Promotion stanrdards (Split from Is it disrespectful to ask [...])

[Axiom]

Really? or perhaps it's the sign of people who are thrifty and/or don't want to use wood to help the environment.

Sounds far-fetched.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

As I already mentioned, the board wasn't wood, it was one of those you piece together after breaking it (another sign of a Mcdojo). And they did make several adjustments for her with no improvement in her performance.

Those boards can be temperamental sometimes, I've seen old ones that either break with a tap, or are way tougher to break then their color/thickness suggests

 

[Steve]

Really? or perhaps it's the sign of people who are thrifty and/or don't want to use wood to help the environment. Get a grip man, you far too judgemental without any reasons to be.

yeah, it's not like wood grows on trees! Hahahahah... err.. yeah...

Seriously, though, I agree completely.

 

[Flying Crane]

You know, that's actually a great question. The school I attend is relatively large, with nearly 600 students in total (if you count the after-care programs and the summer camp programs, along with the conventional evening taekwondo classes). We have 4 schools here in the US but we're affiliated with about a hundred schools over in South Korea (the "MBA" franchise in South Korea). Our busiest class during the week is the Wednesday evening "All Belts" class in which we can have as many as 80 students in a class. (Though a class size of 30ish is more typical for us.) During our busy classes, the use of belts certainly helps us divide into groups quickly for curriculum practice.

Being a large schools offers us some advantages:

• Of course there's the obvious economic advantages: the economies of scale. We can afford to do things like host big regional tournaments by virtue of our size (the D.C. TKD Open & Kukkiwon Cup is coming up soon) or even have large production runs of our own internal brand of uniforms (네이버 지도).
• We're large enough to have a number of "special teams" that help with longer-term student retention, by maintaining students' interest past black-belt (a demo team, leadership team, competition team, tkd video club, etc.)
• We have a "deep bench" of instructors, so a big chunk of the school can go away (like, to a tournament) while still leaving a good-sized cadre of instructors at home to carry on.
• Our adult population (both practitioners and parents) is so large that we also have a "deep bench" of specialized skills we can draw upon (IT people, EMTs, photographers, etc.) to support our many projects.
• During black-belt testing, our size makes it fairly easy for us to find good panels of outside masters to serve as our judges.
• And of course the large size results in a very social dojang - peopled tend to make many new friends at our school.

Of course a number of things on that list fall outside the core objective of having "good taekwondo". But the question I'm rolling-around in my mind is: do smaller schools inherently have an easier time of achieving good taekwondo? I'm inclined to think that being small would present its own unique set of challenges, when it comes to having "good taekwondo".

In a small school I feel it is easier for a student to develop a meaningful student-teacher relationship with the teacher, which can translate into better instruction. The teacher really knows the students progress and ability.

In a big school as you describe, a relationship with the instructional staff is not the same thing as a relationship with an instructor. Sounds like there is a real possibility for a student to have no real relationship with any instructor, and the staff as a whole might not have intimate understanding of any particular students progress without needing to consult the records. In my opinion, that is very much less-than-desireable arrangement.

 

[Axiom]

Those boards can be temperamental sometimes, I've seen old ones that either break with a tap, or are way tougher to break then their color/thickness suggests

There's a black belt who get's criticised every single pattern performance for lacking power, and rightly so. He breaks the boards effortlessly. I have broken them so hard that the two people holding dropped it to the ground, and one of those guys is a steoridhead who always has his shirt off in the locker room until the last second.

 

[Flying Crane]

Except that when you call them a waste and a distraction, you are saying they serve no useful purpose, and those of us who use them are distracted by them. I've seen little to support that conclusion.

And thank you for that opinion too.

Edit: I'll expand in my thought here a bit.

My comment was in response to another member who, if I understand him correctly, feels that the test itself should determine the promotion, never mind the months and years of hard training. The test trumps all.

Well, in my school we don't test and we don't use belts. I could interpret his position as an insult to our approach to training, but i don't because I know different strokes for different folks.

I offered an alternative perspective. I do believe that belts are mostly a distraction and a waste, even though I have been ranked in two different systems that use them. My opinion is certainly influenced by those experiences. In my opinion, they very often get in the way.

 

[Tez3]

Sounds far-fetched.

Oh good grief! Are you not thrifty with your hard earnt money, do you not care about the environment and having trees chopped down just to be wasted?

In the UK we don't have a huge lot of martial arts schools and clubs that are run purely for money. Most instructors I know of all styles do it for the love of martial arts, not for the money so are conscious of saving money so buying reusable boards makes complete sense. They are there when they want to use them, it saves buying new ones every time and is environmentally friendly something many of us are these days. It's common sense to buy re-usable ones not a sign of a MCDojo which presumably would want to buy new wood ones everytime so they could charge more!

 

[Tez3]

I have broken them so hard that the two people holding dropped it to the ground,

Of course you did.

 

[Axiom]

Of course you did.

It wasn't even for a grading. I had a bad day and asked the instructor to get me one and had the steoridhead and another dude hold it. Nobody said a word after that

 

[Steve]

It wasn't even for a grading. I had a bad day and asked the instructor to get me one and had the steoridhead and another dude hold it. Nobody said a word after that

I bet they were really impressed.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There's a black belt who get's criticised every single pattern performance for lacking power, and rightly so. He breaks the boards effortlessly. I have broken them so hard that the two people holding dropped it to the ground, and one of those guys is a steoridhead who always has his shirt off in the locker room until the last second.

It wasn't even for a grading. I had a bad day and asked the instructor to get me one and had the steoridhead and another dude hold it. Nobody said a word after that

What do either of these have to do with the boards being temperamental?

Also, if only mcdojos have those boards, and your dojo breaks those boards, wouldn't that mean you train at a mcdojo?

 

[Axiom]

Also, if only mcdojos have those boards, and your dojo breaks those boards, wouldn't that mean you train at a mcdojo?

Look at you, putting two and two together The level of intensity during class is equal to or better than other schools. It's the level of rigor in testing which is Mcdojo on acid.

 

[Axiom]

What do either of these have to do with the boards being temperamental?

What a coincidence they only exhibited that for the particular girl who could break them fine with a kick, but not with her fist. That sure was a quick change!

 

[Axiom]

I bet they were really impressed.

Sure looked like it.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Look at you, putting two and two together The level of intensity during class is equal to or better than other schools. It's the level of rigor in testing which is Mcdojo on acid.

So the testing is a mcdojos, the test for power generation is a mcdojo and the black belts are products of a mcdojo. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

But if you're happy there then that's fine. As long as your aware of what you're getting.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What a coincidence they only exhibited that for the particular girl who could break them fine with a kick, but not with her fist. That sure was a quick change!

I have no clue what girl you're talking about. I would bet in that case it wasn't the board, but my statement was that the boards can be temperamental. Not whatever person you now have it in your head to use to anecdotally probe your point.

 

[Axiom]

So the testing is a mcdojos, the test for power generation is a mcdojo and the black belts are products of a mcdojo. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
.

See, that's a fallacy since I just infromed you that the training is of high intensity. The legit ones will always come through. Only difference is that people who should logically stay as yellow or green belts are promoted to black belts. That rubs you the wrong way initially, but now it's just a way of life for me.

 

[Steve]

Look at you, putting two and two together The level of intensity during class is equal to or better than other schools. It's the level of rigor in testing which is Mcdojo on acid.

I have a quick question. Is the trouble with the term "test?" I get the impression that many schools call them tests when they are really "demonstrations." As I mentioned in other, similar threads, and earlier in this one, it all works better when everything is consistent. But as Tony points out, a disconnect between the "test" and the training is not uncommon. If it bothers you too much, just consider the "tests" to be a public demonstration/celebration of achievement that has already been vetted in training by the instructors.

 

[Steve]

Sure looked like it.

did they swoon?

 

[Axiom]

I have no clue what girl you're talking about.

What difference does it make you knowing who it is? She was in good health and involved in other physical activities. And young, and perfectly capable of performing the forms. But not a simple break with a knife hand against a Mcdojo plastered board.