Photograph Police, Go To Jail

[Bob Hubbard]

Cell Phone Picture Called Obstruction Of Justice

Man Arrested For Shooting Photo Of Police Activity

"Cruz said that when he heard a commotion, he walked out of his back door with his cell phone to see what was happening. He said that when he saw the street lined with police cars, he decided to take a picture of the scene."I opened (the phone) and took a shot," Cruz said.Moments later, Cruz said he got the shock of his life when an officer came to his back yard gate."He opened the gate and took me by my right hand," Cruz said.Cruz said the officer threw him onto a police car, cuffed him and took him to jail."...
http://www.nbc10.com/news/9574663/detail.html

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Another one:
" A city man is charged with violating state wiretap laws by recording a detective on his home security camera, while the detective was investigating the man’s sons.

Michael Gannon, 49, of 26 Morgan St., was arrested Tuesday night, after he brought a video to the police station to try to file a complaint against Detective Andrew Karlis, according to Gannon’s wife, Janet Gannon, and police"
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060629/NEWS01/106290121

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Interesting articles on some cops abusing their authority.

So, the cops in that first town think that making up a law and intimidating someone is ok. The ones in the second one don't want any video evidence of their own behavior.

If I had a video camera in my car, I'd have been able to document several local cops shortcutting things. Store video has caught them stealing food and drink while investigating robberies at convenience stores, and who knows how many lights they run when not actually on a call. NY is a hands-free cell phone state, but I regularly see them on cell phones while driving.

So, now the new tactic seems to be the idea that "9-11" prevents you from videoing or photographing cops. Some cops have even gone so far as to physically assault someone over the simple act of taking a picture.

So, the question is, "Can you photograph the police?"
Yup. There are some limitations, like you can't interfere with an investigation, shove your way into a crime scene, or trespass. But, if everything is in a public place (ie in front of our house), you can legally take that picture.

For more information on the legalities see:
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007wb3
Berkley CopWatch http://www.berkeleydaily.org/article.cfm?archiveDate=01-28-02&storyID=9813
and Bert P. Krages II — Attorney at Law : Photographers Rights http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm



More stories of cops harassing photographers:
http://www.splc.org/newsflash_archives.asp?id=469&year=2002
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t256830-police-checkup.html
http://www.rcfp.org/news/mag/28-3/new-dontshoo.html
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0309,cotts,42136,6.html

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Additional Resources:
USA photographers rights guide www.krages.com/phoright.htm

Australian photographers rights http://www.4020.net/unposed/photorights.shtml

UK photographers rights http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php

 

[hongkongfooey]

Nothing will happen to the bad cops. They lie to protect their own.

 

[tradrockrat]

Nothing will happen to the bad cops. They lie to protect their own.

That's why there is IA watching the watchdogs.

As a citizen of the Loony Bin that is Los Angeles, I can tell you that the police here opperate under a microscope that all but garantees they will look bad. If a police car so much as pulls into a parking lot with it's lights on, they are being photographed, filmed and watched by newcasters, the cell phone toting public, and the dude with a video camera and dreams of being the next Michael Moron. Truth be damned, all they want is a sound bite.

Frankly, under those conditions not one person in the world could hope to look good for long. Why? Because it is the police officers JOB to interact with people having the worst day of their lives. They have to fight, subdue, talk down and arrest people who, lets face it, don't want to be caught. So after twenty minutes of news footage where the officers try every way they can think of to get the perp to let his mother go and put down the gun, they are forced to fire on him, killing him. They use several rounds of amunition to do this - say 35 - but it was 12 cops firing. That's two or three rounds a piece. I know I'd fire more than that.

The headline on the news, accompanied by 5 seconds of that 20 minute film of a man getting shot to death, states; "Police gun down suspect in a hail of bullets at his home - neighbors complain of continued police brutality."

What's my point? Take it all with a grain of salt. There will always be excesses, and we do need to do all we can to stomp it out, but would you want your pic on the news if you were an undercover police officer? Or after you just had a fight for your life? Especially when you know it's going to be used against you and the force?

Of course not, but typically for us Americans, we want to have our cake and eat it too. "Do your job officer, but don't hurt anybody." So at this point, even the best cops know that a picture can get them in trouble, just for doing their job. So now there is a law against taking pics, and cops are supposed to enforce the law - not interpret it - so we give them crap for doing this as well. It's a no win situation for them and just increases the "us vs. them" mentality we see in this thread.

Just playing Devils Advocate here.

 

[DeLamar.J]

http://www.youtube.com/p.swf?video_id=-1JiE_jBOtg&eurl=http%3A//martialtalk.com/forum/newreply.php&iurl=http%3A//sjl-static13.sjl.youtube.com/vi/-1JiE_jBOtg/2.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskJNg_Y38qhgXVC1B-EAkpMe

 

[Drac]

Nothing will happen to the bad cops. They lie to protect their own.

You're full of it!!!!

 

[DeLamar.J]

Sometimes I feel for the police because they have a very hard and important job. However, if your not doing anything wrong, than you shouldn't be stressing about someone recording you. I have had my experience with dirty police, and it's no picnic.
This is for the people with rose colored glasses on.........Dirty cops are out there, and they get away with more than you will ever know. Other officers turn their heads and let it happen because it would damage their comradery in the department.
Who do you call when the police are the ones hurting you?? If you try to prove it by recording the encounter, you are arrested!. If you fight back yourself, you have just allowed them to legally hurt you instead of illegally.
So either way you lose. Have you ever heard of having to defend yourself from a police officer? Of course not, because if you do, you die. Just hope some one, or some device is there to tell your tale.

 

[DeLamar.J]

You're full of it!!!!

I see your a leo drac. I just want you to know I mean no offence with my previous post. It's just a sad truth, and it's a shame good cops have to be looked at in a bad way when one of their own starts turning dirty.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

It's disgusting how a small minority of our LEO's can act. Not only because it makes the rest look bad, but I believe that they SHOULD be held to a higher standard. If your job is to protect peoples rights, you should not be infringing on those same rights. Most LEO's follow that standard thankfully.

Jeff

 

[HKphooey]

It's disgusting how a small minority of our LEO's can act. Not only because it makes the rest look bad, but I believe that they SHOULD be held to a higher standard. If your job is to protect peoples rights, you should not be infringing on those same rights. Most LEO's follow that standard thankfully.

Jeff

Good one Jeff!

Also...
Just like all other news stories, the media concentrates on the negatives! Plenty of officers have put themselves in harms way and have even died. These poeple were just bad people in general. Police officers are not bad, maybe these police officers were bad people.

For the first guy, he was an idiot to come out in the middle of a police confrontation, take a metallic object and point it at police officers. People get shoot for stuff like that and then it is the LEO or military's fault.

I agree some LEO can take this too far, but walk a mile in their shoes before you pass judgement based on media accounts.

 

[tradrockrat]

Sometimes I feel for the police because they have a very hard and important job. However, if your not doing anything wrong, than you shouldn't be stressing about someone recording you.

And yet many in this country - in fact many of the ones who decry the police and villify them - go absolutely apeshit at tha thought of our government doing this to us. Just look at the threads here about the patriot act and wiretaping - it's the same argument - you're a good, law abiding person - so what if the government watches your e-mails and recorde your phone conversations, goes through your mail, films you in your house, etc...


And worse, can we all admit that sometimes a police officer is forced to get violent? If so how can you possibly know if the 5 seconds of footage showing the police officer beating a suspect isn't warranted or even necessary?

Well the police certainly know that if you film them that will be the only 5 seconds shown on the news that night.

Gee, I wonder why they want to confiscate it?

And last but not least - again, the police officers job is to enforce the law - and this is a law. They have to do it. It's their job.

Now don't get me wrong here -I am most definitley one of those who feel that bad LEOs deserve major penalties and must be held to the highest standards, but I'm also one of those that feels they need to be allowed to do their job without undue harrassment from an ignorant public. It's one thing to for (a) police officer(s) to beat down a suspect until they are no longer a threat to the police or the public, it's another to beat an unarmed man to death in the street - the problem is - we never know which one it was because we weren't there.

Again - just playing Devils Advocate

 

[Drac]

It's just a sad truth, and it's a shame good cops have to be looked at in a bad way when one of their own starts turning dirty.

Yes you are correct..The bad ones do get caught and they are made to suffer, meaning they are no longer a part of the brother/sisterhood of law enforcement....For all the good they did they will ONLY be remembered as a DIRTY COP that finally got caught..

 

[Drac]

And worse, can we all admit that sometimes a police officer is forced to get violent? If so how can you possibly know if the 5 seconds of footage showing the police officer beating a suspect isn't warranted or even necessary

Good post..The camera man didn't arrive until AFTER the suspect smacked and bloodied his wife and child...He didn't see the suspect violently resist arrest by kicking and spitting in the face of someone charged with keeping the peace..They ALWAYS seem to arrive when the cop is running out of steam and knows this person must be cuffed and resorts to tactics you NEVEr saw on T.J.Hooker

Well the police certainly know that if you film them that will be the only 5 seconds shown on the news that night

Yes.. At 6 and 11 and its a safe bet that it will be the lead story and used as a teaser to get you to tune in...

 

[Flatlander]

It's just a sad truth, and it's a shame good cops have to be looked at in a bad way when one of their own starts turning dirty.

It is, nonetheless, a hasty generalization at best to look at these examples of piss poor judgement and infer that it is representative of the group. Of course James, I know you know that.

However, it does dishonour the uniform.

It's interesting; IA was mentioned. The greatest irony that I've ever been exposed to within my relationships with police officers is this underlying hatred for the IA guys, this "us vs. them" mentality from the street guys. They feel as though IA is 'out to get them', yet, it is IA that is trying to protect the honour of the uniform and local department. It's all really quite silly. If you're behaving honourably and fulfilling your oath, what's not to like about Internal Affairs?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I have friends who are LEO. I have family that are LEO. I have the utmost respect for the honest cops. They do a thankless job, in situations that I honestly couldn't handle.

I also have nothing but utter contempt for the "Bad" cops. The ones who abuse their authority, who get off on pushing people around, and those who make up laws just to intimidate folks.

* Photography student is detained and his IDs 'reviewed' after taking night-time photos of a firehouse [photo.net].
* Man was physically intimidated and threatened by private security and police after photographing, from public property, a commercial chemical plant.
* Young photojournalism student in Provincetown is roughed up by Provincetown police after shooting some pictures of cops beating a bunch of drunks.
* MBTA has never permitted photography anywhere on its property, and is well known for its officers harassing photographers. NYC just instituted a no-photography rule in the last year or two.
* Vacationers at the Golden Gate Bridge have had film confiscated for taking pictures of the bridge. When they said they were just tourists, they were told to buy a postcard from the vendor nearby. Security risk, or helping the postcard sellers?
* Photograhpers are often harassed for taking pictures of public buildings, bridges, reservoirs, dams, etc. It has been a prevalent experience that anyone with a camera taking a picture of some sort of infrastructure is deemed a potential terrorist, or terrorism is trotted out as an excuse (see the Golden Gate postcard fiasco.)
* Parents are reported to police by film development labs for taking pictures of their babies playing in the bath and have been threatened with having their children removed from them.

Those are just the few examples that immediately come to mind.

Try this search on for size [google.com]. Add on fun keywords like "harassment","arrested", "questioned", etc.

People are rotuinely roughened up, threatened with arrest or being "reported" to the FBI, arrested and detained then released before the charge-or-release 24 hours are up, lied to about their rights, what the law is, or what they are criminally liable for, had film/cards confiscated, their IDs demanded (would it scare you more if I called them "papers"?), and so on. These days just about anything gets you on various watch lists and that means even more fun.

Know your rights.
Protect your rights.
Know the law.

Web Resources:
USA photographers rights guide www.krages.com/phoright.htm
http://www.kantor.com/blog/2005/12/l...graphers.shtml

Australian photographers rights http://www.4020.net/unposed/photorights.shtml

UK photographers rights http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php

Discussion on Canadian photographers rights

Books:
USA: "The Law, In Plain English, For Photographers"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...31168?v=glance


UK: The Photographer & The Law, by Don Cassell. Found occasionally on eBay.

 

[HKphooey]

After that, search Google for:

police officer saves
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-41,GGLD:en&q=police+officer+saves

police officer dies
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2004-41%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=police+officer+dies

police athletic league
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2004-41%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=police+athletic+league

Just wanted to give examples of the other side so that this thread does not end up like the media.

Officer Brian A. Aselton, KILOD 'RIP'
Master Officer Peter J. Lavery, KILOD "RIP'


PS- Bob, I know you have respect for LEO and I appreciate/value your opinions on the subject.

 

[Kreth]

When it comes right down to it, if you take any sample group of the population, say "LEOs", or "martial artists", or "bikers", or "military personnel", you're going to have both the good and the bad. The problem is that the media emphasizes the bad.

 

[Drac]

The problem is that the media emphasizes the bad.

Always has and always will..