Kenpo Karate, Chinese Kenpo, Chinese Kenpo Karate, Ed Parker's Karate, Ed Parker's Kenpo, Parkers Kenpo Karate, and several others.

No matter what you call it, it still is "Kenpo" and that like you stated is really the main thrust of what we should focus on. I have friends in "Kenpo" that use many of the terms listed above to designate their businesses but it is just a matter of semantics. If it comes to a history lesson then I will state the facts for the record, other than that ....... lets just learn from each other regardless what you call it.

So, Ingmar, call it what makes you feel good, I still respect you for the great job that you are doing in Sweden!


:asian:

 

[Kenpo viking]

Thank you Dennis for your historical input. It was interesting to read that Mr Parker took out the word karate in a very early stage.

I know there is a big diferent between our countries. Karate is in many peoples ears a negative word here in Sweden. Therefore we have taken out the word from our name. Our schools name is Kenpo self-defence studio and it has done us very good.

And not signing my letters with Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate and leave the word karate out is not a bad idea.

The word karate make me think on a hard Japanese system with very low stances. Something we don't do. I feel the word karate gives us unjust name for something we are not.

I have to think a little on the idea to only sign my letters with Ed Parker's Kenpo. That is food for thought.

I agree no organisation or name can change the feelings I have for my martial art friends independent what they call themselves.

Ones again thank you for your kind words.

Respectfully

Ingmar Johansson
Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate Sweden






:asian: :rtfm: :viking2: :viking3: :asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Yes, we are on the same page. I only use the word when I have to for business recognition. Here in the US, Karate is the one word everyone knows and thinks or references some form of Martial Arts with. Kung Fu, Kenpo, Shotokan, Wado, Praying Mantis, Won Hop Kuen Do, Escrima, Kali, Tae Kwon Do or many other words when used alone does not give the General Public a quick "one word" reference to what business is in this location.

I know of many different typed of Martial Art Studios (most of them listed above) across the American that only use the name "Karate" on their sign. It is less expensive and has that one word eye catching ability. Once people come into the stuios each one then explains exactly which version of "Martial Art" they are doing.

:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Remember our conversation in the restaurant? I found that in "Triggered Salute" that the bicep insert was taking away my technique as I wanted it. But if I change the angle of the strike I can use it to not only check the arm but also use opposing forces. Thanks for giving me a outside look at what I was doing!
:iws:

 

[Kenpo viking]

I'm glad I could help you
Oh by the way who are you???????

Hiiiii, hiiii
Ingmar

:moon: :moon: :moon: :moon:

 

[Kenpo viking]

Hey Gou

Is Jaybacca your friend. Did you know that vaca meens cow in spanish. Is there any relation there.

By the way when is your mexican judo classes begining.
But I guess its all Pats fault!!!!!

Ingmar
El Vikingo

:boing1: :hammer: :viking2: :viking3:

 

[Goldendragon7]

No, Wookies are not even close to cows! Wayyyyyyy too hairy! LOL

Judo know if he has a gun.......
Judo know if he has a knife.....

What I do know is the difference between Karate
and Judo........

Karate is the Art of Self Defense....

Judo is what you make Bagels out of!

:rofl:

:asian:

 

[Rob_Broad]

After working with Gou last sunday something was rank, but I don't think it was his title.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Is he morphing into a Babby Wookie toooooooooooooo!