Question about joining a dojo

[Leomhann]

Currently I am enrolled in Shaolin Kung Fu (which I am learning remarkably fast). I don't entirely feel fulfilled with this type of training, however, I do enjoy the art in and of itself. I recently found a Togakure ryu near my home , which captured my interest when I started reading about Hatsumi sensei and his methods of teaching. Not only do the spiritual aspects appeal to me, but the principles and techniques of the art itself. So my question is (I'm pretty sure I know the answer but I'll ask anyways for affirmation.) Should I dual train with Togakure Taijutsu and Shaolin (since I know physically and mentally I can handle it) or should I choose one of the other. I have also found recently Richard van Donk's home video lessons. Granted I've read a good few conflicting reviews anywhere from people saying how horrible an idea it is to people saying how good it is. I do see how it can be a good idea to get a start and use it to reference from time to time if, you find yourself strapped for said time. Despite it being so expensive. I know nothing can compare to a face to face lesson in terms of quality of instruction. Which leads me to ask for advice. Any offered will be appreciated.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Personally I would suggest studying one until you at least reach Black Belt before studying a different one.
The techniques of one may interfere with your properly learning the other

 

[Leomhann]

That is what I'm leaning towards also.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I am not saying that experience in one will necessarily hurt you in the other but you must have that experience over time or things get clouded when practicing. Pick one study and learn until you have that experience or you decide it is not giving you what you want. If you decide you are not satisfied after studying for a period of time it is then you must decide if you wish to switch.
Just my thoughts but I hope they help

 

[Blindside]

I know nothing can compare to a face to face lesson in terms of quality of instruction. Which leads me to ask for advice. Any offered will be appreciated.

I would go with even moderately capable instruction by a live instructor over the best video on the planet. At the very least, you can't learn a MA by beating up imaginary people, you need to work with someone.

Lamont

 

[Leomhann]

They do, it always helps to hear it from someone else when your own mind doesn't give clear signals. I'm no rookie at the martial arts, I've just never come across a situation where there are 2 traditional schools so close together. But I do agree, it is a good idea to focus on one to make sure you get the full benefit and understanding before deciding.

 

[Kreth]

Someone referring to what they teach as Togakure Taijutsu raises a red flag for me... :idunno:

 

[Leomhann]

Someone referring to what they teach as Togakure Taijutsu raises a red flag for me... :idunno:

Thats what I'm calling it for the moment because I've heard it referred to under so many names in Hatumi sensei's books, I'm not entirely sure what the proper name is.

 

[kaizasosei]

i'd say to learn as much as you can, but what others have already stated makes a good point. otherwise, you may just end up with mad skills but be all alone, in which case, noone will recognize your skills.

it's up to you. if you have the time, energy or curious desire or strength to be without rank, go to...

btw, the art of Hatsumisensei is called Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu and incorporates 9 ryu.

j

 

[Leomhann]

i'd say to learn as much as you can, but what others have already stated makes a good point. otherwise, you may just end up with mad skills but be all alone, in which case, noone will recognize your skills.

it's up to you. if you have the time, energy or curious desire or strength to be without rank, go to...

btw, the art of Hatsumisensei is called Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu and incorporates 9 ryu.

j

Ah, thanks, I'll have to remember that. As for people recognizing my skill, I'm not so concerned about that as me recognizing my own. I've gone my entire life with no one paying half a mind to what I can or can't do.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Personally I would suggest studying one until you at least reach Black Belt before studying a different one.
The techniques of one may interfere with your properly learning the other

Does Shaolin Kung Fu have Black Belt? Just jerking your chain. I agree with the fundamentals of your advice.

 

[kaizasosei]

Ah, thanks, I'll have to remember that. As for people recognizing my skill, I'm not so concerned about that as me recognizing my own. I've gone my entire life with no one paying half a mind to what I can or can't do.

i can most definately respect that. i wonder though if your opinion(stance on rank) changes after 8 or 9 years..?

i do think that having rank can save you alot of hassle. but in essence, you are most definately right. why take the easy way, huh.

j

 

[Leomhann]

i can most definately respect that. i wonder though if your opinion(stance on rank) changes after 8 or 9 years..?

i do think that having rank can save you alot of hassle. but in essence, you are most definately right. why take the easy way, huh.

j

More or less I've been in marital arts for 15 years. Though 11 of that has been free lance and trying to create my own way. Traditionally speaking I only have 4 years total of formal training. Since just recently there have been 2 traditional schools open nearby, I want to see what I can learn from them. There really is no easy road in martial arts, which is half the fun.

 

[kaizasosei]

yeah, i see your point. i think it also depends on how your community(ies) handle(s the issue of rank.



;

 

[Leomhann]

Good point.

 

[Flying Crane]

what kind of Shaolin are you studying, for how long have you studied, how seriously have you pursued this particular study, and what about it makes you feel not completely satisfied?

 

[mizogomo]

bujinkan is different urban ninja.........

bujinkan budo taijutsu

 

[JBP]

I think everyone else has pretty much said it as well as I would...

I would be very suspicious of a Dojo calling themselves a Togakure Ryu school. Only because it is one of the 9 ryu that Hatsumi Sensei is Soke of. Even if you just mistakenly called it that and it is a Bujinkan Dojo, I would still scrutinize it heavily.

Many Bujinkan Dojo's have little or no standards at all when it comes to rank. You should thoroughly investigate any Dojo you are considering joining. There is a wide range of quality. Look for realism (effectiveness and honesty), authenticity (tradition and lineage), and instructor quality (experience, integrity and communication).

As far as mixing in Kung fu, I think there isn't a problem with that so long as you do things one at a time. Otherwise you could get overwhlemed IMHO.

Hope any of that helps!

 

[HeisaaReborn]

btw, the art of Hatsumisensei is called Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu and incorporates 9 ryu.

You are only partially right. Yes this is one of the arts that Hatsumisensei teaches shich he holds the sokeship meiko for. However Hatsumisensei only holds the meikogeiden for one of 9 Ryus (which should always be capitalized for respect) which you do have correct in your post. Many practicioners will tell you flat out that practicioners of Bujikan will not learn all skills/gates of any of the Ryus as it is a hybrid system. Hatsumisensei teaches only his senior students the full ninjutsu system. I find it personally sad that there are many students out there that don't even seem to know what I mean by the gates and skills.

Budo,

 

[Chris Parker]

You are only partially right. Yes this is one of the arts that Hatsumisensei teaches shich he holds the sokeship meiko for. However Hatsumisensei only holds the meikogeiden for one of 9 Ryus (which should always be capitalized for respect) which you do have correct in your post. Many practicioners will tell you flat out that practicioners of Bujikan will not learn all skills/gates of any of the Ryus as it is a hybrid system. Hatsumisensei teaches only his senior students the full ninjutsu system. I find it personally sad that there are many students out there that don't even seem to know what I mean by the gates and skills.

Budo,

Okay, this is an old thread, I know, but...

As you are making a point about the correct way of presenting certain words (ryu, in this case), we might as well get a couple of things straight. The term for full trasmission, or msatership is Menkyo Kaiden, not "meiko" or "meikogeiden" as you commonly use. Not even sure if that is a word at all... And I have never encountered such a term as sokeship menkyo, as soke is generally considered to be above the menkyo ranking system. However, as menkyo simply means licence, you could look at the scrolls as being such, maybe?

The techniques of a particular ryu are known as kata, which becomes gata when placed after certain phonetic sounds, I believe you are writing "gate" and "gates" in this place? I would also point out that Japanese doesn't feature pluralisation the way English does, so it is one kata, or many kata, not katas (or, as you wrote, "gates").

As for capitalisation of terms, you stated that ryu "should always be capitalised, for respect", gotta disagree here. When used as a proper name, in a part of a school, then yes, by all means, capitalise it (eg. Togakure Ryu, Takagi Yoshin Ryu, Katori Shinto Ryu). But when used, as it was, simply as a word, then no. By the same token, we use the word school without capitalising ("Did you have a good day at school today?"), but when naming a school, that changes ("Where do you study?" "I go to Such-and-such High school"). Make sense?

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "Yes this is one of the arts that Hatsumi Sensei teaches which he holds the sokeship menkyo for. However Hatsumi Sensei only holds the menkyo kaiden for one of 9 Ryus..." Hatsumi Sensei is Soke of 9 separate systems, which he chooses to teach as an amalgamated system based on the teachings of each different ryu-ha, while focussing on one in particular from time to time. And while I'm on this part, the correct title is not Hatsumisensei, as it is not an extension of his name, but Hatsumi Sensei (2 seperate words). And I'm not sure where you get your information about what Hatsumi teaches "only his senior students", nor why you would feel it is "sad" that not all students of the Bujinkan (might be a typo, but I've seen it in a few of your posts - BujiNkan, not Bujikan) know all the kata. There are many schools which are so large that the students don't know all the techniques for them, either, in fact, in many classical systems, you may not learn the actual scroll techniques until quite a way down the path.