Pressure Points (Kyosho?Kyoto?Kyoso?)

[ppko]

I think the best pressure point is a choke seal the blood and the breath They go out. But nerve strikes they are hard to depend on. And such small targets to get. Now in the clinch maybe they can help a little But yet to other then training drills Where real resistance is not happening that they work well. But for the healing arts Yes they work

you are not using PP's in your scenario, and the point about using these in a fight, well is just not true. PP's lie all over the body with an activation the sixze of about a quarter for each of these, this would be rather easy to access in a fight, now do y ou sit there and aim for a certain point while you are fighting, no, these will be built in if you practice your kata the way they were meant to be praciticed (with visuallization , and practice on a live opponent) this is why there are kata so that you don't have to think about what you do next you are in a position and naturally you flow to the next no thinking just natural.

 

[Hand Sword]

I say keep it simple for real. Hitting the major targets is difficult, hard training or not, let alone all of the quarter sized points. I've seen them and felt them, so I'm not down grading them, but too many factors go into their execution in practice, let alone, during full speed fights.

 

[RoninPimp]

you are not using PP's in your scenario, and the point about using these in a fight, well is just not true. PP's lie all over the body with an activation the sixze of about a quarter for each of these, this would be rather easy to access in a fight, now do y ou sit there and aim for a certain point while you are fighting, no, these will be built in if you practice your kata the way they were meant to be praciticed (with visuallization , and practice on a live opponent) this is why there are kata so that you don't have to think about what you do next you are in a position and naturally you flow to the next no thinking just natural.

-So PP are easy to hit and ones kata will show the way...What nonsense. That would require blind faith. Blind faith has no place in the MA's.

 

[BlackSheep]

PP's lie all over the body with an activation the sixze of about a quarter for each of these

Too bad only two have a proven track record, the jaw and the solar plexus.

 

[frank raud]

Actually there are many KO points the one the he is speaking of most likely lies right here if you look at the picture anywhere the nerve ends, Y's, or crosses there are pressure points but in order to access these you must have the right angle and direction

Fascinating. How are any of these to be considered under the jaw?

 

[DavidCC]

Too bad only two have a proven track record, the jaw and the solar plexus.

I've seen more than one boxing match end on a shot to the side of the ribs (called "liver" but's it not really). So there's 3.

How many times have you seen Remy Bonjasky kick a guy on GB-31 until he can't even walk anymore??? (side of the thigh) that's 4.

on the jaw there are 2 different spots. The side of the jaw and the tip of the jaw. So there's a total of 5 with "proven track records".

 

[DavidCC]

-So PP are easy to hit and ones kata will show the way...What nonsense. That would require blind faith. Blind faith has no place in the MA's.

You don't make sense. how does "you practice your kata the way they were meant to be practiced (with visuallization , and practice on a live opponent)" equal "blind faith"?

Some styles train to attack more than one target, with more than one weapon... just because that's how you train, doesn't make everything else "nonsense".

If you take a movement out of a kata, and work it against a live opponent under pressure... how is that any different than some boxing coach telling you how to punch and where to hit, and then practicing it against a live opponent under pressure???

 

[RoninPimp]

You don't make sense. how does "you practice your kata the way they were meant to be practiced (with visuallization , and practice on a live opponent)" equal "blind faith"?

Some styles train to attack more than one target, with more than one weapon... just because that's how you train, doesn't make everything else "nonsense".

If you take a movement out of a kata, and work it against a live opponent under pressure... how is that any different than some boxing coach telling you how to punch and where to hit, and then practicing it against a live opponent under pressure???

-If he means an alive RESISTING opponent then I'm good. But when is kata practiced with resistance?

 

[BlackSheep]

I've seen more than one boxing match end on a shot to the side of the ribs (called "liver" but's it not really). So there's 3.

Yea that hurts but does that fit the definition of a PP, but if you want to count it that’s ok by me.

How many times have you seen Remy Bonjasky kick a guy on GB-31 until he can't even walk anymore??? (side of the thigh) that's 4.

I’ve experience it in the ring myself, ok that’s four.

on the jaw there are 2 different spots. The side of the jaw and the tip of the jaw. So there's a total of 5 with "proven track records".

The jaw is proven but not the two spots you mentioned.



Four is a far cry from the PP charts I’ve seen and statements like “all over the body”.

 

[lenatoi]

You don't make sense. how does "you practice your kata the way they were meant to be practiced (with visuallization , and practice on a live opponent)" equal "blind faith"?

Some styles train to attack more than one target, with more than one weapon... just because that's how you train, doesn't make everything else "nonsense".

If you take a movement out of a kata, and work it against a live opponent under pressure... how is that any different than some boxing coach telling you how to punch and where to hit, and then practicing it against a live opponent under pressure???

Thankyou! I was thinking the same thing as I read.

 

[Robert Lee]

you are not using PP's in your scenario, and the point about using these in a fight, well is just not true. PP's lie all over the body with an activation the sixze of about a quarter for each of these, this would be rather easy to access in a fight, now do y ou sit there and aim for a certain point while you are fighting, no, these will be built in if you practice your kata the way they were meant to be praciticed (with visuallization , and practice on a live opponent) this is why there are kata so that you don't have to think about what you do next you are in a position and naturally you flow to the next no thinking just natural.

I used the choke as joke in a way. I find pressure points Not that readly a useable tool Far as Kata to many train kata and never understand the break down. the broken down tools in kata is the different seperated movements. If by some chance in a fight a person hits a nerve point And it helps to bring a end Fine But resistive opponents and the difference you find on each person says not to relie on nerve strikes A very small amount of tools come into play in a real fight. And people when fighting have more pain tolorence then So you just do what you have to do to survive and bring a end to the fight. In training where you have a non real resistive partner pain and control on nerve points look good and show to be effective. But when you take the action to a live person trying to harm you or you them .There you find a truth in what you are doing. And you find most often keeping and maintaining a small workable tool box of useable tools that work well for you are much more ready for use in a instance . I Know if i can rattle the brain enough when I hit I can knock some one out. I know if i can get a choke in I can ckoke them out. I can depend on that to happen A flick to the eyes the other person does not see as well. Sure if I am so lucky to hit a nerve point that stops a fight Then hey it helped me. Depend on it no That other person I would be fighting His actions would lead to my actions I would only hope to end what was started. Now with that said. Fighting is not an every day thing Most people in the M/A world never fight on the streets as they mature. BUT some day may have to. A M/A art trains aspects of different approaches of combat. To ready you for that. But with a large tool box of different applications How can a person be good at all of them. They can not. But the can be good at a small amount and comforatble at other amounts. Then a fight you use what you do best If its tui te pressure points Fine hope it works loosen the person up some then they could work better I think

 

[D.Cobb]

Accupressure and accupuncture both use the same points that you would use for fighting with pressure points

Actually no they are not. It is just that the points we use for combat are quite close to the areas of accu/activation. They require different angles, directions etc. It makes it easier to teach newbies if you can refer them to charts or diagrams.

In actual fact, the points we use for combat, especially in those systems who use the term KYUSHO(which is totally wrong anyway), are nerve points, which in and of themselves are different to pressure points.

I used to use the term Kyusho myself, but have since seen the error of my ways through some quality training. I know my avatar still says

Kyusho-What's your point?

, but that's because I can't change it.

Anyhoo, have a nice day.

--Dave

 

[D.Cobb]

As it is simply a matter of anatomy, could you please point out this nerve on an anatomical drawing? If this nerve is under the jaw, is it best attacked by an uppercut? Or are you saying that by hitting the jaw from the side, you cause a sympathetic reaction to a nerve vessel that you haven't directly touched? As you mention only one nerve, does it matter which side you strike? Some many questions you could help fill in my lack of knowledge about.

All nerve points are functional in combat, but in varying degrees. If you know where to strike and how to strike, and have trained it in some kind of real time scenario, then you can do it too.

Due to the fact that most nerve branches are symmetrical(sp?), no it doesn't matter which side you strike on.

--Dave

 

[SFC JeffJ]

In actual fact, the points we use for combat, especially in those systems who use the term KYUSHO(which is totally wrong anyway), are nerve points, which in and of themselves are different to pressure points.

Can you explain the difference to us?

Jeff

 

[D.Cobb]

Actually there are many KO points the one the he is speaking of most likely lies right here if you look at the picture anywhere the nerve ends, Y's, or crosses there are pressure points but in order to access these you must have the right angle and direction

Actually, angle and direction are a secondary consideration. The most important thing in combat is postural integrity. If your posture is correct, then the correct angle and direction will automatically present itself on your opponent.

--Dave

 

[D.Cobb]

-So PP are easy to hit and ones kata will show the way...What nonsense. That would require blind faith. Blind faith has no place in the MA's.

Yes, pressure points are easy to hit, IF YOU TRAIN CORRECTLY & REALISTICALLY.

Yes, ones kata will show the way, IF YOU TRAIN CORRECTLY & REALISTICALLY.

If we didn't begin with some level of blind faith, then we would want to see our instructors in a street fight before we signed on.....

If you want the ability to use pressure points or nerve points or whatever you want to call them, in a real fight, then you have to TRAIN CORRECTLY & REALISTICALLY, for a long time. Nothing worth having comes easy.

--Dave

 

[RoninPimp]

begin with some level of blind faith,

-Speak for yourself.

 

[Hand Sword]

I'd agree with RoninPimp on this one. Blind faith is not what someone who comes for self defense lessons wants. They tried that when they prayed to God to have the attacker spare their life, or passive resistance of talking your way out of it (or something to that effect). Those people want to see it and know it will work the next time their backside depends on it.

 

[JitsuAddict]

Yes, pressure points are easy to hit, IF YOU TRAIN CORRECTLY & REALISTICALLY.

If you want the ability to use pressure points or nerve points or whatever you want to call them, in a real fight, then you have to TRAIN CORRECTLY & REALISTICALLY, for a long time. Nothing worth having comes easy.

--Dave

very true, at my dojo, sensei always emphasises strike points. even without PP's if if you want uke's balance behind them, you are not going to punch to the stomach causing them to lean forward. to use PP's effectively u must train using them, see how uke reacts and use that to your advantage if needed. btw there is an intense PP at the base of the neck (the soft dent in the middle) which if u push in and down with some force hurts like mad. be careful and enjoy

 

[Hand Sword]

First I will say that I beleive in pressure points having seen, felt and used them. So I am not downgrading them, or doubting those that train with them. If you put the time, and effort into it, showing your dedication, I say God Bless You!

Some points to consider in terms of realism. Keep in mind that I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, but, just trying to help out, as I've seen the "Training theory" people in action constantly, and have seen the results.

The fact that your posture having to be correct is everything shows it's weakness in terms of reality. Nothing is everything due to the fact that nothing is or remains constant. What comes the closest to everything is BALANCE. If you are off balance everything else: posture, strikes, etc.. goes to crap. (It applies mentally, and spiritually as well). This is your flaw. For real, your attacker decides where, when, and how the event will go down. You will be caught off balance, no matter how hard you train!

Also consider another reality: Hardly anything ever goes the way you train for-- too many variables, none or very little of which you'll have control over, also those variables keep changing, second to second.

There's also a person's physiological responses. They are different for each person, add to it drugs and alcohol, the chances of pulling PP's off decreases.

There are correct angles etc.. involoved in using them, correct posture or not. Bad idea to get into a fixated mind set of targeting those little dots on the body. People get ears ripped off, groins destroyed, noses broke etc.. and keep fighting. Those are big areas to hit, and they are difficult to get to for real by themselves.

For the sake of reality, keep it simple and straight forward!

Everyone be safe!