Professor Chow, Always the warrior

[RevIV]

As a reply back to DavidCC -- I have heard stories that GM Villari trained with Prof. Chow -- But i def. have heard more stories saying that he did not. With the consistency of the stories on the latter i would question if he was ever there. I have seen pictures of Prof. Chow / Prof. Chun/ and Prof. Cerio together, and from other (2nd Hand stories) it def. seemed that GM Villari was around when Prof. Cerio was going through his training with Master Chun and Prof. Chow but it does not prove that he was over there with them. Hopefully Master Bill Chun Jr. will be able to enlighten us more on his father's and Prof Chow's teachings when he comes to New England in July.
In Peace
Jesse Dwire

 

[sandan]

Same with Ed Parker Sr. They reserved their venom and 'stories' for when he was no longer with us.

Have to agree with you there. I am a Tracy's student and I know that Tracy guys get a bad rap for bashing Parker. This is something that shocked me, because the school I come from has always held Mr. Parker in very high regard. We hold Parker, Chow, and Mitose in the same light; they were all our teachers that deserve our respect, no matter what. Just a darn shame that there are people out there that don't see it that way.

 

[Danjo]

I never heard that Villari trianed with Chow. I had heard that he went along with Cerio when he would visit Parker for "Coaching" but that it was Cerio that went a few times to Hawaii to train with Chow.

 

[DavidCC]

That's what I thought too, but then I read this

During this period he and Nick Cerio corresponded and trained with Professor William K.S. Chow. Villari's approach to Kempo was to maintain the style as he learned it through Chow and that is how it is presented in the Villari System today

anyone know for sure?

 

[KenpoDave]

Have to agree with you there. I am a Tracy's student and I know that Tracy guys get a bad rap for bashing Parker. This is something that shocked me, because the school I come from has always held Mr. Parker in very high regard. We hold Parker, Chow, and Mitose in the same light; they were all our teachers that deserve our respect, no matter what. Just a darn shame that there are people out there that don't see it that way.

This is the same at every Tracy's school or seminar I have ever attended/visited.

 

[LawDog]

In response to DavidCC,
SGM Cerio did communicate and train with Professor Chow. To the best of my knowledge, and memory, SGM Villari did not. He did train with a chinese master who was related to his wife, for how long I do not know. Villari and his seniors experimented with their system alot.
After breaking the bonds with SGM Cerio Villari began to change his system. Some of the material he kept in it's original form other material he change completely. Villari increased the amount of combinations, gun, knife, club and escape techniques. You had to have a good memory to maintain it all. The forms were altered on a regular basis.

 

[Carol]

That's what I thought too, but then I read this

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.milfordstudioofselfdefense.com/

During this period he and Nick Cerio corresponded and trained with Professor William K.S. Chow. Villari's approach to Kempo was to maintain the style as he learned it through Chow and that is how it is presented in the Villari System today




anyone know for sure
_________________________________________________

Do I know for sure? Personally, I don't know for sure.

I'd be interested in finding out. I've never personally met Professor Shuras, depsite the fact that he is almost in my backyard. Personally, I think he's a standup guy. I don't see him putting anything on his website that isn't fact. I hope to meet some more folks in New England over the next few months...perhaps I'll have a chance to talk with him personally and ask him myself.

 

[TChase]

That's what I thought too, but then I read this

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.milfordstudioofselfdefense.com/

During this period he and Nick Cerio corresponded and trained with Professor William K.S. Chow. Villari's approach to Kempo was to maintain the style as he learned it through Chow and that is how it is presented in the Villari System today




anyone know for sure
_________________________________________________

Do I know for sure? Personally, I don't know for sure.

I'd be interested in finding out. I've never personally met Professor Shuras, depsite the fact that he is almost in my backyard. Personally, I think he's a standup guy. I don't see him putting anything on his website that isn't fact. I hope to meet some more folks in New England over the next few months...perhaps I'll have a chance to talk with him personally and ask him myself.

While I really can't help you on your question about Villari as that is outside my scope of knowledge, I do know Joe Shuras and he is in fact as stand up as they come. I can shoot him an email with your question if you like.

 

[LawDog]

I to know Joe Shuras and he is a good guy. The statements that I made earlier were from my experience with the USSD. I was with this organization during it's 70's era. During this time I actually owned a USSD franchise. Memories over a 30 plus year are not entirly without fault.
I do know that some of the material was kept the same and other material was altered to fit Freds ideas. Someplace in my attic I still have a copy of their first instructors book. It was far different from the one that was issued in the late 70's.
Question, who knows the real connection between L.Mangone and Fred Villari?

 

[Doc]

That's what I thought too, but then I read this

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.milfordstudioofselfdefense.com/

During this period he and Nick Cerio corresponded and trained with Professor William K.S. Chow. Villari's approach to Kempo was to maintain the style as he learned it through Chow and that is how it is presented in the Villari System today




anyone know for sure
_________________________________________________

Do I know for sure? Personally, I don't know for sure.

I'd be interested in finding out. I've never personally met Professor Shuras, depsite the fact that he is almost in my backyard. Personally, I think he's a standup guy. I don't see him putting anything on his website that isn't fact. I hope to meet some more folks in New England over the next few months...perhaps I'll have a chance to talk with him personally and ask him myself.

If Joe says it, believe it.

 

[DavidCC]

I don't want to be mis-construed as having any negative intent towards Prof. Shuras here (some of you know why I am saying that, and why I don't just ask him myself). Truly, that's not at all why I ask.

As a SK student, I am always trying to learn more aobut the histroy of my style. This was the first time I ever heard that Villari trained with Chow. I've read every website, article and interview I ever found about the history of Shaolin Kempo, and this is the first time anyone has ever said (that I have read) that Villari learned from Chow.

I would think that, if it was true, the Villari camp, and all the descendants my style included), would have made that a part of our "story" a long time ago. Maybe I am just mis-understand what is written there, maybe they just wrote it in a way that doesn't say exactly what they mean (writing content for a new site can be a LOT of work), I don't know. It is possible that they mean Villari got a lot of Chow's knowledge through Nick Cerio (some of the wording seems to suggest that), which I can totally believe.

-D

 

[stickarts]

I had a discussion with Nick Cerio many years ago when i first opened my school. The impression that I got was that Nick Cerio trained with Chow and that Villari learned from Cerio.
Unfortunately, that's all that i know! :0)

 

[TChase]

It is possible that they mean Villari got a lot of Chow's knowledge through Nick Cerio (some of the wording seems to suggest that), which I can totally believe.

-D

That's the way I took it but again, this is something that doesn't concern me. I'll email him tonight when I get home and find out exactly what he meant.

 

[marlon]

Great video...does it not remind anyone of Fred Villari's form Shotongkwa? this is the form he created and gave himself tenth dan for

Respectfully,
marlon

 

[TChase]

While I really can't help you on your question about Villari as that is outside my scope of knowledge, I do know Joe Shuras and he is in fact as stand up as they come. I can shoot him an email with your question if you like.

I finally got an email back from Joe and he said that he just copied the text from Villari's website and pasted it on his site so he could have a bio of Villari on there. So I guess the answer is no, he's not claiming that Villari trained with Chow.

 

[marlon]

Does anyone know how Prof. Chow became such a good martial artist? What did he do to become as good as he was?

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[Danjo]

Does anyone know how Prof. Chow became such a good martial artist? What did he do to become as good as he was?

Respectfully,
Marlon

The same way a lot of those guys did back then: They fought a LOT. They trained like it was for real, then they would go out and test it in real fights and come back and make adjustments. It very quicly sorts out what works and what doesn't. Prof. Chow would not only fight in the street, he'd go and take on other martial artists that talked crap about him for teaching non-Asians. Sounds like a great training program eh? You could probably emulate it to an extent if you got a job as a bouncer in a tough bar or worked concert security at some of the wilder venues out there.

 

[monkey]

Chief Anton Krucky from the Kosho line & Thomas young remeber teaching Mr. Chow.He was in the class photo of black belts I have.
The Kosho line did break into many differant school.
Robert Trais was the firts to do so & teach airmen of the air force.
His school was in Tx.
From what I was told "Mitose-Trias-Young-Krucky-& the others" trained hard on stances-punching the makiwara-kicks & lots of throws.
Few strteet fights to test the ways.
The Mitose rank I have of Thomas Young is for the art
Jujitsu signed by Mitose.Mitose tought many diferant arts.
I often call Roberta Trias & talk to her a use to talk to Tom Mitose.
I have talks with Dr Gulub on the art!I enjoy the history of how
each grew to expand thier ideas to new leves & be the pioneers of arts.
Thats what makes the arts.Not the ranks--but pioneers.Proffessor Chow was one of the best--I was told by Anton Krucky & Dr Gulub.Dr Gulub hold
rank from Robert Trias.

 

[Danjo]

Chief Anton Krucky from the Kosho line & Thomas young remeber teaching Mr. Chow.He was in the class photo of black belts I have.
The Kosho line did break into many differant school.
Robert Trais was the firts to do so & teach airmen of the air force.
His school was in Tx.
From what I was told "Mitose-Trias-Young-Krucky-& the others" trained hard on stances-punching the makiwara-kicks & lots of throws.
Few strteet fights to test the ways.
The Mitose rank I have of Thomas Young is for the art
Jujitsu signed by Mitose.Mitose tought many diferant arts.
I often call Roberta Trias & talk to her a use to talk to Tom Mitose.
I have talks with Dr Gulub on the art!I enjoy the history of how
each grew to expand thier ideas to new leves & be the pioneers of arts.
Thats what makes the arts.Not the ranks--but pioneers.Proffessor Chow was one of the best--I was told by Anton Krucky & Dr Gulub.Dr Gulub hold
rank from Robert Trias.

Errrr....whatever man.

 

[Doc]

Does anyone know how Prof. Chow became such a good martial artist? What did he do to become as good as he was?

Respectfully,
Marlon

There was no internet so he had to actually do it instead of talking about it.