Protecting yourself from accusations

[Kacey]

This thread in Horror Stories started a discussion about protecting yourself from accusations of molestation. Both as a school teacher and a TKD instructor, I avoid situations in which I would be alone with kids in any potentially questionable way.

Years ago, I was talking to a friend of mine who taught band and orchestra before he retired - he told me that one of the reasons he retired when he did was because he had had to adjust his teaching methods too much; he no longer felt comfortable reaching from behind a student of either gender to adjust how the student held a violin and bow, or flute, or a variety of other instruments, and hadn't found a good replacement method. He asked me how I dealt with it, and I told him that, while I will manipulate students through movements as a correction, I am very cautious about when and how I do it - always below the knee or elbow, always when others are present. I am equally cautious when demonstrating grabs, controls, and throws.

Here is some of the rest of the discussion:

I was wondering about the oath myself - along with the part where he taught out of his house. Now, I will grant you that I've made a workout facility in my basement - but it's not big enough for more than 2 or 3 students at a time, and while I have had students come over for extra help, they're adults; the only time kids have come their parent(s) have come with them.

Having a facility in or near your house is not that concerning - a very good friend of mine started teaching in a prefab building while he built his house, and he and his wife lived in part of the facility while the house was being built... and since he was building it himself, it was 10 or 12 years before it was done - but he lived there with his wife, who was around all the time, and there were parents and older students all over the place during the classes. But private lessons in someone's home, for students that age - a police officer with nothing to hide should have known better; that setup is an accusation (true or false) waiting to happen - I would never teach kids in my home without their parent(s) and/or other students present under those circumstances.

Right—it works both ways: protection for the student but also protection for the instructor. Especially in something like MAs, where there is inevitably going to be some kind of physical contact between students and their instructors on occasion (demonstrating a striking or grappling technique, correcting a stance, etc.) Just because of that, I'd feel very uneasy teaching a class of children or young people where there wasn't, for each such student, an adult present with a `guardian' relationship to the child.

I've taught kids in or near my home; parents are always welcome. But, often the primary location is OUTSIDE, in public view.

I'd be leary (and probably insist on having my wife and/or the kid's parents nearby) about working out with a juvenile female alone; it's just too easy for too many accusations to be made -- and I TRUST the kids I teach! Just imagine a very easy scenario... You're working out, and you land a punch that causes a black eye. You've done some grab defenses, too, so she's got bruises on her arms/neck... Now, you get done, and she goes to a doctor's appointment the next day. (Or, even worse, something happens that she goes to the ER.) You think people are going to believe the explanation without some investigation and convincing? Doc or teacher reports it as abuse, parents didn't have a clue what was going on... and suddenly, you're explaining it to a cop.

What do you do?

 

[MA-Caver]

Basically to have every minute accounted for with the child eye-witnessed by a reliable one and/or have your interactions videoed the whole time.
I've been accused before of this atrocity and honestly it's scary as hell because 90% of the time the law is going to favor the child's version than mine. Now with that on "file" it makes it even more difficult the next time. The question will arise, "if he's maintaining his innocence then why are these kids continuing to be saying that about him? Fortunately I was cleared of it and the police saw it was just a vindictive grandmother trying to get me to back out of a family situation (long story). Also the bigger worries are the parents who can be a bit more vindictive than the law which has to respect your own rights even as the accused, parents don't necessarily have to care about that.
It's a sad sticky situation now-a-days that those of us who interact with children have to be way more careful about what we do/say with them and to be even more careful when circumstances have you being alone with them (such as a one on one lesson with an instructor-- which parents should ALWAYS be present irregardless). Sometimes all it takes is for a child is to say "He/She touched me that way" and it's just your word against theirs.
Maybe that's being paranoid but with more and more instructors being charged (and some rightly so) it makes it difficult to feel "comfortable" doing what you've been paid to do.
So basically what to do? Cover your *** and make it irrefutable that nothing inappropriate occurred during your time with the child in question.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Well, maybe in another 10, 15 years or my teacher tells me it's time for me to start teaching, whichever occurs first, I won't even take a student on until they're 21, so........

 

[searcher]

I and my assistant instructors strictly adhere to not being in any one-on-one cocnact with ANY student, regardless of age or gender. It is something that has to be done to protect ourselves. We also have to be careful with how we match up students to work on SD. If there is any question about a student, we watch the pairings very carefully.

 

[bdparsons]

Any one-on-one contact with any student, especially children and opposite gender, should be on videotape from the moment they walk in to the moment they walk out, and keep the videos in a safe place. Won't fix everything, but it will go along way toward preventing false accusations if folks know that's what you do across the board.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute

 

[jks9199]

This thread in Horror Stories started a discussion about protecting yourself from accusations of molestation. Both as a school teacher and a TKD instructor, I avoid situations in which I would be alone with kids in any potentially questionable way.

Years ago, I was talking to a friend of mine who taught band and orchestra before he retired - he told me that one of the reasons he retired when he did was because he had had to adjust his teaching methods too much; he no longer felt comfortable reaching from behind a student of either gender to adjust how the student held a violin and bow, or flute, or a variety of other instruments, and hadn't found a good replacement method. He asked me how I dealt with it, and I told him that, while I will manipulate students through movements as a correction, I am very cautious about when and how I do it - always below the knee or elbow, always when others are present. I am equally cautious when demonstrating grabs, controls, and throws.

Here is some of the rest of the discussion:







What do you do?

No fair; you already got my answer! LOL

Actually, I think it's pretty simple.

Don't be alone with a student in a situation where an accusation might be made. If you teach private lessons, that may mean doing so in a public area, or making sure that there is always someone else in the school with you, able to monitor what's happening. (Not a bad idea, anyway, just in case some fluke happens and you both need rescue... like you're practicing a sacrifice throw, and manage to knock yourself & the student out.)

There are times when you have to adjust a student's body position manually, or grab a student for training, or whatever... I just try to let the student know what's going to happen, why I'm touching them, and what they need to do. If they seem uncomfortable or hesitant, I back off, and find another way.

 

[Rich Parsons]

This thread in Horror Stories started a discussion about protecting yourself from accusations of molestation. Both as a school teacher and a TKD instructor, I avoid situations in which I would be alone with kids in any potentially questionable way.

Years ago, I was talking to a friend of mine who taught band and orchestra before he retired - he told me that one of the reasons he retired when he did was because he had had to adjust his teaching methods too much; he no longer felt comfortable reaching from behind a student of either gender to adjust how the student held a violin and bow, or flute, or a variety of other instruments, and hadn't found a good replacement method. He asked me how I dealt with it, and I told him that, while I will manipulate students through movements as a correction, I am very cautious about when and how I do it - always below the knee or elbow, always when others are present. I am equally cautious when demonstrating grabs, controls, and throws.

Here is some of the rest of the discussion:







What do you do?

When I taught kids classes, I always had another adult around, preferable a female.

We do not just accept kids into our main programs. If we do accept a minor the we usually only do so as a family member who is 16 or is the child of a current student. (* Note: We are not a large club nor do we make our living from the club. *)

That being said, there is no 100% protection from my experience. The sexual harassment training at work talks about impact not the intent, so if someone wishes to take a comment out of context I could be in lots of trouble. I will quote what one young lady said to me in a conversation:

Female: Rich, will you reach over and turn me on?
Rich: Yes, here you go, the ignition is now on. Let me know when you need me to crank the engine.
Female: Dang it, I am having a problem here, may I borrow your laptop?
Rich: Yes, here it is, the battery charger is plugged in and it is already connected to the vehicle communication system.
Female: Wow Rich your this just made my lap hot.
Rich: I know my computer has been on and charging, my apologies.
Laughter from the back seat
Female: Rich, I apologize I just replayed the conversation, and thank you for not taking what I said wrong.
Rich: I knew what you meant and that is why I stated what I did so there would be no confusion for anyone over hearing the conversation.
Female: Thanks

The problem is that if the people in the back seat took exception or if someone outside did, and they complained against me, because I cracked a smile or laughed or what have you, I could have lost my job per policy.

If I say to any one I like your hair cut or your new scarf I could lose my job.

So I try to talk about anything such as this.

I think in our desire for safety of people there is over reaction. This does not mean that children should not be safe. I wish for no child to be hurt ever.

Another case from my past, a long time ago in college, I worked at a place where someone filed charges against an employee for in appropriate contact. (* Hug *) All employees were being investigated by the police. I never truly understood why, but I was told by a detective after being questioned, that I was also under investigation.

So, I did not hug my friends, I did not touch any one except in self defense and I always called the cops and asked to press charges for assault. This lead to a whole lot of calls and reports of me asking to press charges.


This and other incidents in my history has lead me to the point of not wanting to be alone with anyone. Of not truly being able to trust people. Of not understanding why is it like this. I do teach privates, they are friends or people known, or are people I have checked out via others. But this still does not stop a blind accusation.

I know of couples at work that when the get a divorce or split up (* multiple cases which makes me sad *) where the female in the relationship told her friends that he had forced her. This lead to one guy leaving the company and another moving locations to try to get away form the accusations.

 

[FearlessFreep]

This applies in the workplace as well. Never be along with a member of the opposite sex, especially in a closed room. Maybe nothing happens but you don't want to leave open the possibility of an accusation just a working relationship ever sour.

One of the first things I say to new people in class is "Hi, my name is Jay, that's my wife over there, and these are my kids" Sorta helps to set expectations and avoid any potential misunderstandings.

 

[IcemanSK]

When I taught at the community center, we had huge glass window & an area for parents &/or other staff could see the entire room. It helped a lot because I taught by myself. I always wanted to be an open book about my interactions with students.

Next week, I start teaching at my church. Because classes are at night & there aren't 100 people walking around, I had to do some work to protect myself & my students. I asked a new student (who is high school physics teacher) to be my assistant instructor. Even tho she's never trained before, she realizes the importance of having an extra set of eyes & hands to help me out. I always make sure that I'm not alone with any student. Parents are encouraged & welcome at EVERY event we have.

I guess I don't do anything different than any of you do. It's just that it's been in the front of my head, lately.

 

[Guardian]

While sitting reading all of this, I'm glad I decided against instructing children or teenagers period. Even with adult women, we were never alone.

 

[clfsean]

I tend to not teach kids as a rule. It's not hard & fast, but I tend to shy them away to a more "fun" environment than the one I run. it's toooo easy to say or do something that 'we' (fill in your description) may deem inoccuous but their parent doesn't when watching or hearing about it afterwards.

With regard to women, I teach them. No problem. I also tell them it's a contact game & I am going to grab & move them to adjust their body in positions, bear hug them, grab their uniform tops, etc... in an effort to have them "learn" to respond. I tell them this in front of everybody on day one (which is generally everyday) & treat everybody (men/women) just alike. My take is I'm not going to butter coat or kid gloves somebody just because of physiology. I always invite people to leave before class starts if they feel they can't handle that much physical contact between me & them or them & their classmates.

 

[MA-Caver]

With regard to women, I teach them. No problem. I also tell them it's a contact game & I am going to grab & move them to adjust their body in positions, bear hug them, grab their uniform tops, etc... in an effort to have them "learn" to respond. I tell them this in front of everybody on day one (which is generally everyday) & treat everybody (men/women) just alike. My take is I'm not going to butter coat or kid gloves somebody just because of physiology. I always invite people to leave before class starts if they feel they can't handle that much physical contact between me & them or them & their classmates.

And that is what's so sad about it all. People distancing themselves from each other from innocuous physical contact, or complaining about it or just simply not liking it. Is this appropriate? Is that not? Is this really necessary, or isn't it?
There is right and wrong physical contact between people. But it all lies with intent. What do you mean when you touch me that way? What is your purpose? What are your true motives? Too suspicious but our society seems is filled with suspicion.
Martial arts is supposed to (ironically) to t'wart unwanted physical contact. Yet in learning it warrants it, it's needed so to better learn. It seems to boil all down to trust.
clfsean and several others don't want to teach children (who are actually prime students to learn (our) arts) because of the trust issue. Fear, when you come down to it. Fear of being misunderstood or accused of inappropriate contact when it was actual instruction. Having to forewarn the opposite sex of this or that ... not for instructional purposes but out of fear of legal action taken and (unjustly) losing one's reputation because some woman didn't like how you got too close to the tops of her breasts while grabbing the lapels of her gi uniform.

Sad, very sad. Too bad actual perps and rapists don't worry about that sort of thing.

 

[clfsean]

And that is what's so sad about it all. People distancing themselves from each other from innocuous physical contact, or complaining about it or just simply not liking it. Is this appropriate? Is that not? Is this really necessary, or isn't it?
There is right and wrong physical contact between people. But it all lies with intent. What do you mean when you touch me that way? What is your purpose? What are your true motives? Too suspicious but our society seems is filled with suspicion.
Martial arts is supposed to (ironically) to t'wart unwanted physical contact. Yet in learning it warrants it, it's needed so to better learn. It seems to boil all down to trust.
clfsean and several others don't want to teach children (who are actually prime students to learn (our) arts) because of the trust issue. Fear, when you come down to it. Fear of being misunderstood or accused of inappropriate contact when it was actual instruction. Having to forewarn the opposite sex of this or that ... not for instructional purposes but out of fear of legal action taken and (unjustly) losing one's reputation because some woman didn't like how you got too close to the tops of her breasts while grabbing the lapels of her gi uniform.

*sigh* .... Yep...

Sad, very sad. Too bad actual perps and rapists don't worry about that sort of thing.

That's why they're bad guys & we're not.

 

[MarkBarlow]

I always have another adult in the room when I'm teaching. I'm never alone with a child (6 yrs old thru 18). I'll tie a child's obi but only from the front, not reaching around them from behind. If the dogi requires more adjustment, I send them to either their parent or the ever present bench full of moms. If a child isn't old enough to go to the bathroom alone, they're not old enough to be in the dojo so that isn't a problem.

Bottom line, I do my best to avoid the appearance of evil.

 

[clfsean]

I always have another adult in the room when I'm teaching. I'm never alone with a child (6 yrs old thru 18). I'll tie a child's obi but only from the front, not reaching around them from behind. If the dogi requires more adjustment, I send them to either their parent or the ever present bench full of moms. If a child isn't old enough to go to the bathroom alone, they're not old enough to be in the dojo so that isn't a problem.

Bottom line, I do my best to avoid the appearance of evil.

I used to do that when I was teaching at my prior Sifu's school. It worked at his school. With my current sifu, it's not even an after thought. The best way to avoid a problem, avoid the cause.

It bites the wallet a little bit with the missed business & definately in the long term by missing on some incredible potential talent that can be found. But his theory of avoidence begins at the root, not the branch.

 

[Phoenix44]

Witness or video.

 

[Rich Parsons]

With regard to women, I teach them. No problem. I also tell them it's a contact game & I am going to grab & move them to adjust their body in positions, bear hug them, grab their uniform tops, etc... in an effort to have them "learn" to respond. I tell them this in front of everybody on day one (which is generally everyday) & treat everybody (men/women) just alike. My take is I'm not going to butter coat or kid gloves somebody just because of physiology. I always invite people to leave before class starts if they feel they can't handle that much physical contact between me & them or them & their classmates.

I gave a demonstration for a collegiate womens group. The youngest woman there was in her late 50's. If they liked what they saw, they were going to offer to bring me in for other events to help educate women in self defense. The group was also indirectly associated with a local Methodist church as many were also members there as well. The person who was my partner for the demo was the female minister for the local church. This was to help show what women can learn. After the introductions, I started out with a grab from behind where I put my right arm around her and across her what I thought was upper chest with the left hand grabbing her other left hand. I ended placing my hand on her breast. Yes the breast of a female minister. Some of the Ladies were wide eyed and I looked to see what was up and then before I could apologize my friend and minister hit me in the groin and then proceeded from there. No one of the females present thought it was out of order. As the female Minister was not upset. I was the only one upset and worried about it. I am usually not that forward and much more cautious. So, and accident did occur. But everyone thought it was part of the demonstration.

Contact happens. It is part of the art(s). Although I do go out of my way to make it as safe and comfortable as possible. I will modify some techniques that require placing the opponents hands on your own breast during a lock or disarm. I will explain to them that this is modified for practice right now. Later when they feel more comfortable, here is the location for them get the maximum efficiency.

 

[MA-Caver]

Originally Posted by MA-Caver
Sad, very sad. Too bad actual perps and rapists don't worry about that sort of thing.

That's why they're bad guys & we're not.

Yeah but how do you get everyday ordinary people to tell/know the difference?

 

[chinto]

yep it sad, but never alone or with video documentation, and then be careful.. like the emperors wife.. give not the impression of misconduct on your peril.

 

[MarkBarlow]

Be careful with putting video cameras in your dojo. If someone can argue that they had a reasonable expectation of privacy, i.e., dressing area, rest room, etc., it might be argued that you have violated that right to privacy. Don't have even the doorway of dressing rooms or bathrooms in the frame.

While I don't think anyone here would play peeping tom, it's still a good idea to only tape public areas or your office and make sure that there are signs stating that everyone is being taped. Many public facilities do this and declare that it's for "YOUR SAFETY" which we know is bull, it's for them to argue in court that you fell because you were drunk but that's beside the point. It's a good PR and gives students a sense of security while covering your backside.

As sad as it may be, instructors have to take into account that some students are not ethical and will do us harm if given the opportunity. We can't give them that opportunity. By being honest and above-board at all times, we rob those who would harm us of their best weapons.