Quitting Martial Arts

[lostinseattle]

So I had a long talk this afternoon with an old friend that I used to train with back in the '80s. He was teaching then and a bit in the early '90s he had a school, but he closed it.

He said that he closed his school because he saw a disturbing trend which was the watering down of martial arts along with a trend towards teaching just for making money, and he said what he found was the students SUPPORTED this watering down because they didn't want to deal with sparring/combat and self defense techniques.

He said new students would come in with their parents and were more interested in forms for tournaments and 'character building' rather than actually learning a martial art for self defense.

In addition, he said they couldn't tell the difference between what he was teaching, which was more self defense oriented, and something that was watered down and didn't have a lot of practical applications.

So rather than trying to advertise and compete with watered down TKD and karate, he quit teaching.

Basically his comments support what I've come across the past 15 years or so which is a gradual watering down of martial arts until it doesn't seem what people are teaching out there is really martial arts anymore, but rather just something really bad.

So that's it. I formally retire from MA. I've had it.

 

[terryl965]

Ok This makes no sense to me, Martial Arts is a journey for yourself, so what does it matter what other folks are doing if you feel like other are watering down there program train on your own start up atraining club, just because of some other people you quit, what type of response is this from someone that does not like water down program. Stand up and fight to get the word out there to those that want true enlightment, I see it get a little rough and you walk away.

Now for real does it matter what I just said No so why does it bother you about other people your training is for you and there make me feel good training is for them.

 

[Phoenix44]

People train in the martial arts for all different kinds of reasons: self-defense, fitness, discipline, competition, spirituality, even just to meet people. If you look hard enough, you find a school with the emphasis you are interested in.

Sorry you're quitting.

 

[Kacey]

I train for myself; I teach because I enjoy it (and I certainly don't make enough money to matter; I teach at a Y). What you do is your choice; train or not - but don't let other people decide for you. Each person is an individual, and makes individual choices... or free will has been subsumed by the will of the masses.

 

[flashlock]

Yes, quit what you were doing, but you should look at Hock Hockheim, Paul Vunak, and BJJ / Muy Thai if you want to focus on self-defense without 12 year olds doing forms (usually poorly).

 

[Blindside]

Buh-bye. Maybe at some point you will learn to empty your cup.

 

[stickarts]

I have faced many disappointments and discouraging times over the years. I have found that keeping my own personal connection with the martial arts intact is what has kept me going. Don't let anyone else mess with your personal connection!

 

[Lisa]

Basically his comments support what I've come across the past 15 years or so which is a gradual watering down of martial arts until it doesn't seem what people are teaching out there is really martial arts anymore, but rather just something really bad.

So that's it. I formally retire from MA. I've had it.

This is a sad statement, it truly is. I am sorry that you have come to this conclusion. I only wish you would have had the desire to fight against what you see as a trend and work towards fixing the problem you see as opposed to giving in and walking away.

Ok This makes no sense to me, Martial Arts is a journey for yourself, so what does it matter what other folks are doing if you feel like other are watering down there program train on your own start up atraining club, just because of some other people you quit, what type of response is this from someone that does not like water down program. Stand up and fight to get the word out there to those that want true enlightment, I see it get a little rough and you walk away.

Now for real does it matter what I just said No so why does it bother you about other people your training is for you and there make me feel good training is for them.

Well said.

Yes, quit what you were doing, but you should look at Hock Hockheim, Paul Vunak, and BJJ / Muy Thai if you want to focus on self-defense without 12 year olds doing forms (usually poorly).

Now, before we start an arguement as to the whole Art vs. Art thingy, I am going to formally ask that no one goes down that road...please. We have had enough of that lately on this board and it gets no where except suspensions, Infractions and bad feelings.

As to the comment of 12 year olds doing forms poorly. Well, they may do them poorly but I would rather have a dozen 12 year olds doing something poorly, working on getting better and perfecting their forms then one adult who gives up and walks away. Martial Arts is about striving for yourself and working hard and building self esteem. If a 12 year old does this by coming to class and working his butt off, I am all for it.

 

[tellner]

Figure out what you're interested in. Then look around and find somewhere to learn it. Seattle is chock full of martial arts schools of all sorts. If you can't find what you're looking for in one place it will almost certainly be in another. Some teachers only take adults. Some do combatives. Others are sports oriented. Some specialize in police defensive tactics. Some in cultural traditions.

 

[Laurentkd]

Why would he close his school because there are other schools out there that don't teach what he teaches? Isn't that the perfect reason to stay open? If they aren't teaching the same things then they won't attract the same students, and so aren't competition. That would be like a ballet school closing because there are lots of tap dance schools around it. Different people are looking for different things, and those people will come to you if you are what they are looking for. Now I guess if your teaching style doesn't bring in any students and you are forced to close your doors that is another story (I of course have no clue if this was the case or not) But I don't think surrounding businesses should be the blame for that either. If he feels (right or wrongly) that the martial arts are becoming watered down I would think he would feel a responsibility to keep his doors open (assuming he has students to teach of course). Or even teach non-commercially on the side. Either way I don't see any of this as a reason to quit martial arts.

Maybe there is more to the story or something?

 

[grydth]

So I had a long talk this afternoon with an old friend that I used to train with back in the '80s. He was teaching then and a bit in the early '90s he had a school, but he closed it.

He said that he closed his school because he saw a disturbing trend which was the watering down of martial arts along with a trend towards teaching just for making money, and he said what he found was the students SUPPORTED this watering down because they didn't want to deal with sparring/combat and self defense techniques.

He said new students would come in with their parents and were more interested in forms for tournaments and 'character building' rather than actually learning a martial art for self defense.

In addition, he said they couldn't tell the difference between what he was teaching, which was more self defense oriented, and something that was watered down and didn't have a lot of practical applications.

So rather than trying to advertise and compete with watered down TKD and karate, he quit teaching.

Basically his comments support what I've come across the past 15 years or so which is a gradual watering down of martial arts until it doesn't seem what people are teaching out there is really martial arts anymore, but rather just something really bad.

So that's it. I formally retire from MA. I've had it.

Okay, it is not up to me to make life decisions for you; you have every right to do whatsoever you want for any reason - or none at all.

The rationale you've given, however, is very odd.

It seems you guys are quitting because of the questionable practices of others' ? Why does what a mcdojo is doing have any bearing on what you practice or teach?

It would seem a plague of shallow schools would create a demand for a dojo of substance... and if the economic environment is not conducive to teaching, why would you give up practicing? Are you only doing it for the money?

Do what you wish. But you owe it to yourself - not to me or anybody here - to consider this more carefully.

 

[Blindside]

Figure out what you're interested in. Then look around and find somewhere to learn it. Seattle is chock full of martial arts schools of all sorts. If you can't find what you're looking for in one place it will almost certainly be in another. Some teachers only take adults. Some do combatives. Others are sports oriented. Some specialize in police defensive tactics. Some in cultural traditions.

He isn't looking for a teacher, take a look at some of his posts:
http://72.36.239.214/forum/showthread.php?p=734139#post734139

 

[Flatlander]

I can certainly understand making the choice to close a school for economic reasons. That makes perfect sense. If teaching isn't a viable way of producing income, then by all means, cut the costs. However, it seems to me that to quit Martial Arts all together because you're disturbed by this 'watering down' trend only exacerbates the problem. It certainly doesn't do anything to help the issue, anyway. Unless, of course, you're one of the ones 'watering things down', which I'll assume that you're not.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Sorry you chose that path and I hope you have success and luck with whatever you do.

 

[Tames D]

In life, we do what we gotta do. I choose to do what's right for me regardless of what other's are doing.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

Buh-bye. Maybe at some point you will learn to empty your cup.

Well put. I agree.

AoG

 

[IcemanSK]

I'm sorry to hear that you've chosen not to teach something that, at one point you loved, because other folks who also teach don't do it well. I wonder what would happen if doctors, school teachers & firefighters stopped doing those jobs because of others who didn't do it well. One thing's for sure, the bar wouldn't be set any higher for the next generations. Because there wouldn't be anyone else to show them a better way.

Congratulations. You just have given a victory to anyone who wants to put $$ over the Art & people who were unlucky enough to walk through their doors. And the said part is, they didn't have to do a thing. Cuz, in your town, there's no one else to say anything different.

I get your frustration. Heck, I share it. Kids who's folks spent tons of money for very little walk into my school all the time. They're even from my art! I love the opportunity to teach them better than they were taught before. To set the bar higher & to make their training actually mean something to them. To be honest, I really don't care what Master X down the street teaches. It as no effect on the way I teach my students my art. If he/she is a bad teacher, his students will come see me at some point.

I wish you the best in your search for a better way.

 

[MBuzzy]

Personal Opinion: To each his own. Every person trains for different reasons. I am glad to see anyone involved in MA no matter what their reasoning. I don't feel that others affect me though.
Partially, I feel that instructors should be held responsible for teaching "bad" MA. But on the other hand, if that is what you are looking for, it is good that there is someone out there willing to help you.

 

[Shaderon]

If you feel so strongly that martial arts is about fighting and self defence why are you giving up?

You aren't practising self defence or fighting in doing so, you are practising yielding to the opposition. Do you not have that warrior spirit?

So others are teaching what you see as wrong or ill informed, if all of us that faced this gave up, then the people that spread the word in a different way to you would just win, there would be no one to speak our side, no one to teach our way.

If you do give up, make sure you are doing it for the right reasons and not because you are tired of fighting a battle.

 

[Drac]

Yes, quit what you were doing, but you should look at Hock Hockheim, Paul Vunak, and BJJ / Muy Thai if you want to focus on self-defense without 12 year olds doing forms (usually poorly).

Yes, flashlock is correct about Hock, I have not been privledged to train with Vunak..Attended a Police Judo class put on by Hock..Serious stuff as is ALL his training...