Q an A

In the past I've had discussions with Seniors about the system and it seems to me that the first pass through the system is an opportunity to develop a base understanding of the base concept, but the meat and potatoes come during the 2,3 & 4 pass through the system. Both you and Doc Chape'l seem to do the same thing in this regard. Each time peeling back another layer to the system (or adding depending on how you look at it). Could you please discribe those layers or phases of the system that you teach? and how you would characterize each.

Thanks, jb:asian:
 
Originally posted by jbkenpo
Have you ever deliberately changed anything in a technique or form based on something you've found to be "more" logical. Kicking set is the obvious example, but I wondered if you had done it with any other parts of the material?
Click to expand...

hee hee......... Well, this is an excellent question. First off, I didn't change the Kicking Sets 4th wall, Mr. Parker did. My student did in fact discover a unique point that then in turn I brought to Mr. Parker for evaluation. He liked the point and promptly made the adjustment.

I for one don't like to "alter" the "BASE" system. For one I can always do that in the what if Phase or using the Kenpo Tool "Equation formula" to modify a movement for some reason. If I discovered a "serious" flaw that called for improvement, my protocol would be to contact several Seniors and run it by them for scrutiny. I don't want to make any snap alterations that may have long range implications that I possibly didn't see. So before I would personally change anything I would pass it across the board, (one good reason for a Senior Council among others).

:asian:
 
Originally posted by jbkenpo
In the past I've had discussions with Seniors about the system and it seems to me that the first pass through the system is an opportunity to develop a base understanding of the base concept, but the meat and potatoes come during the 2,3 & 4 pass through the system. Both you and Doc Chape'l seem to do the same thing in this regard. Each time peeling back another layer to the system (or adding depending on how you look at it). Could you please discribe those layers or phases of the system that you teach? and how you would characterize each.
Click to expand...

I can't speak for others but I myself utilize the 4 layers as different phases of maturity something I also refer to as (committing to "The Process") ......

1st Phase... would be the infant or foundational phase where the foundation and coordination is developed along with planting the seeds for later harvest.

2nd Phase... is the cultivation phase where you continually water and fertilize the crop introducing new components into the soil at as slow but steady pace all the while tending and weeding the growth .......

3rd Phase... is the near mature student that now has a good grasp on the material and the plant is producing fruit but is still in need of protection and knowledge to warn against the "bugs and weeds of life". Continual nurturing and more food and sun needed here to bring the plant to full maturity...... history, understanding where we came from - where we are - and a look into where we have yet to go............

4th Phase... The flight to freedom phase..... the foundation completed the vitamins and minerals all fell into place.... the plant is now mature and on his own..... he remembers his roots and yet is ready to explore new horizons... now at an advanced point of view and always on the look out for new and different points of view to reference his training with. Looking for innovative ways to improve what he learned and feels a sense of responsibility to pass on more than what he learned and with a higher degree of quality to keep the chain stronger not weaker. Till the new soil and recondition it for an even more beneficial and productive crop.. Forever seeking advanced knowledge.... forever the student.........

:asian:
 
Why the change from the eye poke to a palm heel after the outward handsword?

Are there any other techniques that were changed like this?


:asian:
 
Originally posted by Klondike93
Why the change from the eye poke to a palm heel after the outward handsword?
Click to expand...

Who said there was a change here?

Here is the way we do that section..............


FIVE SWORDS (Front right step through roundhouse punch)

..........
2. Immediately strike to the right side of your opponent's neck with a right outward handsword. (This action should help to nullify the Height, Width, and Depth Zones of your opponent.)
3. Pivot into a right forward bow (facing 12:00), as you execute


- a left five-finger thrust (palm down) to your opponent's eyes, --


and your right hand cocks at your right hip (fist clenched and palm up). (The effect of this poke should snap your opponent's head back and away from you.)
4. Having your opponent's head to move away from you, and his midsection to jut forward, take advantage of this anticipated response by (1) pivoting into a right neutral bow, (2) executing a right uppercut punch to your opponent's stomach, as (3) your left hand becomes a COCKING CHECK (guarding horizontally.........

:asian:
 
Originally posted by Goldendragon7


and your right hand cocks at your right hip (fist clenched and palm up)
Click to expand...

How come when I wrote that in one of my explanations I got 'Blah Blah you obviously don't do EPAK have you never even heard of point of origin' from Clyde?

Ian.
 
Originally posted by satans.barber

How come when I wrote that in one of my explanations I got 'Blah Blah you obviously don't do EPAK have you never even heard of point of origin' from Clyde?

Ian.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what you are talking about...... wrote what?

and yes, I DO DO EPAK, I learned directly from Ed Parker, did you?
LOL, and I knew of point of Origin befor Clyde was even in Kenpo.:) What has that got to do with the statement?

:asian:
 
Originally posted by Goldendragon7


I have no idea what you are talking about...... wrote what?
Click to expand...

Wrote what I quoted above:

"and your right hand cocks at your right hip (fist clenched and palm up)"

I was just saying, when I wrote that in one of my explanations Clyde seemed to think I was writing it down poorly and it couldn't possibly be EPAK, and nobody disagreed with him; yet it's the way the EPAK people are doing 5 Swords...

Just seems a little contradictory to me.

Ian.
 
Originally posted by satans.barber
Wrote what I quoted above:

"and your right hand cocks at your right hip (fist clenched and palm up)"

I was just saying, when I wrote that in one of my explanations Clyde seemed to think I was writing it down poorly and it couldn't possibly be EPAK, and nobody disagreed with him; yet it's the way the EPAK people are doing 5 Swords...

Just seems a little contradictory to me.
Click to expand...

First of all, What Clyde or any other Kenpo Individual says has nothing to do with what I personally do or do not do. If Clyde disagreed with whatever you were talking about, just because I nor anyone else came into the conversation does not mean that I agree or disagree (I didn't comment), that's all.

My response was to another individual about the fingers, but even so...... there are possibly different minor takes on 5 swords (in this case the specific technique we are talking about), execution. This is just my base application and explanation based upon Ed Parkers journals that I follow.

I would be more than happy to give you my opinion on what it is that you are doing if you would like ....... just ask a specific question, so we can be on the same page and start from ground 0.

:asian:
 
I asked the question about 5 swords because I learned differently.

I was taught it this, by 2 different instructors:

After the block do a right outward handsword; then a left palm heel to chin; right upset punch to solar plexus; left outward handsword to left jaw hinge; right downward handsword to back of neck.

I never knew about the finger strikes until I read about it and I had thought that Mr. Parker had changed it. My current instructor was talking about it and had said that he taught with the palm heel to avoid everyone poking eyes out. Just thought I'd get GD's take on it.
 
Many people change the techniques from time to time for different reasons............. all could still work effectively.....
:)

:asian:

that's the way I do it........;)
 
Like I told one of my students last night, now you have a variation in your arsenal.:cool:
 
Originally posted by Goldendragon7



First of all, What Clyde or any other Kenpo Individual says has nothing to do with what I personally do or do not do. If Clyde disagreed with whatever you were talking about, just because I nor anyone else came into the conversation does not mean that I agree or disagree (I didn't comment), that's all.

My response was to another individual about the fingers, but even so...... there are possibly different minor takes on 5 swords (in this case the specific technique we are talking about), execution. This is just my base application and explanation based upon Ed Parkers journals that I follow.

I would be more than happy to give you my opinion on what it is that you are doing if you would like ....... just ask a specific question, so we can be on the same page and start from ground 0.

:asian:
Click to expand...

I'm not disagreeing, I don't think I worded my grievence very well, never mind, doesn't matter anyway!

Forget I mentioned it.

Ian.
 
Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Many people change the techniques from time to time for different reasons............. all could still work effectively.....
:)

:asian:

that's the way I do it........;)
Click to expand...

Five swords was taught to me with a left thrusting heel palm to the chin. The reason for that was "because" in actual combat you may get a four finger poke to the forhead, or side of face or etc. it depends upon the reaction of the attacker. Now to keep from jamming fingers it was taught as the heel palm strike. Yet we can not forget the name of this technique Five Swords. I personally like the heel palm and trust it just a little bit more but there's nothing wrong with the original version:). This is just my take.
Jason Farnsworth
 
Originally posted by Goldendragon7

on your recent Black Belt promotion. Next step!!

Now I can hammer on you more since you are a higher rank!

:asian:
Click to expand...

Thank you Mr. C. that means a lot to me. I hope that I can just keep up with the questions back at me.:D Remember also I felt one of your not so hard punches and strikes :( :eek: I'm just a little guy you can't break me in half Heather might not want to talk to you any more.:D
Thanks again,
Jason Farnsworth
 
MR. C :


REGARDING THE PREVIOUS POSTS ON THE 5 SWORDS,
i'M A LITTLE SURPRISED THAT THERE IS A LACK OF USING
A VERTICAL 4 FINGER THRUST TO THE SOLAR PLEXUS ON THE
THIRD MOVE. 5 SWORDS...5 OPEN HAND STRIKES...
mY WEB OF KNOWLEDGE OVER THE YEARS HAS BECOME A
COBWEB OF SENILTY NOT ABLE TO DISCERN NEW IDEAS
FROM THE ANCIENT SCRIBES.
 
Originally posted by BKSB

MR. C :


REGARDING THE PREVIOUS POSTS ON THE 5 SWORDS,
i'M A LITTLE SURPRISED THAT THERE IS A LACK OF USING
A VERTICAL 4 FINGER THRUST TO THE SOLAR PLEXUS ON THE
THIRD MOVE. 5 SWORDS...5 OPEN HAND STRIKES...
mY WEB OF KNOWLEDGE OVER THE YEARS HAS BECOME A
COBWEB OF SENILTY NOT ABLE TO DISCERN NEW IDEAS
FROM THE ANCIENT SCRIBES.
Click to expand...

Please detail a little more..... Im not sure I understand you ........

:asian:
 
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