Q an A

[jazkiljok]

Besides yourself obviously, what other well known Senior and currently high ranking American Kenpoists were still studying consistently with Mr. Parker towards the end of his life?

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by lodestone
I don't suppose you can recall the situation.

Of course I recall the situation! He was crossing over from the Tracy system and did not know all of Ed Parkers details on the system like the rest of us that are always learning. If you are asking did he know the Ed Parker System or not well all I can say is that he knew it as well as HE knew it, not like Ed Parker knew it or anyone else. I don't know all of what he learned only what I personally debated with him on.

Originally posted by lodestone
I guess this whole thing makes me question the validity of my kenpo.

I understand your position. You learned what he taught you, whatever that was. Comparing with other credible Ed Parker Students of the same era, will reveal just how close he taught or didn't teach to what others learned from Ed Parker.

Originally posted by lodestone
Is what I learned not valid EPAK?

I don't know..... is it? I would have to look at what you have learned to tell. If the principles are present, the skill, quality of movement, and knowledge is there, then it would be deemed good Kenpo to me I would reason. What I do know is that you learned Kenpo from one... Jim Mitchell, what all he taught you .... who knows?

Originally posted by lodestone
The arrangement of the system I originally learned was different from any other kenpo schools other than those influenced by Jim Mitchell.

Ok, that must tell you something then. Even if it is the same material, HE rearranged it to suit himself and/or his group.

Originally posted by lodestone
In Mr. Mitchell's defense, the kenpo I have learned is amazingly accurate, i.e. it matches, or varies only slightly, what I see on the rest of the Net.

I am not attacking Mitchell, I am only answering your questions. If you know the answers then why ask. Earlier you stated that, and I quote "the system I originally learned was different from any other kenpo schools other than those influenced by Jim Mitchell" unquote.

You must be trying to trick me....... :erg: Well, it didn't work ..... did it......:rofl:

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by jazkiljok
Besides yourself obviously, what other well known Senior and currently high ranking American Kenpoists were still studying consistently with Mr. Parker towards the end of his life?

I am not aware of "ALL" that were stydying with Mr. Parker at the time of his death but some of them were.......
Skip Hancock
Paul Mills
Brian Duffy
Tom Kelly
Joe Palanzo
Bryan Hawkins
Jeff Speakman
Barbara Hale
Ron Chape'l
Gilbert Velez
Doreen Cogliandro
Flores Brothers
and I'm sure I left off others, its late.

:asian:

 

[lodestone]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



I understand your position. You learned what he taught you, whatever that was. Comparing with other credible Ed Parker Students of the same era, will reveal just how close he taught or didn't teach to what others learned from Ed Parker.



I don't know..... is it? I would have to look at what you have learned to tell. If the principles are present, the skill, quality of movement, and knowledge is there, then it would be deemed good Kenpo to me I would reason. What I do know is that you learned Kenpo from one... Jim Mitchell, what all he taught you .... who knows?



Ok, that must tell you something then. Even if it is the same material, HE rearranged it to suit himself and/or his group.


I am not attacking Mitchell, I am only answering your questions. If you know the answers then why ask. Earlier you stated that, and I quote "the system I originally learned was different from any other kenpo schools other than those influenced by Jim Mitchell" unquote.


You must be trying to trick me....... :erg: Well, it didn't work ..... did it......:rofl:

I didn't know the answers! The difference I was refering to was in the order of the techniques. I still received excellent instruction in the concepts and theories of Parker Kenpo. Just his point of view, I suppose, on the ordering of the techniques.

I am truly sorry if my comments or questions came across as inflamatory. I assure you, my intentions were innocuous. I think you have been extraordinarily helpful and forthcoming. Thank you.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by lodestone
The difference I was referring to was in the order of the techniques.

Ahhhhh, now how did I miss that. Darn...... sorry.

Originally posted by lodestone
I still received excellent instruction in the concepts and theories of Parker Kenpo.

Well, I certainly hope so! There is always some good in everything, besides there is soooooooo much in print now that you can pick up much just from Mr. Parkers Books (which by the way is the main source of many Instructors that never met Mr. Parker or trained with any of his personal students).

Originally posted by lodestone
Just his point of view, I suppose, on the ordering of the techniques.

Since he started his own organization, I'm sure he rearranged the techniques to fit his own opinion on just "where" they should be (which in itself, would not hamper the system at all). Nearly every person that has started their own association has done this from their perspectives and personal "era" of Kenpo knowledge.

Many have "deleted" specific techniques, forms, sets, drills, sayings, pledges, etc. to suit their own needs (personally I feel that all the material was developed for a purpose and not to have it available is decreasing the overall "profile" of the systems knowledge base).

Originally posted by lodestone
I am truly sorry if my comments or questions came across as inflammatory. I assure you, my intentions were innocuous. I think you have been extraordinarily helpful and forthcoming. Thank you.

No, need to apologize, I didn't take it personally, thus the funny faces. I know you were just interested in a different opinion. I try to keep the history as close to reality as possible. I find that with time, some stories get diluted or warped .....LOL...... so the best way of retaining the truth is to talk about it to many.

Thanks for your questions!
:asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

I had one of Mr. Mitchell's 3rd Degree Black's studying with me in the early 90's. He knew the techniques, but they were devoid of the Principles, Concepts, and Theories ... or maybe he was just up on them.

Boy, but could he fight!!!!

-Michael
Kenpo-Texas.com

 

[lodestone]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
I had one of Mr. Mitchell's 3rd Degree Black's studying with me in the early 90's. He knew the techniques, but they were devoid of the Principles, Concepts, and Theories ... or maybe he was just up on them.

Boy, but could he fight!!!!

-Michael
Kenpo-Texas.com

So, he was lacking an understanding of concepts like zone of sanctuary, strong-line weak-line, reverse marriage of gravity, angle of incidence, etc.?

It blows my mind to think someone could learn the techniques without understanding the concepts!

That's like not knowing the names of basics, as far as I'm concerned!!

.

 

[Michael Billings]

:rofl:
Whoops, I said:

I had one of Mr. Mitchell's 3rd Degree Black's studying with me in the early 90's. He knew the techniques, but they were devoid of the Principles, Concepts, and Theories ... or maybe he was just up on them.

I obviously meant ...maybe he was just NOT up on them, meaning the Principles, Concepts and Theories of EPAK.

You would be surprised at the number of Kenpoist out there who learned from the Big Red Book or who were not "close to the source" as Mr. Parker's Kenpo evolved. They may use words like "Torque" or "Marriage of Gravity" without much more understanding than that. Lots of room for variation out there. But hopefully as the number of practitioners increases, the quality and quantity of information increases (yes, I know this is wishful thinking on my part, but we can always hope.)

-Michael
Kenpo-Texas.com

 

[molson]

I am making the switch to EPAK from another blended system, and I for one realize my weakness on priciples and concepts. But it is refreshing to learn them.


Jeff Nelson

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by molson
I am making the switch to EPAK from another blended system, and I for one realize my weakness on priciples and concepts. But it is refreshing to learn them. Jeff Nelson

Yes, they add a bit of truism or understanding with a slight touch of reality to the system somehow. I know when I started on them it was a bright sunny day.

:asian:

 

[molson]

I never realized how much I enjoyed yellow and orange techniques. I guess your never too old to learn or as they say, you can teach and old dog new tricks.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by molson
I never realized how much I enjoyed yellow and orange techniques. I guess your never too old to learn or as they say, you can teach and old dog new tricks.

You will always be a "student of Kenpo"......... regardless of who, where or what you already know or have accomplished.

:asian:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
You will always be a "student of Kenpo"......... regardless of who, where or what you already know or have accomplished.

:asian:

Ok student, That means it's your turn to clean the bathroom!

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by RCastillo
Ok student, That means it's your turn to clean the bathroom!

Just because we are students, doesn't mean we do away with the rank system "totally"!!! Now YOU go grab your toothbrush!
....... LOL.

:rofl:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Just because we are students, doesn't mean we do away with the rank system "totally"!!! Now YOU go grab your toothbrush!
....... LOL.

:rofl:

It broke..............

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by RCastillo
It broke..............

Likely story.

 

[ob2c]

I understand that SGM Parker was a very well rounded martial artist (obviously!). I'm curious as to what styles he studied formally, as well as others he may have worked with that influenced him.

Also I've heard, and believe, that a large part of Mr. Parkers genious was in extracting principles, cataloging them, and teaching their application in a manner relevant to our western mindset. Could you as a senior Kenpoist who studied with Mr. Parker expound on that? Possibly give some insights into the way his mind worked? I know that is asking a lot. But I'd be interested in anything you have to say on this.

And, thank you, sir, for your time and an interesting and informative thread!

 

[Michael Billings]

Create? Discover? Refine? Reanalyze? Discard? Reinforce?

-Michael

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by ob2c
I understand that SGM Parker was a very well rounded martial artist (obviously!). I'm curious as to what styles he studied formally, as well as others he may have worked with that influenced him.

He played sports (football) boxed, did judo, and toyed with several different forms of the martial arts thru watching or with freinds that were involved (taekwondo, hapkido, kali, anris, etc.). Masa Oyama, Ohsima, James Lee, Ark Wong, Bruce Lee, Lau Boon sp?, and many, many others he would observe and compair their movements.

Originally posted by ob2c
A large part of Mr. Parkers genious was in extracting principles, cataloging them, and teaching their application in a manner relevant to our western mindset. Could you as a senior Kenpoist who studied with Mr. Parker expound on that? Possibly give some insights into the way his mind worked?

Well, he was an educated man with an inquisitive mind. He loved to analyize what he was studying and catagorize for easy reference what he found. Since the Kenpo was his topic and playground, this is what and where he played.... and inserted all his skills and attention to develop what he gave us to continue with.

Originally posted by ob2c
And, thank you, sir, for your time and an interesting and informative thread!

Thank You...... I'm glad you are enjoying it. Many have some good comments.

:asian:

 

[ob2c]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
Create? Discover? Refine? Reanalyze? Discard? Reinforce?

All that, and probably more!

When I work out with other stylists, I can see a lot of the principles at work in what they do. But AK often does it better. So those principles woud possibly have been discovered, pulled out, reanalized, and subsumed under Mr. Parkers methodology. Excess movement would have been discarded. Then techniques created to teach and reinforce the principles.



Gd7, thanks for the reply, and the insight into Mr. Parkers' personality.