Propaganda Then and Now

[Marginal]

Please, please, please, people, this isn't a partisan issue! For my US audience, I am an American, I have children, I work and try to provide for my family. How different are we? What do we accomplish by squadering our creative ability in fighting each other?

If some of you paid any attention to Bernays and others of his ilk that I posted, then you see what was happening.

We are being turned against each other on purpose.

True. For all our supposed differences, I think we're all perfectly good people. Just 'cause someone thinks one way and someone else thinks another doesn't mean they couldn't have perfectly reasonable conversations on any subject but politics, get along etc.

That said, it's impossible to believe that people don't consider contrived photo ops to be government propaganda. I'm sure Clinton had a more than a few himself, and that every administration has attempted to sell its position to the American public through means other than reason alone.

 

[Makalakumu]

The essence of modern propaganda isn't so far off from the literal interpretation presented here. There's a lot of material in this little video clip that really is provactive if you stop to think about it. The allagory is scifi, but poetic and pertinent.

 

[CoryKS]

This ad has been on tv a lot lately, and it always gives me a chill. Not because it delivers such a powerful message, but for the creepy propagandaliciousness of it.

 

[Nolerama]

propagandaliciousness

That word is awesome.

 

[CoryKS]

That word is awesome.

It's a perfectly cromulent word.

 

[Twin Fist]

...and I suppose flying in on a jet in a flight suit wasn't propaganda, either....

Elder, the man was a qualified jet pilot, and passenger jets dont land on carriers at sea.

 

[elder999]

Elder, the man was a qualified jet pilot, and passenger jets dont land on carriers at sea.

Well, yeah, he was qualified to fly jets, once, but never landed on a carrier, (unlike his dad), didn't land that one, and...oh, yeah-helicopters do land on carriers at sea, especially those just off shore....

but what the heck do I know? :lol: come sail away, come sail away, come sail away with me!

 

[Touch Of Death]

I really good discussion was raised in one of my classes the other day:

From the beginning of the 20th century to the beginning of the 21st, where has the average American experienced the most amount/most effective propaganda?

Someone argued for today's consumer-based media. I argued the effectiveness of war propaganda during WW2.

What do you think? Are we getting more bull now as compared to before?

Its worse today. News used to have hire standards and played to a more well read and more educated public.
Sean

 

[Twin Fist]

you really dont care do you? anything that might make the guy look ok, even if it makes sense, HAS to be spin

cant even be neutral, has to be bad....

and so what even if he just WANTED to wear a flight suit? he EARNED the right to do so

 

[elder999]

you really dont care do you? anything that might make the guy look ok, even if it makes sense, HAS to be spin

cant even be neutral, has to be bad....

and so what even if he just WANTED to wear a flight suit? he EARNED the right to do so

Actually, I was rather disgusted with CNN's reportage on the online interview where he revealed why he no longer plays golf-they completely omitted that he was on the golf course when he was informed of a truck bomb destroying the U.N. headquarters in Bagdhad in 2003, and deciding then not to play anymore-instead, they turned it into a bit of a fluff piece that poked fun at his mannerisms and lack of technical savvy. I think a fundamentally decent gesture like that-as well as his personally sharing condolences with the families of fallen soldiers, something I have reliable and repeated second-hand knowledge of-are genuine and heartfelt on his part....again, though, what the heck do I know?

I think the landing on the U.S.S. Lincoln was pure photo-op, though....

 

[Twin Fist]

never heard the golf story, it is interesting if nothing else

 

[Sukerkin]

TF, you say that Bush the Younger earned the right to wear a flight suit.

Not that I care particularly but isn't it the very well publicised case that he was a draft-dodger who, if it wasn't for his families influence, would've been kicked out of the never-ever-going-to-get-near-combat National Guard reserve unit he was in?

Like I say, it bothers me not a jot, it's your country after all, but it would be nice to know what is true and what is not.

 

[Twin Fist]

no, it is actually proven that he MORE than fulfilled his service obligation, hold on, i'll grab you a link.

 

[Big Don]

TF, you say that Bush the Younger earned the right to wear a flight suit.

Not that I care particularly but isn't it the very well publicised case that he was a draft-dodger who, if it wasn't for his families influence, would've been kicked out of the never-ever-going-to-get-near-combat National Guard reserve unit he was in?

Like I say, it bothers me not a jot, it's your country after all, but it would be nice to know what is true and what is not.

No, but there were false allegations made to that effect, which, were backed up by a fake memo.
(Then Lieutenant) Bush volunteered for service in Vietnam more than once, but, since his unit was trained in aircraft considered obsolete, he was turned down repeatedly.

 

[Twin Fist]

http://www.factcheck.org/new_evidence_supports_bush_military_service_mostly.html


Sukerkin
the thing to remember, that most people forget is that reserve duty isnt really measured in years, but rather in points. For example, one weekend a month gives you 12 points, and the two weeks in summer gives you 7 points, to get credit for the year, you need 19 points.

You can, if your command approves it, do a couple months active, to get enough points for the whole year. A couple of guys in my reserve unit did that.

Bush spent TWO YEARS on active duty for flight school. That ALONE gave him enough points to satisfy his obligation.

http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/001394.html

Even the Boston Globe's story admits Bush served more than the minimum time, and was a fine pilot:
Those who trained and flew with Bush, until he gave up flying in April 1972, said he was among the best pilots in the 111th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron. In the 22-month period between the end of his flight training and his move to Alabama, Bush logged numerous hours of duty, well above the minimum requirements for so-called ''weekend warriors.'' Indeed, in the first four years of his six-year commitment, Bush spent the equivalent of 21 months on active duty, including 18 months in flight school.

I am however, not shocked that the Brittish press failed to report the WHOLE story

 

[Big Don]

I am however, not shocked that the Brittish press failed to report the WHOLE story

I don't know why you would be, CBS tried to kill his reelection with the false memo...
Another important thing to note: Bush landed aboard an S-3 Viking aircraft, not a C2 Greyhound, aka "COD" (Carrier On board Delivery) While he could have forgone the flight suit, it was akin to a show of solidarity with the pilots, and crewmen of the Lincoln.

Shoot, were I the President, I would damn sure fly in EVERYTHING and fire every damn weapon/weapons system in the arsenal. A guy has to have some fun...

 

[Sukerkin]

Thanks chaps.

In a thread about propoganda it was interesting to read just how different two 'stories' can be even when they're about the same verifiable point in the Presidents life.

Just goes to show how a tale can take on a life of it's own if it's repeated enough.

That's why I sometimes refer to something as an "Internet Fact", meaning that it's a point that has been taken up by the Net and spread so widely that it becomes true in the minds of many, regardless of whether it is or not. The Net is a mighty propoganda machine, dwarfing the reach of even the biggest media companies.

 

[Josh]

Bush's whole "mission accomplished" thing wasn't a complete photo op.:bs:

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I am however, not shocked that the Brittish press failed to report the WHOLE story

I'm never surprised anymore when ANY media ANYWHERE doesn't report the whole story, in fact I rather expect it and tune them ALL out.

 

[elder999]

Bush spent TWO YEARS on active duty for flight school. That ALONE gave him enough points to satisfy his obligation.

Actually, his letter of commitment (as I understand it) specified a term of service of 6 years, from 1968-1974. It didin't specify any amount of "time served." In any case, he was honorably discharged, and that has to be good enough......this isn't about the particulars of his military career, but about propaganda, and, indirectly, whether or not his fly-in to the USS Lincoln can or should be construed as such. It was, IMHO, clearly a photo-op moment: he could have used a helicopter, or waited for the ship to dock-it was a mere 30 miles off shore at the time of his landing.