Pressure Point Strikes In Kenpo

[Sigung86]

Just as an after thought... If you can find a copy of the Ed Parker, Kenpo, there are charts in there that show locations, and list possible weapons to hit them with, and the possible outcomes. And, interestingly, there are a lot more... Doc has a handle on that, but, believe me, it's much more intense than just getting to the location and hitting it.

 

[Doc]

Just as an after thought... If you can find a copy of the Ed Parker, Kenpo, there are charts in there that show locations, and list possible weapons to hit them with, and the possible outcomes. And, interestingly, there are a lot more... Doc has a handle on that, but, believe me, it's much more intense than just getting to the location and hitting it.

Big mouth!

 

[Doc]

What Dan Farmer is speaking of is an xtension of a conversation and demo we had privately at a Texas lecture last year. What most seem to miss, is even extensive knowledge of the location of "pressure points" and "nerve cavities" is not enough. I have students who are acupuncturists who do not have the martial knowledge of application. They cannot always find the nerves as well. There is a reason for this that begins to bring to light it's complexity.

Most nerve cavity and pressure point charts are designed for a healing professional and are illustrative of a supine and gender neutral posture. The availability and accessability varies between male and female. However more importantly, nerve cavities are protected by various densities of fibrous and hard tissue, as well as anatomical individual body geometry. Therefore, the general locations are the same, but individual points are specific to the individual. Moreover, when the carriage is erect, in conjunctions with changes in body posture, this manisfests itself in cavities being "open" or accessable predicated in most cases on the relation of the many body parts to each other from jiiffy-second to jiffy-second. Therefore, without an intricate knowledge of the variables of posture mandates on human anatomy, cavity access is not simple. Of course, in some instances cavity protection can be overcome with extreme blunt force trauma, which is the preferred methodology of the unskilled and unknowledgeable, and is the most common in general. I've demonstrated this on many ocassions in lectures. "Poking" a person in one posture, than adjusting to another and poking again with a dramatically different response.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

What Dan Farmer is speaking of is an xtension of a conversation and demo we had privately at a Texas lecture last year. What most seem to miss, is even extensive knowledge of the location of "pressure points" and "nerve cavities" is not enough. I have students who are acupuncturists who do not have the martial knowledge of application. They cannot always find the nerves as well. There is a reason for this that begins to bring to light it's complexity.

Most nerve cavity and pressure point charts are designed for a healing professional and are illustrative of a supine and gender neutral posture. The availability and accessability varies between male and female. However more importantly, nerve cavities are protected by various densities of fibrous and hard tissue, as well as anatomical individual body geometry. Therefore, the general locations are the same, but individual points are specific to the individual. Moreover, when the carriage is erect, in conjunctions with changes in body posture, this manisfests itself in cavities being "open" or accessable predicated in most cases on the relation of the many body parts to each other from jiiffy-second to jiffy-second. Therefore, without an intricate knowledge of the variables of posture mandates on human anatomy, cavity access is not simple. Of course, in some instances cavity protection can be overcome with extreme blunt force trauma, which is the preferred methodology of the unskilled and unknowledgeable, and is the most common in general. I've demonstrated this on many ocassions in lectures. "Poking" a person in one posture, than adjusting to another and poking again with a dramatically different response.

Doc, you bring up some great points.....as usual.
During my studies in shiatsu school the importance of learning proper body posture, both as therapist and patient, was paramount to a successful treatment session.
Me, being the exploratory individual I am, would always try and translate my restorative studies to martial studies. Lo and behold, I was starting to realise why certain strikes to certain areas were not working.......improper anatomical positioning.
As you state in your post, when the body is erect, the musculo-skeletal structure is "engaged" and not-receptive (I don't know how else to define it), rather than "disengaged" and receptive, as it would be in the supine, prone, or laterally recumbant treatment position.
There are ways to trick the body into doing certain things whilst treating someone, why couldn't the same thing work during martial application?
I also started to see that not every single "pressure point" "strike" had to be felt to work.

Paying attention to uke's body as they go through the motions of trying to beat you up can reveal a lot of receptive positions.......which is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[kidswarrior]

What most seem to miss, is even extensive knowledge of the location of "pressure points" and "nerve cavities" is not enough.... There is a reason for this that begins to bring to light it's complexity....The general locations are the same, but individual points are specific to the individual. Moreover, when the carriage is erect, in conjunctions with changes in body posture, this manisfests itself in cavities being "open" or accessable predicated in most cases on the relation of the many body parts to each other from jiiffy-second to jiffy-second.

Therefore, without an intricate knowledge of the variables of posture mandates on human anatomy, cavity access is not simple.

This explains a lot in terms of the hit and miss success of my MA pressure point practice. (Why I sometimes have to 'dig around' a second or two to get the anticipated reaction).

Of course, in some instances cavity protection can be overcome with extreme blunt force trauma, which is the preferred methodology of the unskilled and unknowledgeable, and is the most common in general.

Well, it's obvious to me now that I'm not and why I'm not as skilled and knowledgable as I thought, so I guess it's extreme blunt force trauma for me, at least for a few more years.

Then again, if I read Mr. Sumner correctly and recall Flying Crane's comments, Mr. S seemed to be hinting that close counted somewhat. So maybe all is not lost in almost 15 years of training. :uhyeah:

Doc, haven't met you, but you helped me understand a key element here. Thanks! ~kidswarrior

 

[Doc]

This explains a lot in terms of the hit and miss success of my MA pressure point practice. (Why I sometimes have to 'dig around' a second or two to get the anticipated reaction).



Well, it's obvious to me now that I'm not and why I'm not as skilled and knowledgable as I thought, so I guess it's extreme blunt force trauma for me, at least for a few more years.

Then again, if I read Mr. Sumner correctly and recall Flying Crane's comments, Mr. S seemed to be hinting that close counted somewhat. So maybe all is not lost in almost 15 years of training. :uhyeah:

Doc, haven't met you, but you helped me understand a key element here. Thanks! ~kidswarrior

No! Thank YOU sir.

 

[Doc]

Doc, you bring up some great points.....as usual.
During my studies in shiatsu school the importance of learning proper body posture, both as therapist and patient, was paramount to a successful treatment session.
Me, being the exploratory individual I am, would always try and translate my restorative studies to martial studies. Lo and behold, I was starting to realise why certain strikes to certain areas were not working.......improper anatomical positioning.
As you state in your post, when the body is erect, the musculo-skeletal structure is "engaged" and not-receptive (I don't know how else to define it), rather than "disengaged" and receptive, as it would be in the supine, prone, or laterally recumbant treatment position.
There are ways to trick the body into doing certain things whilst treating someone, why couldn't the same thing work during martial application?
I also started to see that not every single "pressure point" "strike" had to be felt to work.

Paying attention to uke's body as they go through the motions of trying to beat you up can reveal a lot of receptive positions.......which is only the tip of the iceberg.

That's correct sir. Your background and obvious knowledge is a good place to be. Just remember, in activations, posture is everything. You are also quite correct in your assessment that, it doesn't have to be felt, to get the desired effect.

Now consider opening cavities without contact, prior to striking. One methodology is to force the body to re-assign the muscular/skeletal structure to a different task, by nudging the posture, or forcing the computer (brain) by accessing the autonomic nervous system to use all its RAM momentarily elsewhere.

 

[Seabrook]

Here is a video I came across.

http://www.combatpressurepoints.com...batpressurepointsprofessorstevestewart/1.html


Thoughts?


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
www.jamieseabrook.blogspot.com

 

[Bode]

Here is a video I came across.


Thoughts?

Thoughts... hmm, every time I see that video, the part where he knocks the guy out without touching him, makes me laugh. There is nothing "combat" about having a highly influenced young student fall to the floor. I wish he hadn't done that because anything else that appears good in the video immediatly becomes suspect.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Here is a video I came across.

http://www.combatpressurepoints.com...batpressurepointsprofessorstevestewart/1.html


Thoughts?


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
www.jamieseabrook.blogspot.com

I'm lookin' for the magic wand and fairy dust..

 

[Matt]

Here is a video I came across.

http://www.combatpressurepoints.com...batpressurepointsprofessorstevestewart/1.html


Thoughts?


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
www.jamieseabrook.blogspot.com

I feel dumber for having watched that. Apparently 'Mass Attack' means you scamper about a Mass of people standing still and Attack them. Then when the last person approaches you, you point at them. If that doesn't work, you pretend to leave and slap them in the neck.

Ugh.

Matt

 

[Doc]

Here is a video I came across.

http://www.combatpressurepoints.com...batpressurepointsprofessorstevestewart/1.html


Thoughts?


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
www.jamieseabrook.blogspot.com

Once upon a time ......

Steve Stewart. The guy that at one point claimed to know Sub Level 4, 5, and 6 Kenpo.

 

[Dave_T_L_W]

Once upon a time ......

Steve Stewart. The guy that at one point claimed to know Sub Level 4, 5, and 6 Kenpo.

Doc,

Forgive me if im wrong but would sub level 5 not involve being inside your target and sub level 6 involve sumhow being inside someone more (perhaps so inside them you didnt have to touch them to hurt them, teleconisis style, ha)

Respectfully Dave

 

[kenposikh]

That's correct sir. Your background and obvious knowledge is a good place to be. Just remember, in activations, posture is everything. You are also quite correct in your assessment that, it doesn't have to be felt, to get the desired effect.

Now consider opening cavities without contact, prior to striking. One methodology is to force the body to re-assign the muscular/skeletal structure to a different task, by nudging the posture, or forcing the computer (brain) by accessing the autonomic nervous system to use all its RAM momentarily elsewhere.

Hi Doc,

Very interesting indeed Was working on some muscle reassignment methodologies over the weekend with my instructor. Very interesting indeed

Amrik

 

[kenposikh]

Here is a video I came across.

http://www.combatpressurepoints.com...batpressurepointsprofessorstevestewart/1.html


Thoughts?


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
www.jamieseabrook.blogspot.com

My one over riding thought is poor students

 

[Doc]

Doc,

Forgive me if im wrong but would sub level 5 not involve being inside your target and sub level 6 involve sumhow being inside someone more (perhaps so inside them you didnt have to touch them to hurt them, teleconisis style, ha)

Respectfully Dave

Sounds like sex to me.

 

[Carol]

Doc,

Forgive me if im wrong but would sub level 5 not involve being inside your target and sub level 6 involve sumhow being inside someone more (perhaps so inside them you didnt have to touch them to hurt them, teleconisis style, ha)

Respectfully Dave

Sounds like sex to me.

:roflmao:

:lfao:

 

[Brother John]

I thought that we could discuss the use of pressure point strikes in Kenpo. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on it. Is this something that you focus on when doing a technique? The pros/cons of it?

I came across this article by Mr. Sumner and felt that it was relevent to the discussion.

IMO, I feel that this is a big plus if these targets can be hit. I personally don't know every spot on the body, but there are some that I manage to hit with pretty good success.

Mike

Excellent topic Mike.
Yes, I do pay attention to such things. I have taken lessons in Kyushojitsu for over a year and a half now....which isn't a martial art, but rather a body of knowledge and methods of activating Kyusho, or pressure points.

If I wasn't already pretty much half a foot out the door to get to work I'd type a LOT more.
But the short of it...Yes, I find the use of pressure points to be VERY helpful! The added effect that you can get, the added result that you can achieve with little effort is pretty increadible once you learn how to do it.

...I'll try to remember to get on and add more later.

Your Brother
John

 

[kidswarrior]

Excellent topic Mike.
Yes, I do pay attention to such things.

...I'll try to remember to get on and add more later.

Your Brother
John

Yes, please do share some more when you get a chance.

 

[Seabrook]

In my opinion, I think that no-touch knockouts should be labelled "hypnosis 101" or better yet "fear 101".