Rank Certificates

[britcanbulldogtkd]

Hello everybody,
I feel that certificates are personal to the individual and the pride that anyone in attaining a qualification is also personal
attending school university and earning diploma is a credential you can to attain work The KKW certification is alledge to allow u to train as a black belt through out the world. Recognition of acheivements is something to proud of but any martial arts also teaches humbleness and respect I guess So the certification isnt a bragging right
I think the proof of how qualifications is in our actions and not in the bit of paper we hold. but i suppose to putting the certificates on the wall in a frame in our later years may remind us of what we have achieved the blood sweat and tears in achieving it and that little buzz we get when we remember all we have learned and all we taught

Unfortunately for me I may have to finish trainning owing to a shoulder injury cause at work waiting for a specialist report If I do retire for good maybe they papers will remind me of what I have attained and achieved and make me smile at the fun I had in doing so

 

[tkd1964]

Does anyone know when certificates in the MA's came into play? I remember reading of one Japanese/Okinawan instructor who recieved a certificate from his instructor but was more of a thank you for being a long and devoted student since he was leaving the country. I can't remember if it even said his rank or if he was an instructor. I believe back then, as it is now, most are interested in the learning and less interested on the piece of paper. :uhyeah:

 

[Windsinger]

I'm one who doesn't put a lot of stock in a little piece of paper saying how good you are at something. I guess it stems mainly from my computer experience. I've dealt with computers almost my entire life (both personally and professionally), but have no certifications. Yet I've met people that have their A+ and MCSE certifications that I wouldn't trust to plug in my keyboard.

 

[zDom]

What does your rank certificate mean to you, does this change who you are?

The experience of earning that paper changed who I was. If the document were to vanish, I would, however, still be who I am.

Has it made you a better person?

The experience of earning that paper definately made be a better person.

The paper did not.

Does it matter which one you have?

What mattered was selecting the right place to train, the right person to train under.

Is this piece of paper so valuble it is a lock box?

Nope. They look pretty on the wall in my home. I wouldn't like to lose them, but I'd have to find something else to hang on the wall if they weren't there

 

[jfarnsworth]

What does your rank certificate mean to you, does this change who you are?
Has it made you a better person?
Does it matter which one you have?
Is this piece of paper so valuble it is a lock box?

They mean you have been recognized by certain individuals that pretty much say they think you are worthy of being such and such rank.
After saying that. This can be a loaded question as well. Who are these people? Is this just a money scheme? Is it all propaganda for personal gain? Blah, blah, & more blah.

It does not change who I am.

It does matter to me which of the certificates I do have. If anyone questions me I can take it off my bedroom wall to show them who's name is on the certificate. Although, I can say, the important ones are on my bedroom wall. The rest are in a dresser drawer. All have photo copies just in case of any fire that might happen in my house hold. A photo copy might sound stupid but it's the best I have.

I still try to hold the ranking system with regards to personal achievement. I will not & do not promote anyone unless they deserve it. If they do not deserve it they wait to test. One of my recent students breezed through the blue curriculum. After we finished the material I told him he would wait at least 2 more months to test. He nodded & said ok. At this point he has about a 1/3 of his green material. (this is sort of a long story) When finishing his green he will wait again at least 2 months for refinement.

I have another that has all his black material. I told him he would wait until next year for his test. Both of these gentleman will tentatively be testing in front of my instructors instructor for their brown & black belts. This will act as a quality control. Makes sure I'm teaching the art as it should be & they are learning as they should be. In a year time will tell.

 

[Sukerkin]

An interesting topic, ladies and genlemen, with a great many excellent contributions - so many good ones in fact that you've all left me with nothing substantial to add :lol:.

One thing that I don't think has been touched on is how others react to your rank/certificates.

For example, my iai dan grade certificates are on display on our sideboard, with a picture of me taken just after I tested for my shodan. They're not there because I put them there but because my missus is immensely proud of my achievement and wants to show it off. To be honest, my nidan certificate annoys me a little because the directors at IMAF (UK) spelt my surname incorrectly :lol:.

When it comes to the effects of rank certificates 'in class', there aren't any really.

It affects where I go to stand in line when we have seminars and how frequently I might be called out to help demonstrate something but that's about it. I suppose that it also has an impact on how often I get asked questions but that's mainly from people who know my grade or have seen me perform a technique they're learning.

Hmmm ... maybe I should have my rank certifactes photo-printed onto my iaigi to prove how great I am ...

 

[dsuh86]

Well I would relate a college diploma to a KKW Certificate. It is good to show you have accomplished something and it will undoubtfully help you in the future, but it doesn't necessarily make you a better person. The steps of what you went through and learned during the training process is what you take with you. The certificate or 'the piece of paper' just shows others that you have accomplished something.

 

[newGuy12]

Well I would relate a college diploma to a KKW Certificate. It is good to show you have accomplished something and it will undoubtfully help you in the future, but it doesn't necessarily make you a better person. The steps of what you went through and learned during the training process is what you take with you. The certificate or 'the piece of paper' just shows others that you have accomplished something.

That's how I feel. It means a lot to me, but perhaps not to others. I am out of practice now, so that changes things of course. Since I don't look forward to being a teacher, this doesn't have the importance it would if I did.

I have it framed and it is in a drawer. I like the design of these certs, they are very impressive to me. At one time, I was in good practice, but...

Yes, it is nice looking, from the KKW. Even if I never get good technique back, people can always say after I am dead, "He was a 1st Dan, you know, he had the TKD Black Belt rank."

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

One thing that I don't think has been touched on is how others react to your rank/certificates.

My girlfriend says that knowing that I have a scond dan rank makes her feel safe. The fact that it is in kendo and not Taekwondo doesn't regisister with her. She equates having a blackbelt with being a skilled fighter.

Otherwise, I find that when non MA practicing people talk to me about martial arts, they tend to take my opinions very seriously, even if they ask me about an art that I don't practice. Weird, but the assumption is that by having a blackbelt in anything, I am an integral part of the martial arts world and have knowledge on some level about any martial art.

I have gone to a fair amount of effort to at least be conversant with martial arts that I do not personally practice, but that has nothing to do with my kendo blackbelt; that is personal study on my own part.

Daniel

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

It's nice to have my dan certificates, I worked really hard to earn them. But, I down hang them on the walls or display them anywhere. They're stacked in the corner at the back of my closet.

To me, my dan certificates are tattooed on my heart, so I don't need to show them off to anybody because I know in my heart how much Taekwondo and the martial arts mean to me personally. Nobody can ever take that away from me because I earned them through a lot of hard work, training, sweat, bumps, bruises, welts, ugly injuries, blood and utter determination and perserverence.

It was all worth it to me. :asian:

 

[YoungMan]

My Dan certificates are framed and will hang on the walls of our house someday, where they will be seen by special guests. What I'd like to have eventually is a room in the house for just my Taekwondo memorabilia.
To me, my certificates are just as valuable as my high school and college diplomas and will be showcased accordingly.

 

[Kwanjang]

Proper credentialing is never a bad thing. Displaying them, at least in my opinion, if you own a studio(s) Is never a bad thing either-as it relates to educating the student. We all did in fact earn them, would you conceed that the certificate and the black belt is merely recognition of achievment? It does not change who you are. For me, my National USCDKA World Chung Do Kwan 5th and my Kukkiwon 5th are important. I think certification says, " I am accountable" in my humble opinion is if certification is important to you GREAT! if not, thats cool too.

with much respect!

 

[Brad Dunne]

You have only one chance to make a first impression. That being said, when I venture into another dojang, the first thing I check is any and all certificates that are present. This to me is the first phase in a two parter and sets the tone for the second. If I suspect the credentials, then the owner of said credentials also becomes suspect. The second part is watching the class and how the students project themselves during the training. This can over ride the aspect of the credentials to a certain extent, but only to a limited basis. I personally have a questionable frame of mind when I see nothing for review. I have to ask myself, what is this person affraid of, that nobody is privy to the issuing rank authority. Your passing yourself off as a teacher to the general public and they do have the right to review your teaching certification(s).

 

[terryl965]

You have only one chance to make a first impression. That being said, when I venture into another dojang, the first thing I check is any and all certificates that are present. This to me is the first phase in a two parter and sets the tone for the second. If I suspect the credentials, then the owner of said credentials also becomes suspect. The second part is watching the class and how the students project themselves during the training. This can over ride the aspect of the credentials to a certain extent, but only to a limited basis. I personally have a questionable frame of mind when I see nothing for review. I have to ask myself, what is this person affraid of, that nobody is privy to the issuing rank authority. Your passing yourself off as a teacher to the general public and they do have the right to review your teaching certification(s).

Brad I understand what you are saying but I dis-agree, all my certificates is in my home where they belong. My GM does not have his up and either did any of my others Masters. I see it as if they have knowledge of there art and not a piece of paper saying it, to many 12-18 months BBand then find some other person to sigh off that he is higher and higher.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

You can do what I've seen doctors do, put a framed copy up. Most won't know they are copies, and you can always present the originals if need be.

 

[Twin Fist]

Terry,
I love ya brother, but i cant agree.

An accountant had better have his degree on the wall behind his desk. I expect to see it. same with a doctor, or a lawyer

An instructor is no different. If you are running a school, your certs should be displayed, either on the wall of the school, or more commonly, on the wall of your office.

IMO

With respect,
TF

 

[terryl965]

Terry,
I love ya brother, but i cant agree.

An accountant had better have his degree on the wall behind his desk. I expect to see it. same with a doctor, or a lawyer

An instructor is no different. If you are running a school, your certs should be displayed, either on the wall of the school, or more commonly, on the wall of your office.

IMO

With respect,
TF

I do have acopy in the school but not the certificate. To me this is two totally different things. Unlike a Doctor or Lawyer or Accountant, the certficate only has value to me. My students know who Iam and what I am and for the poor soul walking in all the trophys and medals and USAT and AAU awards along side pictures of me with so many named people, if that is not enough then my skill will speak for itself. I have seen way to many fake certs. in the world to really care about them anymore talent and knowledge has taken its place.

TF I will be down your way in a couple of weeks lets do lunch.

 

[Twin Fist]

sounds great, i look forward to it

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Brad I understand what you are saying but I dis-agree, all my certificates is in my home where they belong. My GM does not have his up and either did any of my others Masters. I see it as if they have knowledge of there art and not a piece of paper saying it, to many 12-18 months BBand then find some other person to sigh off that he is higher and higher.

Well stated Terry, I'm in total agreement with you. Certificates are nice to have, but your true experience and knowledge cannot be really determined from what's written on a piece paper. Sorta like you may have an MBA but does that mean you know how to successfully run a business?

 

[YoungMan]

The fact of the matter is that most Americans don't know a Kukkiwon from an ITF, ATA, or self made certificate. Sad but true. We know medical degrees, accounting degrees, and teaching certificates are earned from Universities. But I could say my Taekwondo certificate was earned from a totally fictitious or low class organization and most people could not tell the difference. That's one of the differences between Oriental culture and American culture. The fact that I have a legitimate Kukkiwon certificate is irrelevant to most people because they have no idea what it means.
That's why, when my students get more experience and know what the Kukkiwon and Chung Do Kwan mean, they will see my certificates.
Until then, I have my Kukkiwon ID card to prove I am legitimate.