Psycholoy of fighting

[caped crusader]

self-defense isn't based on winning. It's based on survival. If I lose a fight by avoiding it, I've achieved my goal.

nothing cowardly about running away if attacked with a knife so i understand you to a point. Even with the "Do" of modern systems it is what it is , a fighting art. To avoid every confrontation and stand in front of your Dojo class and talk about "real self defence" is for me a false signal. Just not good. I am not talking about you Bill but how many so called experts really know? When i boxed i was trained by guys who were themselves real boxers at a respected standard in the military. I had the utmost respect for them. I still have and have contact with them.

 

[Dirty Dog]

nothing cowardly about running away if attacked with a knife so i understand you to a point. Even with the "Do" of modern systems it is what it is , a fighting art. To avoid every confrontation and stand in front of your Dojo class and talk about "real self defence" is for me a false signal. Just not good. I am not talking about you Bill but how many so called experts really know? When i boxed i was trained by guys who were themselves real boxers at a respected standard in the military. I had the utmost respect for them. I still have and have contact with them.

The more successful you are at self-defense, the less likely you are to ever be in a fight. Self-defense starts with situational awareness, avoidance, and deescalation. If you're good enough at those, you won't have to start swinging.

 

[caped crusader]

The more successful you are at self-defense, the less likely you are to ever be in a fight. Self-defense starts with situational awareness, avoidance, and deescalation. If you're good enough at those, you won't have to start swinging.

you are correct in one point.. awareness.
so what do i mean by this.. very simple.. hit him first(when it´s obvious he will hit you).
now i am guessing you´re saying but hey it´s self defence.

 

[caped crusader]

you know i have seen guys try to talk and turned away got glassed. glassed is a term we use when a beer glass is used on your face.
I am talking on here about real life

 

[caped crusader]

Boxing tought me to be fast and aware. eyes wide open.
deep meaning & Philosophy is nice...but not for real situations.

 

[Tez3]

you know i have seen guys try to talk and turned away got glassed. glassed is a term we use when a beer glass is used on your face.
I am talking on here about real life

People here do know that.

 

[caped crusader]

People here do know that.

yeah .. not teaching anyone to suck eggs but you know real life is not like a dojo session.
Hey Bro.. stand back .. non aggression training. honestly a joke.

 

[caped crusader]

The most important point is be physically fit. This sharpens your mind.

 

[isshinryuronin]

"Winning" outside of sports is completely subjective and totally in the individual's mind. IMO, winning infers accomplishing one's goals against an adversary's wishes. If the goal is to avoid a fight against an aggressor and one accomplishes this, he has won - he has thwarted the aggressor's plan and accomplished his own. Whether done by logic, emotional appeal, diffusing the situation, threats or simply by one's confident physical bearing, the result is the same.

It's also possible to lose the battle, but win the war as a result. So there may be a tactical loss, but a strategic win. Sometimes it's the opposite. A short term win may set the stage for a long term loss. It's all relative to how big or how little of a picture we are considering.

Reminds me of a story, I believe from ancient China - here is the tale of a mother talking to her friend:

A - My son found a beautiful horse, abandoned in the valley.
B - Oh, how wonderful!
A - He tried to ride it, but was thrown off and broke his leg, and now he limps.
B - Oh, how terrible!
A - The army came to draft him into battle, but since he was crippled, they let him stay on the farm with us.
B - Oh, how wonderful!

 

[caped crusader]

"Winning" outside of sports is completely subjective and totally in the individual's mind. IMO, winning infers accomplishing one's goals against an adversary's wishes. If the goal is to avoid a fight against an aggressor and one accomplishes this, he has won - he has thwarted the aggressor's plan and accomplished his own. Whether done by logic, emotional appeal, diffusing the situation, threats or simply by one's confident physical bearing, the result is the same.

It's also possible to lose the battle, but win the war as a result. So there may be a tactical loss, but a strategic win. Sometimes it's the opposite. A short term win may set the stage for a long term loss. It's all relative to how big or how little of a picture we are considering.

Reminds me of a story, I believe from ancient China - here is the tale of a mother talking to her friend:

A - My son found a beautiful horse, abandoned in the valley.
B - Oh, how wonderful!
A - He tried to ride it, but was thrown off and broke his leg, and now he limps.
B - Oh, how terrible!
A - The army came to draft him into battle, but since he was crippled, they let him stay on the farm with us.
B - Oh, how wonderful!

OK but after all this talk have you ever been in a real situataion to use this Philosophy .

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I'm not talking about scientific or mathematical realities; I'm talking about morals, things that are the main cause of most fights anyway.

I thought alcohol, testosterone, and immaturity were the cause of most fights.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

OK but after all this talk have you ever been in a real situataion to use this Philosophy .

I served in the Marine Corps as a military policeman. I've been in a couple of fights in my day.

What I have learned is that it is good to train and be prepared to defend yourself. I have also learned that the majority of fights can be avoided, and should be. Because fighting is inherently dangerous to all in the vicinity, it is inherently antithetical to the very concept of self defense and should be seen as a last resort.

I train and teach others how to fight because we may one day need to. Understanding how rare those circumstances are is important information.

Frankly, I like to hit people. I always have. And I'll take a shot to give one. But a mature human being knows when and where. Don't mistake my preaching peace with the inability to throw hands.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not talking about scientific or mathematical realities; I'm talking about morals, things that are the main cause of most fights anyway.

I see a lot of people get really worked up about things like who had the right of way on the road. Sure, fights do happen over moral issues, but that's not what most of the ones I've seen (including around bars) were about.

 

[drop bear]

I think winning is the wrong focus. Would it be good for me to win an argument if I was wrong?

By the token, self-defense isn't based on winning. It's based on survival. If I lose a fight by avoiding it, I've achieved my goal.

We may be using the term differently, but to me, winning applies to sports and not much else.

Sort of. You have an objective and a whole bunch of problems to solve to reach that objective.

So winning in self defense is a very important concept. In that you have to win all these little battles to achieve that objective.

 

[drop bear]

you are correct in one point.. awareness.
so what do i mean by this.. very simple.. hit him first(when it´s obvious he will hit you).
now i am guessing you´re saying but hey it´s self defence.

Awareness is a good example of winning and loosing. Because someone trying to ambush you is trying to force you in to a position where you can't use your Awareness as effectively.

Your battle is then to counter that.

 

[TenHands]

I see a lot of people get really worked up about things like who had the right of way on the road. Sure, fights do happen over moral issues, but that's not what most of the ones I've seen (including around bars) were about.

The only way this can happen is if one side is uninformed and the other is.

Here's a fun way to test it: find two people arguing about an objective truth, tell them both to "look it up," and the one who says "I don't have to look it up, I'm right!" is the one who's probably wrong.

 

[Steve]

I am a proponent of the old Disney idea of being assertively friendly. On a practical level, I’ve found that this combined with a few other sensible things is effective at defusing volatile situations, even when folks aren’t rational.

I think empathy is very helpful, too.

 

[caped crusader]

I am a proponent of the old Disney idea of being assertively friendly. On a practical level, I’ve found that this combined with a few other sensible things is effective at defusing volatile situations, even when folks aren’t rational.

I think empathy is very helpful, too.

you sound like you don´t live in the "Hood" sure you can be a nice educated man in a middle class surburban area,

 

[Steve]

you sound like you don´t live in the "Hood" sure you can be a nice educated man in a middle class surburban area,

Not for a while. Got me through four years at an inner city high school, and quite a few situations in my adult life, when threatened by folks who were dangerous.

self defense is contextual. I haven’t lived in the “hood” for decades, but I’m pretty good at managing threats of violence from dudes who were recently released from jail, who are often mentally impaired, chemically addicted, and not in great moods.

 

[caped crusader]

Not for a while. Got me through four years at an inner city high school, and quite a few situations in my adult life, when threatened by folks who were dangerous.

self defense is contextual. I haven’t lived in the “hood” for decades, but I’m pretty good at managing threats of violence from dudes who were recently released from jail, who are often mentally impaired, chemically addicted, and not in great moods.

steve you are a Gentleman. not a fighter. maybe i´m wrong. could be a very deep person.