Propaganda Then and Now

[Nolerama]

I really good discussion was raised in one of my classes the other day:

From the beginning of the 20th century to the beginning of the 21st, where has the average American experienced the most amount/most effective propaganda?

Someone argued for today's consumer-based media. I argued the effectiveness of war propaganda during WW2.

What do you think? Are we getting more bull now as compared to before?

 

[Big Don]

The propaganda in WWII was certainly more entertaining: The Colonel Bogey March I had no idea that had lyrics until about three days ago, now, it is stuck in my head, driving me nuts.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I would say that we experience more Propaganda today over television and in our newspapers than ever before.
We are inundated every day with propaganda from everything from what hair product to use to who is ahead in any political field. We hear only the “American” (if you live in America or insert your own countries name) and most of the time have little knowledge of what people in the rest of the world are saying as we seldom read articles or listen to news from other countries

 

[Cryozombie]

Slightly off Topic, but speaking of Propaganda and WWII, go to youtube and look up the WWII military training films Called "Snafu"... cartoons made to entertain troops while training/warning them about things like Booby Traps, Being Lazy, letting out secrets... etc...

Highly entertaining.

 

[elder999]

In WWII it was clerly propaganda; now, it's called FoxNews.

 

[Big Don]

In WWII it was clerly propaganda; now, it's called FoxNews.

Yeah, because ABC, NBC, and CBS have no bias... NBC blew up cars, CBS had FAKE documents, but, they aren't biased...

 

[Twin Fist]

In WWII it was clerly propaganda; now, it's called FoxNews.

This is funny comming from a guy that admitted he doesnt watch fox

 

[Tez3]

The BBC reckons it's reported things correctly when both the left and the right complain about bias in its political news reports. However there is a tendancy when reporting from abroad towards bias, this is because as part of a PC move the reporters now have to be of the ethnic origin from the place they are reporting from!
This is interesting

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/new/Dishonest_Reporter_Award_2007.asp

 

[Sukerkin]

A brilliant link, Irene. Thanks for that.

 

[elder999]

This is funny comming from a guy that admitted he doesnt watch fox

No, but I imagine that Ted Turner does, from time to time-that's funny....

...and, of course,FAIR-that's Fairness and Acurracy In Reporting, a national media watchdog group, doesn't think Fox is propaganda either.....

The Project for Excellence in Journalism, another media watch group, conducted a survey of journalists that showed that Fox was the network journalists most identified as having ideological stance in its coverage, and most identified as advocating conservative political positions,with 56% of national journalists citing Fox News as being especially conservative in its coverage of news.

A year-long study by the University of Maryland'shttp://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/international_security_bt/102.php?nid=&id=&pnt=102&lb=brusc] Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) showed that Americans who relied on the Fox News Channel for their coverage of the Iraq war were the most likely to believe misinformation about the war, whatever their political affiliation may be. Those mistaken facts, the study found, increased viewers' support for the war.

The study found that, in general, people who watched Fox News were convinced of several untrue propositions which were actively promoted by the Bush administration and by Fox, in rallying support for the invasion of Iraq:

Fifty-seven percent of all people surveyed believed the falsity that Iraq gave substantial support to Al-Qaida, or was directly involved in the September 11 attacks (48% after invasion).

Sixty-nine percent believed the falsity that Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the September 11 attacks.

Twenty-two percent believed the falsity that weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq. (Twenty-one percent believed that chem/bio weapons had actually been used against U.S. soldiers in Iraq during 2003)

In the composite analysis of the PIPA study, 80 percent of Fox News watchers had one of more of these misperceptions, in contrast to 71 percent for CBS and 27 percent who tuned to NPR/PBS.

As the Washington Post reported "The ‘fair and balanced’ folks at Fox, the survey concludes, were 'the news source whose viewers had the most misperceptions.' Eighty percent of Fox viewers believed at least one of these un-facts; 45 percent believed all three."

"Fair and balanced" :lol:

Yeah, because ABC, NBC, and CBS have no bias..

Never said that they didn't-though I should point out that in another thread I pointed out that they are all owned and run by corporations with conservative, Republican leanings-like it or not, ALL the news you get is propagandized in one way or another-Fox is just a little more obvious and heavy-handed about it.
I'm not even going to get into how FoxNews manipulates their screen rockers and ticker.....

 

[Twin Fist]

thats called correlation, not causation

But I dont wanna pick nits.

yeah, quote Ted Turner, in fact i will:
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/news/stories/2008/04/03/turner_0404.html

"Most of the people will have died and the rest of us will be cannibals," said Turner, 69. "Civilization will have broken down. The few people left will be living in a failed state — like Somalia or Sudan — and living conditions will be intolerable."

yeha, now THERE is a man who's judgment I would trust..............

oh, Project for Excellence in Journalism did a SURVEY of JOURNALISTS, most of which work for outlets in direct competition with Fox, and whome Fox is humiliating in the ratings, and they trash it.

yeah that MUST mean it is bad, no conflict of interest there at all..........

Elder, you are listing to sources that are both untrustworthy and easily repudiated, and you refuse to find out for yourself.

Thats all that really needs to be said, you are smart enough to figure out the next part.

But lemme guess

You read DailyKOS?
MoveOn.org?
media Matters?

 

[Makalakumu]

I think the types and degree of propaganda we are exposed to today is so much more complex, complete and ubiquitous then at any other time in history. We now have so many methods of delivery, that it really is hard to actually separate yourself from it.

When I read this thread, this guy immediately came to mind.

Edward Louis Bernays (November 22, 1891 – March 9, 1995) is considered one of the fathers of the field of public relations along with Ivy Lee. Combining the ideas of Gustave Le Bon and Wilfred Trotter on crowd psychology with the psychoanalytical ideas of his uncle, Sigmund Freud, Bernays was one of the first to attempt to manipulate public opinion using the psychology of the subconscious.

He felt this manipulation was necessary in society, which he regarded as irrational and dangerous as a result of the 'herd instinct' that Trotter had described. Adam Curtis's award-winning 2002 documentary for the BBC, The Century of the Self, pinpoints Bernays as the originator of modern public relations.

He was named one of the 100 most influential Americans of the 20th century by Life magazine.[1]

In Propaganda (1928), his most important book, Bernays argued that the manipulation of public opinion was a necessary part of democracy:

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.

Eddie Bernays was the father of modern propaganda. His ideas inspired Goebbels in the Nazi effort to convince the German populace that exterminating the Jews was neccessary. His direct clients were every major american corporation and just about every financial elite in the country. In fact, John D. Rockefeller was considered one of his cheif clients.

Every election, every commercial, every public relations campaign uses his ideas on manipulation. Entire careers are based on expanding his work. IMHO, Bernays and his ilk have turned our society into what we see today. To quote Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter described Bernays and his ilk to FDR as "professional poisoners of the public mind, exploiters of foolishness, fanaticism and self-interest."

I think that description is more then apt to describe us today. The realpolitik mantra is as follows...

"The engineering of consent is the very essence of the democratic process, the freedom to persuade and suggest."
– (Edward L. Bernays, "The Engineering of Consent," 1947)

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm going to do something radical and suggest that the topic of propaganda is apolitical. Pointing fingers at one side or the other is literally the pot calling the kettle black. I think if both sides just took at step back and realized just how much their opinions and feelings have been managed, they would get more then a little angry. How do we get away from it? How do we learn to form our own ideas again?

 

[elder999]

I'm going to do something radical and suggest that the topic of propaganda is apolitical. Pointing fingers at one side or the other is literally the pot calling the kettle black.

Well, yeah......interesting, though, how I don't even bother to defend ABC, CBS, NBC or CNN-or have to-and how vociferous the defense of that other network is....

...and just what would you make of this:

 

[Twin Fist]

that signature of yours is rather elitest Elder

 

[elder999]

or this:

 

[Makalakumu]

The same type of people who created Bernays and profitted by his work own all major media outlets. So what if Fox spins it one way. It'll just be spun another way by another organization. Didn't we already discuss Hegel? Freud, Bernays and Wundt were all heavily influenced by the dielectic.

We're caught in the middle of a trap designed to make it look like we have choices.

 

[elder999]

that signature of yours is rather elitest Elder

So? Mr. Mencken was the original Shaman of Sarcasm, the truly Seminal Snark, the Prime Minister of the Sinister.....he was alsoa journalist, interestingly enough.....
.....and, like me, he usually thought he was right, mostly because he usually was-especially in this case, as evidenced by the man who was elected to and has held the highest office in the land for the last 7.5 years.....

....of course,I didn't vote for him. Guess that makes me an elitist...who'd a thunk it? :lol:

Of course, I am an elitist-can't be helped....

 

[Makalakumu]

Ya know, when you think about people like Bernays, its hard not got get cynical about politics. For the last twenty years, back to the point where I very first got interested in politics, we've had administrations, congresses, and special interests that have spun things so hard its hard to tell what is real anymore. Politics is hell where Machiavelli killed Satan and took over.

 

[Big Don]

Oh, absolutely. If you aren't at least a little cynical about politics, or at least politicians, you are just not paying attention.