Portland cafe shows officer the door

[MJS]

From your link:

“I don’t have anything against this particular officer and I don’t know anything about him…A police officer in uniform makes people feel unsafe because of previous experiences,” says Langley, who describes his café as an “anarchist space.”
Langley said many of his customers are homeless and marginalized by the police. “We’re gonna value the people that have been victims of police violence. Some of them have talked about having their belongings being taken away or sprayed with water,” he said. “It is exacerbated by the situation in Portland right now. The response to the mental health crisis is shooting people and beating people to death.”

Well, this sums it up nicely. I mean, did we expect a different reason from the cafe owner/co-owner for their asking the cop to leave? I mean, seeing that all of their ummmm 'patrons' have had run ins with the cops, then it makes sense that they'd not want one in there. Of course, were the shoe on the proverbial other foot, and a group of them came into a small mom and pop cafe, and the owner asked them to leave, I'd be willing to bet they'd raise hell.

Of course, notice how the clerk makes no mention of what the cafes 'patrons' did during their encounter with the police to warrant things being taken away or sprayed with water. Were they complying with the cops, or were they being *******s? Now, before anyone gets too upset with my post.....let me state once again, that I know every cop in the world isn't an angle, but this guy makes them all out to be bad. I seriously beg to differ on that one. And is there proof that people with mental health issues were shot and beaten? Thats an honest question as I really dont know. If there are cases, I'd be interested in hearing all of the specifics.

 

[shesulsa]

This is rather slanted, but it's what you asked for.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Cop gets a 'gut' feeling, runs plates. Driver begins to act erratically. Ignores repeated attempts by LEO to resolve situation peacefully. Cops escalate, person goes for a gun, and a firefight ensues. Person is killed.

It is of course the cops fault. If he had just let the person go, nothing would have happened.

Bad cop. Bad. No Coffee for you.

Now go away while we sit here and read bad poetry and reflect on your evilness *snort* and enjoy the pixie dust.

****ing losers.

 

[Archangel M]

A hoodie in warm weather is "one" of the indicators of being armed. Although he had the gun in the glove box.

I don't know what relevance the partner supposedly saying “Are you seriously going to run that plate?” is. 99% of PD's that I am familiar with can run any plate...any time. Sounds like the partner just didn't want to work..probably wanted to stop for a coffee.

They make a valid stop for a moving violation.

Guess what?? He was armed.

BG shoots a cop twice in the legs and gets shot in return. The number of shots thing is only relevant if they continued to shoot after knowing that the subject was no longer a threat. If he was still moving and had a weapon in his hand 32 more shots wouldn't have been out of the question.

Guess their "armed mental health patient" radar wasn't functioning that day.

It IS a shame that the mental health profession failed him and his parents but the cops were doing good police work in this case.

 

[Archangel M]

I guessing that if the cop was killed and the BG was not, then the hippies would have been happier??

OTOH. There have been a seemingly high number of police shootings in Portland lately. Not saying that THAT subject shouldn't be looked into. However Im not convinced that THIS shooting is one to hang the police on.

Also, not meaning to sound callous, but Mental issues are not a get out of jail free card either. If a crime has been committed there WILL be an arrest. The judge/jury/legal system can decide if the persons mental illness is a defense against prosecution. Police officers SHOULD be knowledgeable of mental health issues to prevent unnecessary confrontations and/or be able to apprehend a suspect with minimal use of force, but it's not a shield from justice.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Some of you tout the Tea Party because the Guvment isn't doing what you want.

Or any other 3rd party. I don't see this as a Tea Party issue.

Some of you are cops - good ones, I'm sure (or at least you claim to be).

Who'd claim to be a bad cop? Me, I don't claim to be a cop at all.

Some of you just don't like hippies.

Actually, I like them quite a bit, though I find them to be incredibly naive and simplistic in their views. That and their social systems don't upscale well. I am a geek you know.

Some of you don't like some of the stupid laws in Oregon.

Or NJ. Or NY, or CA or any other place.

How many of you have seen the Portland homeless harassed with your own eyes - their stuff taken away? How many of you who rue this action have been harassed by police because you were doing something legal and they didn't like the way you looked?

Never been there, most likely will never visit.
Were they breaking any laws? Were they asked to move on and refused, got violent, and things went south from there? You know well enough how many stories of peaceful protesters, photographers and just plain tourists I've posted over the years where they were harassed, assaulted and arrested by aggressive cops. So don't paint this as me being unfair. I'm as unbiased as anyone can be.

These people live this. There's a saying about a mile and moccasins. And I should know better than to try to shed light for the blind.

And, how much of that life do they create for themselves? How much of that poor fortune did they draw to themselves? These cases aren't some innocent minding their own business getting tracked down and shot like rabid dogs. There's more to it that that, and painting it that way is a disservice to all parties, and you well know it.

I'm out.

Pity. I was hoping you could maybe put up a timeline of all these police actions, assaults and executions that these tofu eating commies are wet panting it over.

Injustice Everywhere shows no reports of such so far this month. Then again, it's only the 9th.

According to IE's National Police Misconduct Report, Oregon had:
OR 17 Reports
288.62 p/100k
1154.50 p/100k Proj

In fact, it has a -lower- PMR rating than my own county.

http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/?page_id=2227

In fact, here are the few reports I did find. 6 reports for 2010. Involving a police department with just under 1,000 cops in it.

4-29-10
http://is.gd/bNvAe

The Portland Oregon police chief has reversed a controversial decision to exonerate an officer of an excessive force complaint after a civilian review panel threatened to take the case to the city council. The officer in question was accused of unnecessarily tasering a man for recording him on video with other officers as they performed a questionable search for a jaywalker on private property.

5-4-10
http://is.gd/bU3rA

Multiple law enforcement agencies in Oregon are now part of a widening web of federal investigations into a steroid abuse case that started in Canby Oregon last year with the conviction of one cop and the resignation of the police chief for covering it up. Included in the case now are a Washington County narcotics K9 officer and a West Linn police officer who have both resigned as well as the questioning of a Portland police sergeant. Even more cases are expected to come out of this. You know, if it’s not a valid arrest or detention, it’s kidnapping.

5-11-10
http://is.gd/c4wM1

Portland Oregon has finally settled a lawsuit for $1,600,000 to the family of James Chasse who died in the back of a police cruiser in 2006 from injuries including 26 breaks to 16 ribs which punctured his lung that he suffered when tackled and tasered by police who suspected that he urinated on the street.

4-11-10
http://northeastportland.katu.com/content/admitted-officer-road-rage-we-have-victims-9-1-1-call

The Portland Oregon police union president has admitted to being involved in two instances of road rage against the same family in January while an internal investigation into the incidents is ongoing. A local station got a hold of the 911 tapes and, during an interview, the officer told reporters that he’s embarrassed about the whole thing and would like to apologize.

4-6-10
http://is.gd/bhW7E

A Portland Oregon police sergeant who was involved in the questionable 2006 death of a man who suffered 16 broken ribs when tackled by cops on allegations of urinating in public is now under investigation on allegations that he pulled a gun and threatened a motorist in a case of road rage. Portland has been in our police misconduct news feed way too often lately.

3-25-10
http://www.katu.com/news/local/89096382.html

The Portland Oregon police department is facing a crisis of confidence, at least according to a KATU News and Survey USA poll that shows only 56% of residents trust the police. Further into the data, 67% of black residents and 82% of Hispanic residents distrust the city’s cops. All this came after a couple questionable officer-involved shootings including one that garnered national attention.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I guessing that if the cop was killed and the BG was not, then the hippies would have been happier??

OTOH. There have been a seemingly high number of police shootings in Portland lately. Not saying that THAT subject shouldn't be looked into. However Im not convinced that THIS shooting is one to hang the police on.

Also, not meaning to sound callous, but Mental issues are not a get out of jail free card either. If a crime has been committed there WILL be an arrest. The judge/jury/legal system can decide if the persons mental illness is a defense against prosecution. Police officers SHOULD be knowledgeable of mental health issues to prevent unnecessary confrontations and/or be able to apprehend a suspect with minimal use of force, but it's not a shield from justice.

Now why would anarchists want to see those crimes solved?

 

[MJS]

This is rather slanted, but it's what you asked for.

As I've said, many times, not every cop is good, as there are many corrupt ones. But to focus on the link you posted:

- Unless I missed it, I did not see anything about James Chasse, and what he did, other than he was beaten by officers. Again, I'm not condoning the beating, but I can't give an opinion when I know half the story.

- The second case, regarding the shooting. Officers run plates all the time, for various reasons. Failure to signal is an offense here in CT, although I can't speak for every other state. And this, in many cases, is what they look for. Something simple, which gives them the right to pull over the car, and in many cases, has resulted in other findings, ie: weapons, drugs, warrants, suspended DL, no ins, etc., etc. In this case, the person in the car did in fact have a weapon, and used it. Why they fired so many times...this sounds like someone asking why they can't shoot the guy in the leg rather than the chest. I think its a bit of an assumption for anyone, except the media of course, so they can continue to make the LEOs of the world out to be the bad guys, to think that 1 shot will end the situation. Would you just punch someone once if they attacked you, and assume that'll end it?

- As for the mental health services..well, if they're like the ones in the city in which I work for, then its safe to say they suck. If they were really worth anything, then they wouldn't be calling me as much as they do, for an escort to go evaluate a 'client' for the hundredth time. How many times do they need to eval. someone, before its safe to say the client is ****ed in the head and needs to be in a mental hospital? No, instead, they eval. them, possibly bring them to the ER for a committal, and before you know it, they're right back on the street, until their next eval.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Why can we not talk about what a shame it is that the uniform has become tainted due to the actions of some bad apples?

I'd like to know what you perfect cops on MartialTalk.com are doing in YOUR communities and in YOUR precincts to ebb this nationwide problem?

Any Portland cops on the board? Speak up, please.

Nationwide problem of what, exactly? Paint with a broad brush, why don't you.

Here's what I find laughable about this whole thing. For a group the wants everyone to be treated as an individual, they sure are quick to classify certain groups of people as X,Y, or Z, don't you think?

Hey, all white people are racist. And all black people are criminals. And all Asians get good grades (well, that one...).

 

[Carol]

I'd wager that I'm up to between 20-25 traffic stops or questionings (usually the former) over the last 4+ years on my midnight drive home alone. And I dunno about the rest of you, but hate being pulled over or otherwise stopped by the police.

These folks that are not comfortable around cops...how long would they last on a commute like mine? Any bets?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I've driven between Cleveland and Buffalo oh, 100 times, made it from Buffalo to San Antonio and back, Buffalo to Virginia Beach to Miami, to Buffalo, Buffalo to Atlanta to Louisville to Atlanta to Buffalo, and went through 4 TSA check points. Only time I had a long term run in with a cop was when we went to dinner with one in Savannah GA. 10,000+ miles on the highway cross country, about 35k miles the last 2 years and not -1- problem with cops. Gee....wonder why, if there is this vast epidemic of bad cops that I haven't had issues. Must be my great luck, good looks and hot body.
:rofl:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I'd wager that I'm up to between 20-25 traffic stops or questionings (usually the former) over the last 4+ years on my midnight drive home alone. And I dunno about the rest of you, but hate being pulled over or otherwise stopped by the police.

These folks that are not comfortable around cops...how long would they last on a commute like mine? Any bets?

You have a nice smile dear.

Oh, the coffee shop brigade would have the panic running warmly down their legs. But why would they be driving? Driving is bad for the environment, shouldn't they by biking in their berkenstocks?

 

[Carol]

You have a nice smile dear.

Awww thanks. Being courteous and sober doens't hurt either. Just sayin'

Oh, the coffee shop brigade would have the panic running warmly down their legs. But why would they be driving? Driving is bad for the environment, shouldn't they by biking in their berkenstocks? [/quote]

Sure! Hey ya know, with good tires, you can go through anything.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Remember my comments about a Health Inspector visiting them.....

http://www2.co.multnomah.or.us/Health/mchealthinspect/ListSearch.aspx?id=265021

Seems the "collectivists" have issues with hand washing.

Also, they need to get their "food handler’s certificates". Maybe that's where someone explains to them what soap is, how it works, the proper way to lather, etc?

 

[Ken Morgan]

I'd wager that I'm up to between 20-25 traffic stops or questionings (usually the former) over the last 4+ years on my midnight drive home alone. And I dunno about the rest of you, but hate being pulled over or otherwise stopped by the police.

These folks that are not comfortable around cops...how long would they last on a commute like mine? Any bets?

Hun, sounds like the cop is looking for a date....:angel:

I've been driving for...lets just say in a few years, it'll be 30 years and I've been pulled over 3 times. 1 speeding ticket....., and 2 times for a back light out, that I didn't know about. Once a decade. No problem, they're doing their job, isn't that what my taxes are for?

These sound like the anarchist crazies on the far left, where anyone in authority can do no good, and they can do no wrong. Sadly they are allowed to breed.....

 

[David43515]

This is rather slanted, but it's what you asked for.

I appreciate your point of view and I really do think that if I lived there I`d question the training of the police, paramedics, and the hospitals in the area. But incompetance isn`t the same as brutality.

I read the article you linked to and did a search on all the names listed as having died at the hands of police.

James Chasse died of internal injuries including 26 breaks in 16 ribs after being tackled by police who were chasing him while he fled arrest. Apparently parmedics called to the scene ignored his injuries and he died after the broken ribs punctured his lungs. That`s bad.

Arron Campell is an iffy case. He may have been Suicide by cop, he may have been just a case of bad judgement and poor comunications on the scene. An officer with an AR-15 shot him in the back because he thought he was going for a gun and getting ready to run for cover behind several parked cars. Campell had been hold up inside with a gun making threats of suicide and threatening family members. Officers talking him out say he was coming out. An officer who repeatedly shot him with bean bags say he was refusing to follow directions and he wanted to knock him prone for everyone`s saftey. The officer who fired the AR-15 says that he was out of communication with the rest of the team or that they were`nt providing information about how the situation was progressing. When Campbell was shot with a beanbag he didn`t go down. He leaned forward as if to run (Just knocked off balance?) and appeared to be reaching quickly to his rear waistband (Possibly a pain relfex after having just been shot in the buttocks with a beanbag shotgun?). The officer with the AR-15 says he belived the armed and combative suspect was drawing his gun and preparing to head for hard cover where he`d be a deadly threat to the officers and bystanders, so he shot him once in the back. Other officers nearby say that they couldn`t hear because of the barking K-9 unit, some say Campbell was resisting and saying "Shoot me! Shoot me!", others say they didn`t even realize he was still on the scene because of the lack of communications going on. All around bad policework in hindsight, but I wouldn`t want to be faced with the split-second decision the officer had to make w/o really knowing what was going on.

The rest on the list, I couldn`t blame the cops at all according to all the news reports.

Richard "Dickie" Dow ran from police responding to a complaint about a street fight in progress. When they caught up with him in front of his mother`s house, he was so worked up that he stopped breathing and collapsed. He died while police were giving him CPR. No reports of violence or misconduct here. Lesson: Don`t run from the cops, ESPECIALLY if you`re that out of shape.

Deontae Keller, Jose Meija Poot, Kendra James, and James Jahar Perez were all shot while attacking a police officer at close range with a lethal weapon. Some firearms, one a razor knife, one an iron bar, and one while trying to run the cop over with her car.

I consider myself a pretty patient and compassionate guy, but in the same situation I`d have shot any one of them that attacked me or someone in the near vicinity.

 

[Carol]

Hun, sounds like the cop is looking for a date....:angel:

They were rather handsome...but sadly, no...it wasn't that. :lol: When I lived in Mass, the concern was about drunks, I am on the road when the taverns close.

Up here....its still about drunks, somewhat. But perhaps more importantly, the towns here roll up their streets at night. No 2nd or 3rd shift jobs, no place to stop other than coffee at Dunks or a 7-11. If you're anyplace else, including jockeying cars around at the mechanic's with your colleague so it can be fixed in the morning, or pulling over on a side street to take a call from the boss...that is usually enough to trigger a visit from the nice police officer who wants to make sure you aren't causing trouble (or you aren't IN trouble).

 

[shesulsa]

Someone asked for a link. I found one quickly. I did no research. I'm sure google won't provide accurate results for "Portland police officer takes food from hippie" or "Portland police officer rips up box - 'home' to "T-bone", a gulf war vet" and etcetera.

Is it wrong to hate a cop just cuz he's a cop? Sure.

I guess I'm seeing this incident as another marker of the divide between police and citizens who need their protection ... a decay of trust. Some people want that mended, others don't give a ****.

I'd like to see it mended, hence I try to communicate and hopefully facilitate understanding ... but that takes willingness of people on both sides of that fence.

I really have no dog in this hunt, but I find it sadly typical that those sensitive to any kind of anti-cop sentiment over-react. Go ahead, pound that square peg some more. It's bound to cave one day, one way or the other.

 

[MJS]

There was a case very recently in the city in which I work in. A short breakdown on what happened, as I dont want to sidetrack this thread totally. A 911 call was placed by a very uncooprative female, that a male in the house was out of control and hiding under his bed. No mention of age or size or anything else...again, she wasn't cooperating. Upon looking at this, one would think that the person was a child. Upon 2 officers arriving, they encountered a very large, built, 35yo male. He was so large, that they had to link 3, yes 3 pairs of handcuffs together, however, he was able to bring his hands to the front, and began resisting.

As this went on, he became more and more combative. Every cop that was working that night went to the call, in addition to a K9 officer, officers with Tasers and other less lethal weapons. The officers on scene were requesting more help, and other depts. were called. This guy even choked out the K9.

The guy ended up going into cardiac arrest, was brought to the hospital and eventually died.

What happened next? Tons and tons of comments, from people, many who were not likely there, and only heard what the media told them. Things such as, "Why didn't they use a tranqualizer gun on him rather than a taser?" "Why did it take so many officers to restrain him?" These are just a few of the many.

Fact is, is that 9 times out of 10, people who have no LEO background are making assumptions. Someone said something about walking in someone elses shoes...well, same applies here. Mental status has nothing to do with it. In the stories that were linked, the guy had a weapon, resisted, fired at the cops, and people are wondering why he died? Are you ****ing kidding me?!?!?!?!?!

I think people get tired of the anti cop comments, because its those same people who seem to always think the cop is wrong, but never give a solution. I would have loved to have seen any of those people, commenting on that story that happened where I work, control this guy, and then ask them if they needed more than 2 officers. Anytime someone dies, yes, it is a shame, but I'd like to see these same people placed in the same situation as the cops. Its easy to say that you'd talk the person down or be able to control them, but its not always that easy.

I'll say it again...there are bad cops out there, but there are good ones as well. Whats sad, is when ALL cops get lumped into the same group.

 

[Archangel M]

People always seem to be leaning toward "lets disarm cops...lets make it a law that they have to shoot to wound...take away their tasers....OC spray is a chemical weapon...why did it take so many cops...whay so many shots."

Now while I do agree that the police are representatives of the gvt and as such need to have an "eye" kept on them, they DO have a job to do. The problem is that people don't like the fact that sometimes doing this job can be ugly.

It seems like the trend is towards hamstringing the police to make the people they arrest "safer" and make arresting them less "ugly". They seem to ignore the fact that WE are people too, people with families and loved ones. Is OUR safety somehow less important than others? It seems like people think that we are robots. Kill and injure all of them you want..we will get more. Tasers result in some people dying, but other methods result in more people and more cops dying or being injured. There is no 100% safe method out there. You want to be 100% safe from being killed by a cop? Don't fight with them. Don't run from them then reach into your waistband.