Quitting Wing Chun

[MJS]

Can't say I agree. Yes, MJS, you're right about the first part. As Coffeerox himself has said, he needs to get his life together. On the other hand, committing yourself to MA training can be a great way to start getting it together, rather than just sitting around and getting really negative. On the "beginners" sub-forum there was a similar question raised. Somebody posted saying that they were really out of shape and asked if they should wait and get fit first before starting MA. Most everybody responded to the effect of, "NO! Just get started and you will get fit as you train". I'd say the same thing to Coffeerox. Start training and you might find the motivation to improve your situation!

In fact, I just started a new thread in the "Beginners Corner" to consider this very question. Please join me there.

I see your point and I do agree, the MA's can be a great way of getting your life in order. However, in this case, the OP seems to not have the following:

1) A phone
2) A reliable mode of transportation.
3) Any friends that will help him
4) Any family that will help him.
5) A stable source of income.

There may be more, but I think you get my point. It seems to me that martial arts training will not be possible, due to the 5 things I listed. That is why I suggested that the OP get his priorities together before seeking out MA training. I mean really, if you dont have a reliable source of transportation, how are you going to get there? Seems like my suggestions of a cab and bus and a ride from a friend and/or family, were shot down.

I stand by my comments.

 

[Tez3]

I see your point and I do agree, the MA's can be a great way of getting your life in order. However, in this case, the OP seems to not have the following:

1) A phone
2) A reliable mode of transportation.
3) Any friends that will help him
4) Any family that will help him.
5) A stable source of income.

There may be more, but I think you get my point. It seems to me that martial arts training will not be possible, due to the 5 things I listed. That is why I suggested that the OP get his priorities together before seeking out MA training. I mean really, if you dont have a reliable source of transportation, how are you going to get there? Seems like my suggestions of a cab and bus and a ride from a friend and/or family, were shot down.
I stand by my comments.

Geezer, a far better thing than castigating us would be to suggest ways the OP can overcome the above five points holding him back...now that would be of use to him!

 

[jks9199]

How about the fact that I said I did not have a phone yet the very next post, kept telling me to call this, call that.

How about the fact that I said my funds were very tight right now, and you kept pressing about taxi cabs and **** like that?

YOU DID NOT READ PERIOD.

Actually, I did. Unfortunately, I responded to some posts before reading subsequent posts, so information in a later post may not have been reflected in that reply. Other times, we may have cross posted, where my reply was in the works while you posted your own.

But let's take that pesky phone issue. You got feet? One of my biggest complaints about some newer officers is their willingness to accept phone interviews... rather than make arrangements to go out and actually talk to someone face to face. I hate talking on the phone; I'll often go out of my way to actually meet a person. What about sending a letter through the mail? Yeah, it's slow. But it works. Hell, did you try email?

Someone OFFERED you a bike. And your response was "No; I have one that's broken." Dude, a broken bike is an expensive paperweight. Unless you want another excuse -- which is exactly what I think you were after.

I'm very lucky to have internet access. My leech of a brother has always done nothing and it's always been up to me to pay it, I work data entry and do not get paid very much. There's lots of things that I needed but could not get b/c this one bill (which should be a group effort) ongoing late fees, past dues, etc. I decided enough was enough, that I needed time for myself and I passed the bill onto him. Having internet next month doesn't even look good right now. I lose internet, I lose access to my job.



No ****! But people keep adding fuel to the fire and my reaction is to try to put it out.

Of course, it's always someone else's fault. Step up and take some responsibility for your own choices and actions. You keep saying "if it was only 2008"... which is about when you apparently started your do-it-yourself idea.

You might find these two blog entries by Rory Miller interesting and instructive:
That's Amazing!
Permission

Look, it's really simple. If training in Wing Chun, Sumito, or whatever is what you want to do -- you'll make it happen. If you're making excuses, and it's always someone else's fault that things aren't working... maybe you need to look somewhere else first. It sure seems like nobody wants to work with you -- even when they were going to work out anyway. That suggests that just maybe, you need to look at things from a different perspective... Sometimes, when we look around and find everyone disagreeing with us -- maybe, just maybe, we're wrong ourselves, no?

 

[MJS]

You quoted me telling you nobody, this is an answer I've already provided.



so I can be criticized even more further? I'm 26.

Wow...we're going on 5 pages now. I must enjoy punishing myself, as I keep replying. LOL. Anyways....I dont know what to tell ya man, other than what I already have. My suggestions....again...are: find a stable means of transportation. Bicycle, moped, motorcycle, car, anything that works and can get you from point a to point b. Find a stable source of income. Reason why I put the transportation first, is because without that, you wont be able to get to the job.

Other than that, I dont know what else to say.

 

[Tez3]

A quick aside about letters, most people I know actually like getting them. employers see it as someone taking the time to put pen to paper which means trouble is taken and shows a willingness to put oneself out. People love a thank you letter rather than a text or email, shows consideration. Lovers cherish letters on paper, again, so much better than a text or email. Soldiers on deployment love letters too, they're personal and warm so find a soldier to write to.

Ok back on track now!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Actually, there's some excellent advice by Larry Winget that seems to fit...."If your life sucks, it's because you suck.". So...stop sucking. Simple. I see a ton of excuses. A ton of "reasons why I can't". A ton of fingers pointed at other people. "My job doesn't pay well". So get a better job. Get -another- job. Get a different job. Start a business you can work from home on the side 1day a week. etc. "My brother x". Phooey on your brother. Find someone else. "My friends x". Phooey on your friends. Find different ones, find better ones, find new ones, etc. "I don't have a phone". Borrow one. Drop 25c in a pay phone. Ask a neighbor, your landlord, one of those previously mentioned friends. "I don't have a car, the bus and cab are too expensive, and my bike is busted and it's too far to walk.". wah wah wah. Bum a ride, suck it up and fix the income problem then get there. You got offered a bike, dude I woulda taken the offer, got things done, then passed the bike on to another hard-luck person in a few months.

Seriously, nothing in that list is a game killer, except the 'excuses'. It seems you want us to "understand" your obstacles, and 'sympathize" with you.

Sorry, no sympathy here. No compassion, and most importantly, no caring. NMP. Not. My. Problem. That whole, I've got my own list of obstacles, ironically much the same. No car, income level sucks, training I want is too far away. Medical issues. Hey, I got spinal damage AND carpel tunnel. Oh and right now, no AC and my flat's fracking 100'F right now. And....and who the hell cares about the rest of the list. You do what you can do, you do what you have to do, until you make things better and can make things change. Period. That means sucking it up, popping pain pills and dealing, period.

Like Larry, and I said. If your life sucks, it's because you suck. So, stop sucking.
I'm done.

 

[Tez3]

Actually, there's some excellent advice by Larry Winget that seems to fit...."If your life sucks, it's because you suck.". So...stop sucking. Simple. I see a ton of excuses. A ton of "reasons why I can't". A ton of fingers pointed at other people. "My job doesn't pay well". So get a better job. Get -another- job. Get a different job. Start a business you can work from home on the side 1day a week. etc. "My brother x". Phooey on your brother. Find someone else. "My friends x". Phooey on your friends. Find different ones, find better ones, find new ones, etc. "I don't have a phone". Borrow one. Drop 25c in a pay phone. Ask a neighbor, your landlord, one of those previously mentioned friends. "I don't have a car, the bus and cab are too expensive, and my bike is busted and it's too far to walk.". wah wah wah. Bum a ride, suck it up and fix the income problem then get there. You got offered a bike, dude I woulda taken the offer, got things done, then passed the bike on to another hard-luck person in a few months.

Seriously, nothing in that list is a game killer, except the 'excuses'. It seems you want us to "understand" your obstacles, and 'sympathize" with you.

Sorry, no sympathy here. No compassion, and most importantly, no caring. NMP. Not. My. Problem. That whole, I've got my own list of obstacles, ironically much the same. No car, income level sucks, training I want is too far away. Medical issues. Hey, I got spinal damage AND carpel tunnel. Oh and right now, no AC and my flat's fracking 100'F right now. And....and who the hell cares about the rest of the list. You do what you can do, you do what you have to do, until you make things better and can make things change. Period. That means sucking it up, popping pain pills and dealing, period.

Like Larry, and I said. If your life sucks, it's because you suck. So, stop sucking.
I'm done.

You know sucking can be good sometimes, right? :wink2:


See I knew there was a reason we don't use that phrase!

We would say.... get a life!

I'm sure the Aussies have something very pithy along the same lines.

 

[Tez3]

This thread popped up again, while it may not be of use to the OP it does prove there's people who are willing to help others train.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76042

 

[Tensei85]

Yep I'm well aware of that. I understand that from outside looking in, it looks like 'chop-suey'. Heck I feel that way about Jeet Kune Do concepts and Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do.

I might not know all the differences between the systems, but I do recognize (and study) the differences. For example, William Cheung's Wu Sao covers the face rather than the traditional mid level in his SNT form.

• Michael Wong's dummy form uses two vertical closed fist strikes rather than two open palm strikes.
• William Cheung's dummy form includes footwork not found in others.
• Wong Shun Leung's dummy form has 138 moves instead of traditional 116
• There are mainland China forms that performs a strike with a Fook Sao (I've seen Michael W. do this too) at the end of the movement.
• Michael Wong's system prefers a neutral, boxing like stance rather than lead leg, man/wu sao
• Another of difference of MW's system, he prefers hard powerful strikes to disable an opponent in as few hits as possible. He teaches and emphasizes limb destruction when possible.

It's like Bruce Lee said in his Tao of Jeet Kune Do. When he was young, a punch was a punch, and kick was a kick. When he learned a system, a punch was no longer a punch, and a kick was no longer just a kick. Once he became proficient in that system, a punch was a punch and kick was a kick.

That's a great observation! However as any beginner your only looking at it from a technique perspective which is to be expected from someone with virtually no training from a Sifu - Student atmosphere.

You might see that William Cheung has a Wu Sau that covers his face, and Michael Wong has two vertical Punches but "Do You Know Why"?

Do you know the subtleties of how their postures are utilized? Do you know why they utilize the concepts that they do?

I've seen hundreds of Wing Chun students that have been training for 5+ years and had their heads up their butt's, they were pretty well clueless, how do you think you can rise above this as a quiet observer? Without even having a Sifu?

I'm sorry but in Chinese Martial Arts especially, we have always utilized the need for a qualified Sifu to teach his "to dai". It's nothing against you but that's how it works, that's why I disagree with what a lot of persons have stated about learning online, books, etc... I don't feel its completely illogical or doesn't have a reason to it, but my entire point is that their are so many clueless, not so good Martial Artist out there that have great Instructors, so how can you be a 1/2 decent one without??

For me it comes down to Work hard, Train hard, Recover, Research & take all your Instructors advice but in a logical way so again research it.

Sorry if this is coming as an insult to you, as I don't mean it personally. I'm just a little worried about Youtube warriors thinking what they are obtaining is genuine. (That's just my thought, probably biased maybe incorrect but take it for what its worth)

Again I think you've solidified you don't want to train M.A. so enjoy video games.

Take Care,

 

[coffeerox]

Do you know the subtleties of how their postures are utilized?

For example, in Chu Shong Tin's SNT, the Wu Sao coming in is actually the elbow sinking and not the joint moving the arm forward/backward. The Fook Sao coming out is very relaxed so as not to train the muscles. These two concepts (and more) are practiced when I do SNT.

About William Cheung's Wu Sao. Sifu Phillip Redmond told me himself that it covers the face for high attacks.

how do you think you can rise above this as a quiet observer? Without even having a Sifu?

Because my Kung Fu is great. I'm not like other people. The things that I choose to do, I excel at. I pick up things really quick and I perform analysis and contemplate on things that other people don't do. My SNT gradually got better and better because I constantly studied and analyzed various sources to gain insight on the form. I was learning something new every day. I admit, I do not know where I stand compared to other people but I am doing the best I can with what I have.

Not just martial arts, but I'm a do-it-yourself person for nearly everything. I learned how to build and configure computers by myself. I fixed my own PS3, did my own pest control. I'm just at a point where I'm used to teaching myself how to do things and a large part of that is drawing upon resources and following directions.

 

[MJS]

For example, in Chu Shong Tin's SNT, the Wu Sao coming in is actually the elbow sinking and not the joint moving the arm forward/backward. The Fook Sao coming out is very relaxed so as not to train the muscles. These two concepts (and more) are practiced when I do SNT.

About William Cheung's Wu Sao. Sifu Phillip Redmond told me himself that it covers the face for high attacks.



Because my Kung Fu is great. I'm not like other people. The things that I choose to do, I excel at. I pick up things really quick and I perform analysis and contemplate on things that other people don't do. My SNT gradually got better and better because I constantly studied and analyzed various sources to gain insight on the form. I was learning something new every day. I admit, I do not know where I stand compared to other people but I am doing the best I can with what I have.

Not just martial arts, but I'm a do-it-yourself person for nearly everything. I learned how to build and configure computers by myself. I fixed my own PS3, did my own pest control. I'm just at a point where I'm used to teaching myself how to do things and a large part of that is drawing upon resources and following directions.

2 questions for you:

1) Looking at this post and others, you state that you have a WC background. What happened to that school, that you had to leave?

2) Am I safe to assume that at one point, while you were training, you had money, transportation, etc.?

 

[Tensei85]

For example, in Chu Shong Tin's SNT, the Wu Sao coming in is actually the elbow sinking and not the joint moving the arm forward/backward. The Fook Sao coming out is very relaxed so as not to train the muscles. These two concepts (and more) are practiced when I do SNT

Because my Kung Fu is great. I'm not like other people. The things that I choose to do, I excel at. I pick up things really quick and I perform analysis and contemplate on things that other people don't do. My SNT gradually got better and better because I constantly studied and analyzed various sources to gain insight on the form. I was learning something new every day. I admit, I do not know where I stand compared to other people but I am doing the best I can with what I have.

.

Ok, let me say this you stated that your SNT gradually got better as you analyzed and.......

Thats great but how do you know?, because your utilizing your own opinion to validate what you have or haven't obtained?? Which is coming from what experience?

Dude what your doing is going to a Chinese restaurant & mixing everything you can find from whatever bar you can find & analyze it to see if it's good and call it SNT, that doesn't make any sense. There is always a reason to & why we perform SNT/SLT the way we do. I'm not disagreeing with you on analyzing things and making them your own, that should be the goal of all of us as striving Martial Artist, but you have to have something to begin with before you undertake such a valiant journey. Otherwise its just "chop socky" or Lap Sap.

I'm glad you have a desire to learn & are dedicating your time & efforts based on whatever & whenever you can. That's great, props to you.

There's a lot of W.C. guys in the Phoenix area, I wouldn't be suprised if you asked nicely if you couldn't get a Sifu to stop by even at your own home for lessons but you have to show a desire to learn & make the effort. Instructors look for that in a propsective student, show that to them & realize your dreams but in a more reliable manner.

But I'm out of here, take my advice or leave it either way I wish you the best & enjoy!

 

[zepedawingchun]

Because my Kung Fu is great. I'm not like other people. The things that I choose to do, I excel at. I pick up things really quick and I perform analysis and contemplate on things that other people don't do. My SNT gradually got better and better because I constantly studied and analyzed various sources to gain insight on the form. I was learning something new every day. I admit, I do not know where I stand compared to other people but I am doing the best I can with what I have.

You could have gone all day long and not said that. With an attitude like that, I would never let you through my kwoon door. Your cup is not empty and you forgot to check your ego at the door. I've heard that second line, along with all the others, a hundred times or more and each time it scares me. A majority of the time, people who use that, I find, are a waste of my time because:

1. They don't want to do it the way I teach it.
2. Too busy trying to impress everyone with what they think they know.
3. Think they are above everyone else in skill and knowledge.
4. Their fellow students don't like them and won't train with them.
5. I always have to prove to them why it's done this way instead of them finding out for themselves.
6. There's too much conflict between them and me because they won't give it a chance.

Empty your cup and leave your ego at home, otherwise, you won't be training very long . . . .at any school you attend.

 

[mook jong man]

For example, in Chu Shong Tin's SNT, the Wu Sao coming in is actually the elbow sinking and not the joint moving the arm forward/backward. The Fook Sao coming out is very relaxed so as not to train the muscles.

Well that's not quite correct , its actually a combination of the elbow sinking and the expansion and contraction of the angle at the elbow joint.

If all we did was raise and sink the elbow we would be training our elbow force to go up and down instead of directed forward towards the opponent where it can do the most damage.

 

[coffeerox]

you guys make an awful lot of assumptions.

 

[dosk3n]

Im not a sifu but if I was I know if someone came to me showing real interest in learning but explained there situation I would be happy to go to there home and give them a few lessons until they had the ability to pay.

I know I wouldnt give them constant training but I would still pop by to correct mistakes and help how I could.

I guess Im just kind lol.

 

[MJS]

you guys make an awful lot of assumptions.

Actually, I think alot of people are spot on with their assumptions. 6 pages....has anything productive come out of this? If we're lucky this thread will be closed soon.

 

[coffeerox]

Actually, I think alot of people are spot on with their assumptions.

You're not spot on with ****. I'm calling for a thread lock, better stop me soon.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

ADMIN NOTE: THREAD LOCKED

This has become a pointless rehash. Rather than continue to see it decline into a flame war, I'm locking it. The OP has a huge pile of solid advice. He can use it, or not.