Properly identify what you teach and learn.

[Gerry Seymour]

I mean..this is effectively a thread on tactical training, which is a field with sub-disciplines. The average person doesn’t even know how to indentify and categorize pre-predation behaviors in the moment.

The statement implies, that if you don’t fit the category, then perhaps you should be the one driving.

I assume you meant to type "shouldn't be the one driving" (if you didn't, the statement makes no sense to me). Again, that assumes any given person knows someone who fits that category, and most don't. So "should" doesn't really factor into that, does it?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Some people have lived very comfortable lives, and the thought wouldn’t cross their mind.

So do you assume it takes specialized training (the apparent original point) or that it just takes not being privileged (the point you seem to be making in this post)?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

He doesn’t. Drop Bear was doing the “MMA or bah” speach, and he was pointing out that pro-level boxing skills aren’t necessarily going to help you in this situation.

No, he kinda wasn't. He does from time to time, but in this case he seemed to just be saying good, reliable fighting skills are more important than specialized training. I mean, Tyson isn't MMA, is he?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Right, while any idiot can just give up his car, there can be a lot more to it than that. Again, different skill set.

This seems to suggest giving up the car is the idiot move. Care to elaborate, or was that your point?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You just used a buncha more words to say what the op said to begin with.

Interesting take. I thought I was disagreeing with their stance on the necessity of defining those terms. As for word count, not sure what your point was, nor where you got the count. I mean, if you're goint to make as point about word count, at least count the words.

 

[drop bear]

When I did my body guard training. Anti car jacking was a lot more to do with route planning. So you don't wind up somewhere you could get boxed in.

Otherwise. Safety distances (which everyone should do) and making sure stay in the fast lane as much as possible. Keep the doors locked. That sort of thing.

Nothing tactical. More just basic defensive driving.

If you are stopped by 3 guys with AK,s then they will probably determine the outcome of that .

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not necessarily.

If you're in tribal country of Afghanistan as the member of a plain-clothes team, you're heavily armed, have drone support--and the three fellows are in your way....other options may be more conducive to mission success.

Context matters.

You might want to recall that the original point that started this side-thread was about an individual. You're pushing this into the "yeah, but what if I had..." territory. Give me any situation, and I can add some circumstance that makes it work differently.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

I assume you meant to type "shouldn't be the one driving" (if you didn't, the statement makes no sense to me). Again, that assumes any given person knows someone who fits that category, and most don't. So "should" doesn't really factor into that, does it?

Correct, my bad.

No, it doesn't. Your original statement was that on average people don't know someone who would be a good designated driver in the event of a possible armed confrontations--so if knowledgeable of the threat, you have 3 options:

a) Do it yourself

b) Get a professional or local that's used to it.

c) Why are you there to begin with?

So do you assume it takes specialized training (the apparent original point) or that it just takes not being privileged (the point you seem to be making in this post)?

Could be lack of privilege, or just life choices. Both training and life experience can get you similar results, the former without the risk.

No, he kinda wasn't. He does from time to time, but in this case he seemed to just be saying good, reliable fighting skills are more important than specialized training. I mean, Tyson isn't MMA, is he?

I get you're friends, and that you're willing to look past how he ignores things, that don't support his arguments on RBSD. I don't have to like it, but that's just human nature.

You are getting into semantics with Tyson. The system he is specialized in, is considered a key system in the practice of MMA.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

You might want to recall that the original point that started this side-thread was about an individual. You're pushing this into the "yeah, but what if I had..." territory. Give me any situation, and I can add some circumstance that makes it work differently.

No, I was simply stating that the best thing to do, depends on the situation, and that letting go of the car is not something that takes specialized training--but other options can.

 

[Jared Traveler]

This seems to suggest giving up the car is the idiot move. Care to elaborate, or was that your point?

Did you see where I already elaborated?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Correct, my bad.

No, it doesn't. Your original statement was that on average people don't know someone who would be a good designated driver in the event of a possible armed confrontations--so if knowledgeable of the threat, you have 3 options:

a) Do it yourself

b) Get a professional or local that's used to it.

c) Why are you there to begin with?



Could be lack of privilege, or just life choices. Both training and life experience can get you similar results, the former without the risk.



I get you're friends, and that you're willing to look past how he ignores things, that don't support his arguments on RBSD. I don't have to like it, but that's just human nature.

You are getting into semantics with Tyson. The system he is specialized in, is considered a key system in the practice of MMA.

You need to read some of the old threads between me and drop bear. I like the guy, and would have a beer with him, but we disagree a lot. And on some pretty fundamental stuff, too.

As for the rest, it just feels like you're dodging around trying to find something to support a statement made that isn't reasonably supportable. There was a good point to be made, but the carjacking with AK's feels like you jumped the shark.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

You need to read some of the old threads between me and drop bear. I like the guy, and would have a beer with him, but we disagree a lot. And on some pretty fundamental stuff, too.

As for the rest, it just feels like you're dodging around trying to find something to support a statement made that isn't reasonably supportable. There was a good point to be made, but the carjacking with AK's feels like you jumped the shark.

In a different thread, you admonished someone for being "MMA or bah." In the same thread Drop Bear was doing pretty much the exact same thing, he just wasn't as aggressive in his wording.

If you're talking about the practicality of teaching that in the US (carjacking and carbines), then I would agree it's not the greatest investment.

However, dealing with heavily armed individuals who hold you up in the car, is a thing in certain parts of the world.

 

[Jared Traveler]

I will make one more attempt at this;
Do you all understand that the point I'm making is not specific at all to 3 guys carjacking you with 3 AK47s? It could just as easily be a scenario where your mother or wife is robbed of her purse by someone holding a screw driver.

How she is going to avoid being in that situation, and/or mitigate it is not found in "martial arts" training. Mitigating it possibly could be done from using firearms based "self-defense" training(let's be realistic they aren't armed, so that's out) but almost certainly not in "combatives training." And oh by the way, she is more likely to be injured in a car wreck on her way to the store, as opposed to actually being robbed, so let's keep this in perspective, remember "safety training" and to wear her seatbelt.

It's really that simple of a concept.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I get you're friends, and that you're willing to look past how he ignores things, that don't support his arguments on RBSD. I don't have to like it, but that's just human nature.

This might be the funniest thing I've read on this site in a while. Dropbear and gerry look past each other's fallacies?Particularly regarding dropbears "do mma" arguments?

 

[lklawson]

This might be the funniest thing I've read on this site in a while. Dropbear and gerry look past each other's fallacies?Particularly regarding dropbears "do mma" arguments?

Does Bear actually have any "friends" here? It seems like his primary primary form of entertainment on MT is to irritate as many people as he can.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Does Bear actually have any "friends" here? It seems like his primary primary form of entertainment on MT is to irritate as many people as he can.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I have wondered that as well--the entertainment part.

 

[lklawson]

I have wondered that as well--the entertainment part.

The point being that Gerry isn't defending Bear's statement because they're friends, as you claimed. He's defending Bear's statement because he believes it to be essentially correct.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

The point being that Gerry isn't defending Bear's statement because they're friends, as you claimed. He's defending Bear's statement because he believes it to be essentially correct.

OK. That is their prerogative.

 

[drop bear]

My friends would call me on my bull crap.

I wouldn't get butt hurt over that.

 

[drop bear]

I will make one more attempt at this;
Do you all understand that the point I'm making is not specific at all to 3 guys carjacking you with 3 AK47s? It could just as easily be a scenario where your mother or wife is robbed of her purse by someone holding a screw driver.

How she is going to avoid being in that situation, and/or mitigate it is not found in "martial arts" training. Mitigating it possibly could be done from using firearms based "self-defense" training(let's be realistic they aren't armed, so that's out) but almost certainly not in "combatives training." And oh by the way, she is more likely to be injured in a car wreck on her way to the store, as opposed to actually being robbed, so let's keep this in perspective, remember "safety training" and to wear her seatbelt.

It's really that simple of a concept.

It just always seems a bit like a gimmick when martial artists do it.