Quitting Wing Chun

[MJS]

I'm not limited to WC. I've practiced a little bit of Shotokan and Boxing. I like Boxing but doesn't encompass what I want to learn, neither does Shotokan. There is actually a Shotokan school within 1 short bus ride. What I want to train in is an internal martial art, not these other hard styles.

I looked at your list, which btw I appreciate, the only one I was interested in was Bujinkan which I had no idea we had school here. I'll look into it but then I'll have to deal with fees. Financially right now is not a good time.

If thats the case, if you only want a softer/internal art, then it seems that you will have to wait until things work out better for you. Of course, I wouldn't consider BJJ a hard style, nor would I consider Kaju to be a hard style, such as Shotokan.

30 dollars minimum.

Actually, I can believe that. I was in Vegas recently, and almost fell over at the price of a cab. Amazing how quick it adds up.

That's the conclusion that I reached. I hope to get a new job and move down to Tempe or Mesa and finally get a formal education so that I'm not mocked by people for learning it myself.

Well, IMO, anytime people talk about learning something themselves, you will most likely run the risk of being mocked. Why? Because someone that attempts to learn from a source other than a live teacher, will find that it's not as easy as it seems, and many fine points will be missed. Now, dvds are a good reference tool. I would most likely get something out of one of Larry Tatums dvds, but I've already been doing Kenpo for quite some time, so chances are, I'd be able to pick up on what he's saying, better than someone who's never done Kenpo. Of course, live instruction from Larry would be even better.

Good luck in your search. I hope things work out for you.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Found 2 in our school listing.

Arizona Personal Protection Academy - Phoenix, Arizona, United States
Jeff Speakman (Kenpo) - Phoenix, Arizona, United States

Google gave me 98,000 hits on Phoenix Arizona Wing Chun.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&s....41998,-112.042694&spn=0.946776,1.029968&z=10

 

[dosk3n]

If you don't see the similarities, you're not looking hard enough.

I just want to say that you can find similarities in anything if you look hard enough. There is similarities in In a Twix and a can of Pepsi if you look hard enough as they both go in your mouth. You seen the film 23? If you look hard enough you will always find somthing that you want to see.

However please do not take this as if I am putting you or coffeerox down in anyway. I just wanted to make that point.

I actually think you should still just learn from books and DVDs etc (We sell DVDs on our site thought Id plug that ).

One of our top students lived at the bottom of the country and wanted to train with our Sifu only but we are based high in the north east so it wasnt possible. So he trained up in the north east a few weeks in the year doing privates every single night then went home and just trained on his own. Forms, Wall Bag etc... He eventually moved up to the North East and trains continuously now.

The point I want to make is that our lives dont always give us the time to train and doing what you can and when you can is what matters. Even if its not the greatest aproach it is at least something. Then in the future hopefully the door will open for a better training opertunity.

Just dont give up, youre trying and that is more than most people do these days.

 

[matsu]

dude for what its worth i would say continue doing what youre doing anything is better than nothing despite what some might say on here.
continue to look for a way of getting someone to you or perhaps a way of getting to a class-can you get a buddy with a view of sharing the fares/fees. can one of the class come to you and train on a regular basis?
there is a lot of crap on the internet but i still use it for ideas and tips that i can incorporate into my own training.-but be prepared for a sifu to have to undo some baaaad habits after a period of you training on your own.hell if i miss a week i have habits to undo-its human nature i think.

AND i would carry on with another MA untill you can access wing chun properly.
good luck with your pursuits.
and my last point is untill chat noir stuck up for the OP i was dissaapointed in the comments made,it felt like a digging session questioning his heart instead of some helpful advice- i know forum posting and texting can be read differently than the intent it was written with but even jks andd mjs posts were hardly supportive untill chat noir steamed in!!
coffeerox(great name btw) just go out and find "a" thing untill WC finds you,and keep self teaching. outa here-just my tuppence
matsu

 

[geezer]

Hey Coffeerox... Phoenix is a mecca for good Wing Chun. The only excuse for not training WC/WT/VT in the Phoenix area is that you don't know what's available, since some of the best stuff goes "under the radar" and is taught in garages, parks, YMCAs and at sub-let spaces belonging to other businesses.

I teach at the Christown YMCA in Phoenix, and at Kiwanis Park in Tempe. I may start another class at another park in the avenues. We'll see. My training partner (also doing WC/WT/VT since the late 70s and better than me) teaches in his garage in Peoria. His senior student teaches semi-privately out in Tolleson. His number two student is out in the East Valley towards Gilbert. Joy teaches Augustine Fong's WC at his home in Tempe. My Eskrima instructor also teaches a modified WC along with boxing and MMA. in the far E. Valley. There's also some EBMAS guys working privately in N. Scottsdale, and several other groups around, some teaching publicly. And if none of that works for you, I know some great FMA teachers working in parks and garages. Some top notch dudes.

Morever, if you get into a good group... people will help you out. For example, one of my students was out of work, had transportation issues and couldn't afford lesson fees. But he's really dedicated... so we got together, helped line up a temporary job for him and arranged for him to car-pool with other students. Problem solved!

So, like if you need a bike to get to the bus stops, I've got an old one I'd give you...if you were serious about training. Most instructors are like that. You just have to hold up your side of the bargain and show some dedication! So get on it dude!

 

[coffeerox]

Hey Coffeerox... Phoenix is a mecca for good Wing Chun. The only excuse for not training WC/WT/VT in the Phoenix area is that you don't know what's available, since some of the best stuff goes "under the radar" and is taught in garages, parks, YMCAs and at sub-let spaces belonging to other businesses.

See, how am I supposed to know about all this? I'm a ***** guide and I'm used to looking up online directories, etc and none of this stuff came up. There's no way I could know about this unless I knew the people involved.

Like I said, I found the other stuff outside of Phoenix, there's the Baseline school which is Ip Chun/Ching > Kwok lineage but that's 2hrs away and incompatible w/ the bus on the way back. There's Keith Sonnenberg out in Scottsdale (impossible bus trip) and Gilbert from LT lineage but that's even farther than the Baseline location. Finally I found Joy's school and another home ran one in Tempe the day before I posted my thread and again found that schedules were incompatible. I've checked some Shotokan schools and I wish that there were WC schools w/ similar schedules but unfortunately that is not available.

I teach at the Christown YMCA in Phoenix, and at Kiwanis Park in Tempe.

Christown is just a bus ride away so that would be something feasible in my situation.

So, like if you need a bike to get to the bus stops, I've got an old one I'd give you

Thx for the offer but I have a bike, it's just badly out of commission. Sad too cause it's a good bike. I'll try to fix it and see what I can do.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

How would you know? Well, you could try asking on a web forum......

 

[jks9199]

Or maybe actually contacting some of those schools that were too far away...

But, no, someone'd rather look on the web and try to do things on their own, then complain when nobody wants to play...

 

[MJS]

dude for what its worth i would say continue doing what youre doing anything is better than nothing despite what some might say on here.
continue to look for a way of getting someone to you or perhaps a way of getting to a class-can you get a buddy with a view of sharing the fares/fees. can one of the class come to you and train on a regular basis?
there is a lot of crap on the internet but i still use it for ideas and tips that i can incorporate into my own training.-but be prepared for a sifu to have to undo some baaaad habits after a period of you training on your own.hell if i miss a week i have habits to undo-its human nature i think.

AND i would carry on with another MA untill you can access wing chun properly.
good luck with your pursuits.
and my last point is untill chat noir stuck up for the OP i was dissaapointed in the comments made,it felt like a digging session questioning his heart instead of some helpful advice- i know forum posting and texting can be read differently than the intent it was written with but even jks andd mjs posts were hardly supportive untill chat noir steamed in!!
coffeerox(great name btw) just go out and find "a" thing untill WC finds you,and keep self teaching. outa here-just my tuppence
matsu

Speaking only for my posts, but I felt that I was supportive. It had nothing to do with anyone 'stepping in'. You are right, many times things online can be misunderstood...happens all the time. However, when someone asks a question, I give a stright forward answer. I dont sugar coat things. I give an opinion. Personally, I think it does a dis-service to someone if you intentionally say something with a false pretense, just to make someone feel good. The OP in this case, came on here, stating that he was unable to train, suggestions were offered. Apparently his situation at this time isn't suitable for those suggestions. Of course, if someone doesnt take full advantage of those suggestions, what else is there to say? I listed a number of schools in the area. I mentioned alternative transportation, all of which were shot down with excuses. What more would you like me to do? Here are the choices:

1) Dont train. Accept the fact that your schedule isn't good at this time. Dont complain about it, accept it!

2) Take those suggestions, and make them work.

Additionally, the OP seems dead set on WC, which is fine, but if its not an option, again you have the above choices, or you could train in something else in the meantime, until the travel situation improves.

 

[coffeerox]

Or maybe actually contacting some of those schools that were too far away...

There's no point in that if I can't get out there and come back. That was my reasoning and it's a good reason. I'm a usually down to business kind of guy and not very social. Of course, if I see things are not going to work out according to what's available (such as comparing schedules, distance, fees etc) then I come to a logical conclusion that it won't work out.

I'm used to doing business with an established set of rules. I had no idea I could talk to these teachers and work things out. It's not logical to me because why would they go out of their way to train me, 1 person, when they can train a group of people that does fit with what they require?

But, no, someone'd rather look on the web and try to do things on their own, then complain when nobody wants to play...

About me complaining that nobody wants to 'play'. That is more about the people i know, and my own community.

If I want to make it work through online lessons then why not? I was frustrated because my own friends, who I've been there for through everything, fail to be there for me when I need them? Is it so freaking hard to throw a full speed jab, cross, hook and uppercut? A lot of my friends can, and some are trained to do it.

One of my friends studies Jeet Kune Do (Jun Fan, not concepts) and he lives a mere 10 minutes away and he couldn't even be bothered to come by when we made an arrangement to come. He has been taught Chi Sao and other things from WC, so what could've been an excellent training opportunity for both of us, isn't, because people expect things out of me, but I can't receive in return.

Another of my brother's friends, we made an arrangement to start learning together. I told him about what was going on, and he wanted to learn too, but he wasn't serious enough. He did not come on the days we arranged and then one day pops up and he's like, aren't we supposed to train? I'm like, what? You can't just pop up randomly, and skip the days we talked about and expect to train.

Then there's my brother, he just doesn't want to do it. He's helped me at times so that I became familiar with the Lap Sao drill, swinging gate, etc and other things but like I said, he doesn't want to do it so every time I ask him he's off playing games or with other people.

Everybody else plays video games (Super Street Fighter 4) so outside of that hobby, they have work, family, etc and don't have time for MA. So you can see that I feel so isolated and alone. No schools that I've looked up, that I can get to, and nobody that I know that will work with me so I can put this into practice.

I can only look up the places that are in the phone book and Google Maps, etc so what I saw is what I used to make my assessment. There is nothing "wrong" with what I did at all.

 

[MJS]

I'm not JKS, but I'll comment anyways.

There's no point in that if I can't get out there and come back. That was my reasoning and it's a good reason. I'm a usually down to business kind of guy and not very social. Of course, if I see things are not going to work out according to what's available (such as comparing schedules, distance, fees etc) then I come to a logical conclusion that it won't work out.

I believe I had asked you about getting a ride from someone. Is there nobody that'd be willing to help you out? I know a cab is pricey, but if you want to train that bad, then IMO, it'd be worth it. As I said in another post, you'll never know what options are available to you, if you dont ask.

I'm used to doing business with an established set of rules. I had no idea I could talk to these teachers and work things out. It's not logical to me because why would they go out of their way to train me, 1 person, when they can train a group of people that does fit with what they require?

Well, IMO, a student is a student. The teacher is still getting money...as I said in another post, money is money. Again, if you never asked, how will you know? Seems to me that you already have it set in your head that the teacher will say no. Stop complaining about how they may not do this or do that, pick up the darn phone and make some calls. You may be surprised at what you find.

This isn't to say that a teacher may still turn you down, but thats fine...you move on to the next one.

About me complaining that nobody wants to 'play'. That is more about the people i know, and my own community.

If I want to make it work through online lessons then why not? I was frustrated because my own friends, who I've been there for through everything, fail to be there for me when I need them? Is it so freaking hard to throw a full speed jab, cross, hook and uppercut? A lot of my friends can, and some are trained to do it.

One of my friends studies Jeet Kune Do (Jun Fan, not concepts) and he lives a mere 10 minutes away and he couldn't even be bothered to come by when we made an arrangement to come. He has been taught Chi Sao and other things from WC, so what could've been an excellent training opportunity for both of us, isn't, because people expect things out of me, but I can't receive in return.

Another of my brother's friends, we made an arrangement to start learning together. I told him about what was going on, and he wanted to learn too, but he wasn't serious enough. He did not come on the days we arranged and then one day pops up and he's like, aren't we supposed to train? I'm like, what? You can't just pop up randomly, and skip the days we talked about and expect to train.

Then there's my brother, he just doesn't want to do it. He's helped me at times so that I became familiar with the Lap Sao drill, swinging gate, etc and other things but like I said, he doesn't want to do it so every time I ask him he's off playing games or with other people.

Everybody else plays video games (Super Street Fighter 4) so outside of that hobby, they have work, family, etc and don't have time for MA. So you can see that I feel so isolated and alone. No schools that I've looked up, that I can get to, and nobody that I know that will work with me so I can put this into practice.

I can only look up the places that are in the phone book and Google Maps, etc so what I saw is what I used to make my assessment. There is nothing "wrong" with what I did at all.

It may be possible to join a study group, or get together with a small group in a park, backyard, garage, etc. Some of my very best workouts have been in those settings. Why? Because its usually a group of people who're set one 1 thing...serious training. No egos, no fancy gis, no worry about getting a bump, cut, scrape, just some hard work. I'd rather work with those people any day, over a classroom setting. Dont get me wrong, I do take classes in a school, but you have a mixture of people, some who dont take the training as serious, are afraid to get hit, etc. Nothing wrong with working with them, but it does take awat from the more serous students.

 

[geezer]

About me complaining that nobody wants to 'play'. That is more about the people i know, and my own community.

Well, get used to that kind of disappointment and don't take it personally... I think most of us have the same problem!

If I want to make it work through online lessons then why not? I was frustrated because my own friends, who I've been there for through everything, fail to be there for me when I need them? Is it so freaking hard to throw a full speed jab, cross, hook and uppercut? A lot of my friends can, and some are trained to do it.

Actually, I think it is pretty hard for most people to learn how to throw good boxing punches without a good coach... and some decent training partners. And boxing is a very well known skill in our country. Wing Chun is far less well known, and even harder to learn without skilled partners since it is so tactile in it's training. The feeling just doesn't come across on video.

Another thing to keep in mind., the sub-systems of WC you've been looking at are not entirely compatible. Just like different ryu of karate, the different branches of WC vary in many important ways. It won't help you to study a chop-suey mix when you are just starting out. I think it's different for advanced practitioners. If, for example, some of the folks on this forum like Jin (Chinaboxer), Mook, and Joy all got together, they could probably have an enlightening discussion about such differences. But a beginning student would just get confused. Best to find a good Sifu and stick with him for a while.

One of my friends studies Jeet Kune Do (Jun Fan, not concepts) and he lives a mere 10 minutes away and he couldn't even be bothered to come by when we made an arrangement to come...

Another of my brother's friends, we made an arrangement to start learning together. I told him about what was going on, and he wanted to learn too, but he wasn't serious...

Then there's my brother, he just doesn't want to do it....

Everybody else plays video games (Super Street Fighter 4) so outside of that hobby, they have work, family, etc and don't have time for MA. So you can see that I feel so isolated and alone...

Yeah, that about sums up the way most people behave, especially in regards to the martial arts. They either aren't interested, or they talk big, and half the time never even show up for training. Like I said, you gotta get used to it. I't a fact of life. Just make sure that you don't do the same thing!!!

 

[coffeerox]

Is there nobody that'd be willing to help you out?

I keep having to emphasize this, but NO, there is NOBODY. Hence the frustration. That's the whole point of me making this post and saying the things I said. THERE'S NOBODY.

I know a cab is pricey, but if you want to train that bad, then IMO, it'd be worth it.

I also keep emphasizing that finances are not good right now. Sure, I can cough up the 60 bucks for the fee. The bus ride is pretty damned expensive. Coughing up this money also means that I have to work alongside having carpal tunnel. If I pay for the classes and bus rides, I sacrifice my health by not allowing it to heal.

Not only that, but making 102 (bus + fee) is also a long stretch b/c of other bills that get in the way. I already had to quit working to regain the strength in my hands and wrists. None of your suggestions work because they don't fit in with *my* life. You don't know my situation.

Well, IMO, a student is a student. The teacher is still getting money...as I said in another post, money is money. Again, if you never asked, how will you know? Seems to me that you already have it set in your head that the teacher will say no.

I never asked because most teachers that I've seen, list private lessons in the hundreds. I've seen it. It makes sense. I also cannot call because I do not have a phone. Up until a few months ago I was using Skype which only costs 3 dollars for unlimited calls. I had to cancel that. Just consider, just consider how bad my finances are at the moment if I had to cancel a 3 dollar unlimited phone service?

I'm not worried about the teacher saying no. Like I said, I'm down to business. I know that most teachers charge exorbitantly for private lessons (just for trivia, Bruce Lee charged 1000) some list it, some don't. That's just what I know. You can't really blame me for thinking that way.

It may be possible to join a study group, or get together with a small group in a park, backyard, garage, etc.

That's what I wanted to do. I know a handful of like minded people and I just listed in detail exactly why this failed. People are either unreliable, or just don't care, because they are happy with their classes. Why would they want to train with me? They don't see any benefits of training with me. I don't blame them. I've never had a formal teacher, or a formal class, so what do I really know?

 

[jks9199]

There's no point in that if I can't get out there and come back. That was my reasoning and it's a good reason. I'm a usually down to business kind of guy and not very social. Of course, if I see things are not going to work out according to what's available (such as comparing schedules, distance, fees etc) then I come to a logical conclusion that it won't work out.

I'm used to doing business with an established set of rules. I had no idea I could talk to these teachers and work things out. It's not logical to me because why would they go out of their way to train me, 1 person, when they can train a group of people that does fit with what they require?

Had you simply contacted them and said "I live here... I'd love to train, but if I get there, I can't get home", they might have done anything from tell you about their friend who has a club/class right around the corner from you, to tell you that they have a student who lives on your block and can give you a ride home... But if you simply look at a Google map, and go "nope, too far...", you'll never get anywhere. Instead, you chose for more than a year to rely on sources that can't offer you direct correction and guidance (did you even ask any of them if they knew someone in your area?)...

Honestly, I have to wonder if the real issue is that if you actually train with a real, live instructor, they might tell you that you're doing things wrong.

About me complaining that nobody wants to 'play'. That is more about the people i know, and my own community.

If I want to make it work through online lessons then why not? I was frustrated because my own friends, who I've been there for through everything, fail to be there for me when I need them? Is it so freaking hard to throw a full speed jab, cross, hook and uppercut? A lot of my friends can, and some are trained to do it.

One of my friends studies Jeet Kune Do (Jun Fan, not concepts) and he lives a mere 10 minutes away and he couldn't even be bothered to come by when we made an arrangement to come. He has been taught Chi Sao and other things from WC, so what could've been an excellent training opportunity for both of us, isn't, because people expect things out of me, but I can't receive in return.

Then why not train WITH him rather than try get him to train you? If he was my student, and asked me, I'd have told him not to work with you unless he was ready to teach -- and you were ready to learn. Doesn't sound like either condition is met...

Another of my brother's friends, we made an arrangement to start learning together. I told him about what was going on, and he wanted to learn too, but he wasn't serious enough. He did not come on the days we arranged and then one day pops up and he's like, aren't we supposed to train? I'm like, what? You can't just pop up randomly, and skip the days we talked about and expect to train.

Then there's my brother, he just doesn't want to do it. He's helped me at times so that I became familiar with the Lap Sao drill, swinging gate, etc and other things but like I said, he doesn't want to do it so every time I ask him he's off playing games or with other people.

Everybody else plays video games (Super Street Fighter 4) so outside of that hobby, they have work, family, etc and don't have time for MA. So you can see that I feel so isolated and alone. No schools that I've looked up, that I can get to, and nobody that I know that will work with me so I can put this into practice.

I can only look up the places that are in the phone book and Google Maps, etc so what I saw is what I used to make my assessment. There is nothing "wrong" with what I did at all.

Are you freakin' 12 or something? Your friends all play video games, a few train in different things but don't honor commitments and won't train with you, transportation problems (why would you turn down an offer of a bike if yours is broken? Even just as a loaner until you can fix your own?)... And you're awful defensive.

There's nothing wrong with what you did. Where I feel you have a problem is that you're locking in on all the "cannots" instead of figuring out how to make them work. Nor did you take the simple step of making a phone call and seeing what one of them might tell you about your options...

 

[jks9199]

I also keep emphasizing that finances are not good right now. Sure, I can cough up the 60 bucks for the fee. The bus ride is pretty damned expensive. Coughing up this money also means that I have to work alongside having carpal tunnel. If I pay for the classes and bus rides, I sacrifice my health by not allowing it to heal.

Not only that, but making 102 (bus + fee) is also a long stretch b/c of other bills that get in the way. I already had to quit working to regain the strength in my hands and wrists. None of your suggestions work because they don't fit in with *my* life. You don't know my situation.

You know what? It sounds like you've got a lot more to worry about in your life than training in martial arts. Maybe rather than creating your own curriculum, or trying to find somewhere to train, you need to instead focus on employment and general health first? If you've been so badly impaired that you had to stop work to regain strength, you probably shouldn't be inflicting new damage which is virtually certain in training.

I'm not worried about the teacher saying no. Like I said, I'm down to business. I know that most teachers charge exorbitantly for private lessons (just for trivia, Bruce Lee charged 1000) some list it, some don't. That's just what I know. You can't really blame me for thinking that way.

I don't charge my students anything for private lessons. I know I'm not the only one... You just have to be a member of the club, and attend class regularly.

 

[coffeerox]

jks, might as well stop replying cause I'm ignoring you from here on out. Welcome to coffee's infamous ignore list.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

You don't like what folks are telling you. Too bad.

I found dozens of possibilities on Google, you however have to make phone calls, send emails etc.

I'm seeing you list alot of excuses. If you were serious, you'd find solutions. You've been given enough solid advice. Yes, they don't know your case. Well, you don't know theirs. Folks here have beaten pretty much the same obstacles you face...lack of money, lack of transportation, lack of nearby possibilities, etc.

We aren't going to do the contacts for you.

 

[coffeerox]

Another thing to keep in mind., the sub-systems of WC you've been looking at are not entirely compatible. Just like different ryu of karate, the different branches of WC vary in many important ways. It won't help you to study a chop-suey mix when you are just starting out.

Yep I'm well aware of that. I understand that from outside looking in, it looks like 'chop-suey'. Heck I feel that way about Jeet Kune Do concepts and Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do.

I might not know all the differences between the systems, but I do recognize (and study) the differences. For example, William Cheung's Wu Sao covers the face rather than the traditional mid level in his SNT form.

• Michael Wong's dummy form uses two vertical closed fist strikes rather than two open palm strikes.
• William Cheung's dummy form includes footwork not found in others.
• Wong Shun Leung's dummy form has 138 moves instead of traditional 116
• There are mainland China forms that performs a strike with a Fook Sao (I've seen Michael W. do this too) at the end of the movement.
• Michael Wong's system prefers a neutral, boxing like stance rather than lead leg, man/wu sao
• Another of difference of MW's system, he prefers hard powerful strikes to disable an opponent in as few hits as possible. He teaches and emphasizes limb destruction when possible.

It's like Bruce Lee said in his Tao of Jeet Kune Do. When he was young, a punch was a punch, and kick was a kick. When he learned a system, a punch was no longer a punch, and a kick was no longer just a kick. Once he became proficient in that system, a punch was a punch and kick was a kick.

 

[coffeerox]

I constantly feel like I have to keep defending myself here when people could simply read what I have to say.

You don't like what folks are telling you. Too bad.

It's not like I have a problem with what people are telling me. In fact I've found posts in here informative as a matter of fact. Look at jks's first paragraph, he talks about "contact" and I emphasize that I cancelled a 3 dollar phone. He made this post after I made mine, which showed me he didn't read squat.

jks and why I ignored him is because he has a crappy attitude that I've found across many many forums. Instead of being helpful, he consistently attacks me and finds new ways to attack me. I'm not an idiot, I've been all around the block.

I found dozens of possibilities on Google, you however have to make phone calls, send emails etc.

I found those same possibilities. In fact, in the link that you posted, showed exactly what I told you in POST NUMBER ONE. There was 1 school listed in Phoenix that is two hours away, and everything else in the surrounding areas outside of Phoenix.

If you look closer, those possibilities start narrowing down. There's the Kwok school, the Tempe, Scottsdale school, a home ran school in Anthem, AZ (but is listed as Phoenix). It goes that way until Page 3 which is actually this thread LMAO! I get paid to do searches so I'm well aware of how far those results go.

I've found one new possible result and it's at a Karate school. I have to call and/or email the teacher there. Other than that, I've been as through as I can be in my search.

 

[Poor Uke]

Crazy thing this. I have two WC schools within walking distance one of whic is rubbish bui the other is very very good but do I go there any more? Not really I spend 2 hours travelling each way twice a week to get to an Arnis school

Good luck Coffee hope you find something you can sink your teeth into.