Rank titles in Kenpo?

[Klondike93]

I find it interesting how when Mr. Parker died a lot of the high ranking black belts said there would never be another 10th degree as that was Mr. Parker's only. Yet here we are 10 years later and you need all of your limbs to count the number of 10th degrees on. Just currious how others feel.

:asian:

Chuck

 

[Klondike93]

But what are they doing? It looks like Ed Parker's American Kenpo to me, and he can be the only 10th there. One thing I allways admired about Mr. Parker was his humility about his rank. He dies and suddenly a lot of his top black belts believe they are now 10th.

:asian:

Chuck

 

[Klondike93]

I didn't know that Tatum had broken away from Parker before he died. Do you know why? I thought he did it after Mr. Parker died so he could be out of the shadows so to speak.
Good answer though GoldenDragon7.

:asian:

Chuck

 

[Goldendragon7]

No, Not Important is a little off in his/her information. As listed in the Infinite Insights Book 2 page 10, the correct Black Belt titles are as follows........

1st Degree Black = Junior Instructor
2nd Degree Black = Associate Instructor
3ed Degree Black = Head Instructor
4th Degree Black = Senior Instructor
5th Degree Black = Associate Professor
6th Degree Black = Professor
7th Degree Black = Senior Professor
8th Degree Black = Associate Master
9th Degree Black = Master
10th Degree Black = Senior Master

GrandMaster and Senior GrandMaster are not mentioned.

After Mr. Parker died many of the loyal higest ranking Black Belts started referring to Mr. Parker as the "Senior" Grand Master. This was done out of respect to maintain Edmund K. Parker's position in proper perspective in relation to HIS art (American Kenpo) since several of his top Black Belts moved on to become Founders, 10th Degrees & Grandmasters of thier own Ed Parker Kenpo Systems. The fitting title spread throughout the world and stuck.



:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Many left and did their own thing while Mr. Parker was alive, so it is no surprise that this happened, besides, if you check history, every major martial arts organization has had splits from its top people either prior to the main leader passing or soon there after.

In a perfect world it sure would be nice to have a higher degree of order and unity. I guess we will just have to accept the State as it is today and do as we always have done which is search for the truth until you find it.

When you do, be appreciatiave of what you have and try to give back to the future generations.

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Well, everyone has their own agendas. So each broke off and did what they thought best or were forced to do.

Joe Palanzo was the first to immediately leave the IKKA and develop his own organization. He is first last and always a businessman, I salute him for his talent.

Larry Tatum was not in the IKKA for a couple of years prior to Mr. Parker's death so he started his own thing.

Now we are down to 3 choices......

Dave Hebler was not in the mix for some time so he began the OKKA, same with Chuck Sullivan and his IKCA.

Several others got together and formed the AKSC (LaBounty, Kelly, Planas, White, Trejo, Sepulveda, Conatser, Duffy, Speakman, Hawkins, Edmund Jr. and a host of other black belt..... but this didn't serve as a promotional organization so several broke out of that and formed their own organizations: Hawkins UKS, Speakman's AKKS, Conatser's IKKO, Duffy's AKF, Paul Mills eventually started the AKKI, Mike Pick with his UKF,m Skip Hancock kept with his Kenpo 2000 group, and others that I may off the top of my head have missed no disrespect intended.

Each talented individuals that are Keeping Kenpo alive and well as each sees fit ..... all have differing talents and objectives and all are doing a fine job today with their own groups.

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

With all due respect, Ed Parker "HIMSELF" was the one that termed what he wanted his art called which was Ed Parker's "American" Kenpo. He purposely dropped the Karate in recent years. This particular "term" (American) came into play in or around early 1980. Mr. Parker's desire was to desginate that this was the first Art to be actually formed on American soil, not a transplanted system from another cournty such as many of the Chinese Arts which have been here for many many years prior. Okinawan, Japanese and Korean Arts followed as well. American is not trying to claim title Ed Parker was.

I agree with you that Ed Parker's Art, did in fact, become truly international (Canada, Mexico, Chile, as well as other South American countires, Australia, Japan, Ireland, England, Germany, Sweden, Denmark and other surrounding European courntries years ago.

I'm sure he meant no disrespect to other countries by the use of the term "American". and I also agree with you that our art is greatly about the Art and the man that developed it and not so much the country, but you must realize that Mr. Parker was a proud patriot by his own choice.

I train the same system as you do. Ed Parker's American Kenpo. I think you should call it Ed Parker's Kenpo, (that would be my second preferable choice) since Mr. Parker eventually wanted the term "Karate" dropped from his systems name due to it being Japanese or Okinawan in origin.

Keep in mind, there are several "Names" for the same system (Ed Parker's American Kenpo) such as Kenpo Karate, Chinese Kenpo, Chinese Kenpo Karate, Ed Parker's Karate, Ed Parker's Kenpo, Parkers Kenpo Karate, and several others.

No matter what you call it, it still is "Kenpo" and that like you stated is really the main thrust of what we should focus on. I have friends in "Kenpo" that use many of the terms listed above to designate their businesses but it is just a matter of semantics. If it comes to a history lesson then I will state the facts for the record, other than that ....... lets just learn from each other regardless what you call it.

So, Ingmar, call it what makes you feel good, I still respect you for the great job that you are doing in Sweden!


:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Yes, we are on the same page. I only use the word when I have to for business recognition. Here in the US, Karate is the one word everyone knows and thinks or references some form of Martial Arts with. Kung Fu, Kenpo, Shotokan, Wado, Praying Mantis, Won Hop Kuen Do, Escrima, Kali, Tae Kwon Do or many other words when used alone does not give the General Public a quick "one word" reference to what business is in this location.

I know of many different typed of Martial Art Studios (most of them listed above) across the American that only use the name "Karate" on their sign. It is less expensive and has that one word eye catching ability. Once people come into the stuios each one then explains exactly which version of "Martial Art" they are doing.

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

http://www.kenpokarateshreveport.com/Larry Tatum.htm

From Dave Hoppers site.......

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

others may vary a little..........:asian:

 

[cypress]

In Hawaii professor is the highest title. It means you are the founder or head of your system/orginization

 

[jfarnsworth]

I believe in the beginning or ending of that article he stated that he changed some wording (left some stuff out and put others in he thought was necessary). I've got that article around here somewhere.
Jason Farnsworth

 

[tonbo]

Our school works very similarly to Nightingale's. Black ranks and instructors (identified by a red gi top) are called "Mr.", "Mrs.", or "Ms.", accordingly. When taking class, all students are referred to by their first names. Outside of class, when in street clothes, the students still call the instructors and Black Belts by "Mr.", "Mrs.", or "Ms.".....but that's just the way it's always been.

My head instructor actually wants people to call him by his first name when they are on a friendly basis with him. I am, and I still can't bring myself to do it........same goes with the higher rank Black Belts.....can't call them anything but by their "social" titles (Mr, Mrs, etc.).

I have read of the advanced titles, but have never actually seen them in practice. I don't disagree with them, but just haven't seen them used.

Peace--

 

[Michael Billings]

Great String guys!!!
:asian:

Thanks for the brief history Dennis, it makes it clearer in my head ... and I was around then. UKS was formed initially with Mr. Speakman and Mr. Hawkins before some business dispute forced a separation and Mr. Speakman and John Sepuveda getting together.

After Larry Tatum left, Bryan Hawkins managed the West LA school, that was part of my reason for going with them, besides I had seen him teach and done seminars that rocked.

I am glad some of the controversy is dying down now and people are getting on with teaching the Art. There are different things emphasized as different instructors have different interest, strengths, or relationships with Mr. Parker.

Excellent post "They Call Me Bruce??"

Keep it Real,
-Michael

 

[Seig]

When I told my students we may be dropping the title "Sensei", they were quite put out. We'll see where it goes.

 

[Nightingale]

in the school I train at, anyone who is teaching a class is addressed as Mr. or Ms., whether they're a black belt or not. The reasoning being that they are in front of the class and you are in the class because they know something you don't, and you need to respect that, and appreciate that they are willing to share. As a brown belt, I teach some classes, and when I'm teaching people address me as Ms. when I'm not teaching I get called by my first name. black belts, however, when in the studio, are always addressed as Mr. or Ms., whether they're teaching or not. Outside the studio, its up to them. I have some instructors that insist on first names outside the school, and some that prefer Mr. or Ms. all the time. We don't really hold with the fancy titles. I think I've only heard my instructor addressed by a title once or twice in the nine years I've trained with him.

 

[Nightingale]

hehe. I know what you mean...

my sparring instructor for about two years and I became good friends. he told me a million times to call him John, but it took me a few months to get used to it. now when I see him in the studio, I have to remind myself to call him Mr. instead of by his first name. he'd laugh it off, but if my head instructor heard it, I'd be doing push-ups for a year because brown belts ought to know better. LOL.

 

[Nightingale]

yes please...

enlighten us!
or at least give us the website addy!

 

[Nightingale]

very informative...thanks.