Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
What is the general consensus on the creation of Forms as part of your curriculums....... Is it required for you or not........ if so, do you Love it or hate it? Why?
:asian:
:asian:
Personal From Requirement........
- Thread starter Goldendragon7
- Start date
W
WilliamTLear
Guest
That's a pretty good question. I would have to say that I like the inclusion of Personal Forms. I think they spark creativity in the practitioner, and provide a good base from which to understand a student's thought process. It is not a part of the UKS curriculum for colored belts, but black belts are required to create a thesis form.
Take Care,
Billy
P.S. For those of you who don't know, I have been to a couple of different Kenpo schools, and I was always required to create/perform a personal form during my belt tests until now.
Well, it's not a requirement in our school. I'm not quite sure why but I do think it's a good idea to do so. The way I look at it this is where you really start to understand kenpo. Putting the techniques together and being able to explain why you put those particular tech.'s and in what sequence of order they are in.
Jason Farnsworth
B
brianhunter
Guest
I like it because you can kind of put your personal expression of your tools at whatever point your at. When did this actually get to become implimented into our system? Who brought it about?
K
Kirk
Guest
My school doesn't do it, but I would think that being able to
accomplish this task means that you have a full understanding
of the forms created for the system.
accomplish this task means that you have a full understanding
of the forms created for the system.
S
Scott Bonner
Guest
We do forms, for purple and a big one somewhere up around black. I enjoyed making my personal kata for purple, and learned a lot from it -- like how hard it is to make the techs follow lines! The theme I picked to explore helped me understand how techs are interrelated, also.
Anywho, if anyone cares there's a writeup of my personal kata on Kenponet.com, under Flame, then Written Curriculum, then Forms/Sets, then Personal Katas. There are about 5 of them written up.
The theme I picked to explore helped me understand how techs are interrelated, also. Anywho, if anyone cares there's a writeup of my personal kata on Kenponet.com, under Flame, then Written Curriculum, then Forms/Sets, then Personal Katas. There are about 5 of them written up.
B
brianhunter
Guest
Its not about knowing the system...its about knowing what you have learned up to that point, Your personal form should reflect your interpretation of the system up to that point. Its about what you know now, not what you will know
M
matthewgreenland
Guest
In my area we have begin the perosnal forms at purple. Then for every promotion afterward, we are expected to create new personal forms. I think that this is an invaluable tool: it lets the student apply "their" interpretation of the knowledge; it allows the student to explore the different facets of motion and specialize where sought; it enables the student to conduct their own case study of motion on their own topic. I truly feel strongly about this.
Great instructors are hard to come by; however, I feel that when "urged" to rely on ourselves in the application of new found knowledge, brought via great instructors, we are able to teach ourselves a great deal more than we thought. Self-exploration - may lead to liberation...
Own forms are a great opportunity to see what truths you can benefit from at the level that you are at.
Great instructors are hard to come by; however, I feel that when "urged" to rely on ourselves in the application of new found knowledge, brought via great instructors, we are able to teach ourselves a great deal more than we thought. Self-exploration - may lead to liberation...
Own forms are a great opportunity to see what truths you can benefit from at the level that you are at.
OP
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
- Thread Starter
- #9
LOL, many years ago........ Mr. Parker implimented it sometime in the 60's.
:asian:
OP
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
- Thread Starter
- #10
Sounds like you must be an expert by that post. How much experience do you have to support such a statement?
BTW, I disagree with you.
:asian:
Required in my school:
Belt & Number of Techniques
Purple - 5
Blue - 10
Green - 15
3rd Class Brown - 20
2nd Class Brown - 20 *
1st Class Brown - 20 *
1st Degree Black - 20
2nd Degree Black - 20 *
3rd Degree Black - 20 (Weapons)
* Optional in my original Association.
These forms do NOT have to be cumulative. You may make a much more sophisticated form through the Brown ranks, rather than a new one each time. I have seen students doing completly new forms as their understanding of the Principles, Concepts, and Theories increase. The theme of all "Make-Up Forms" is subject to instructor approval prior to the student testing with it.
Certain students are somewhat intimidated, but with some gentle assistance from classmates, make a good go of it. I personally like to watch them develop as Martial Artists through the expression of the forms as they promote. Remembering that a "mind is like a parachute ... it only works when it is open." I have enjoyed learning from my students in their interpretations of techniques best for them.
-Michael
UKS-Texas :asian:
Belt & Number of Techniques
Purple - 5
Blue - 10
Green - 15
3rd Class Brown - 20
2nd Class Brown - 20 *
1st Class Brown - 20 *
1st Degree Black - 20
2nd Degree Black - 20 *
3rd Degree Black - 20 (Weapons)
* Optional in my original Association.
These forms do NOT have to be cumulative. You may make a much more sophisticated form through the Brown ranks, rather than a new one each time. I have seen students doing completly new forms as their understanding of the Principles, Concepts, and Theories increase. The theme of all "Make-Up Forms" is subject to instructor approval prior to the student testing with it.
Certain students are somewhat intimidated, but with some gentle assistance from classmates, make a good go of it. I personally like to watch them develop as Martial Artists through the expression of the forms as they promote. Remembering that a "mind is like a parachute ... it only works when it is open." I have enjoyed learning from my students in their interpretations of techniques best for them.
-Michael
UKS-Texas :asian:
OP
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
- Thread Starter
- #12
It is an additional knowledge area of expansion....... with guidence they learn how to "map out" or develop a blueprint of their creation. Not to mention the construction of the project and learn about many, many possibilities and problems that they need to discover in the development of the form. It is truly a learning and growing experience.
:asian:
:asian:
B
brianhunter
Guest
never claimed to be an expert...sorry i spoke
OP
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
- Thread Starter
- #14
If I came off harsh but the way you worded your post.......
"Its not about knowing the system...its about knowing what you have learned up to that point, Your personal form should reflect your interpretation of the system up to that point. Its about what you know now, not what you will know."
sounded to me like you are telling us what it is all about (personal form development).
It is in fact much more than that, it is about learning about the system, and what you have experienced up to that point (as you stated) and also make you grow and research a bit as to think about themes of forms, layout of the form, contents of the form, transitions between techniques within the forms, and learning continually.
It is partially about what you know now but also about stretching forward into the future and trying to understand Kenpo from a different perspective.
:asian:
"Its not about knowing the system...its about knowing what you have learned up to that point, Your personal form should reflect your interpretation of the system up to that point. Its about what you know now, not what you will know."
sounded to me like you are telling us what it is all about (personal form development).
It is in fact much more than that, it is about learning about the system, and what you have experienced up to that point (as you stated) and also make you grow and research a bit as to think about themes of forms, layout of the form, contents of the form, transitions between techniques within the forms, and learning continually.
It is partially about what you know now but also about stretching forward into the future and trying to understand Kenpo from a different perspective.
:asian:
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I dislike doing forms, period. That is not to say that I do not understand the need for them. I realize that I am expected to teach them and to help encourage others to make their own. The main reason I have trouble doing forms is that I have a very hard time "visualizing" attackers while I am in "real" motion. I do much better when I have "live" opponents. Otherwise, I feel like I am dancing by myself.
Sigung86
2nd Black Belt
Forms are an integral part of most arts. They are there for a purpose. Given the fact that the original Katas were the main form of training in the old days (I'm talking pre EPAK), it is interesting that there is such a predominance of lack of interest in them.
Forms perform a number of useful functions. They catalogue the moves, content and philosophy of a system in an organized fashion. Forms, to my mind, can be likened to a nmemonic device, or a way to remember the whole system, in an organized and wholly easy to remember fashion. For instance, in Kenpo, Short and Long #1 and #2 are virtually all the basic fighting techniques and philosophy that any one person would ever need. Short #3 on up are encyclopedic volumes that serve to define the "rest of the story" or fighting technique. It is that way in many other systems, as well... For example, Shotokan Karate. In Shotokan, the first five kata are basic fighting methods and are called Heians. Heian translates, as best as I recall, to "Peaceful Mind"... An indication of their importance to the ability to be able to defend oneself.
Forms serve as a method of mental and physical discipline. Each one has its own theme(s) and concepts. Essentially, each form is simply another technique. And there are many things taught there, both obvious and subliminal. Often times the subliminal enlightenment does not come about until a large number of repeated practices, and personal maturity within the system. Each one is a workout of specific muscles and muscle sets that are required to successfully pull off the techniques being taught.
Lots of reasons to do forms, and not all of them have to do with fighting. Doing forms repetitively is also away to keep your brain functioning at different levels. Forms also allow for experimentation by doing things like changing stances within the motion, changing hand positions and weapons, methods of breathing and chi/ki development. And these qualities allow for the student to begin to think outside of the box, and look for his/her own inner meanings.
A complete system is ever so much more than simply tehcniques, and forms (kata) allow for that expression to show forth in a more complete manner.
In actuality, I believe that the forms of your (or any) system, are actually, when done right, intrinsically more important than standalone techniques.
In summation ( )
I believe that it is important to not only have the student make a form of his/her own, but it is also important to allow the student to experiment within the form to see if he/she can become creative and make functional techniques outside of the box that we, as instructors, have given them to work with (the system).
But ... I could be wrong... Just one old guy's opinion.
Dan
Forms perform a number of useful functions. They catalogue the moves, content and philosophy of a system in an organized fashion. Forms, to my mind, can be likened to a nmemonic device, or a way to remember the whole system, in an organized and wholly easy to remember fashion. For instance, in Kenpo, Short and Long #1 and #2 are virtually all the basic fighting techniques and philosophy that any one person would ever need. Short #3 on up are encyclopedic volumes that serve to define the "rest of the story" or fighting technique. It is that way in many other systems, as well... For example, Shotokan Karate. In Shotokan, the first five kata are basic fighting methods and are called Heians. Heian translates, as best as I recall, to "Peaceful Mind"... An indication of their importance to the ability to be able to defend oneself.
Forms serve as a method of mental and physical discipline. Each one has its own theme(s) and concepts. Essentially, each form is simply another technique. And there are many things taught there, both obvious and subliminal. Often times the subliminal enlightenment does not come about until a large number of repeated practices, and personal maturity within the system. Each one is a workout of specific muscles and muscle sets that are required to successfully pull off the techniques being taught.
Lots of reasons to do forms, and not all of them have to do with fighting. Doing forms repetitively is also away to keep your brain functioning at different levels. Forms also allow for experimentation by doing things like changing stances within the motion, changing hand positions and weapons, methods of breathing and chi/ki development. And these qualities allow for the student to begin to think outside of the box, and look for his/her own inner meanings.
A complete system is ever so much more than simply tehcniques, and forms (kata) allow for that expression to show forth in a more complete manner.
In actuality, I believe that the forms of your (or any) system, are actually, when done right, intrinsically more important than standalone techniques.
In summation (
)I believe that it is important to not only have the student make a form of his/her own, but it is also important to allow the student to experiment within the form to see if he/she can become creative and make functional techniques outside of the box that we, as instructors, have given them to work with (the system).
But ... I could be wrong... Just one old guy's opinion.
Dan
B
brianhunter
Guest
Thanks for the clarification...I was just giving my opinion about it...we all know about opinions though :moon: I have nowhere the experience that youguys do but I still try to contribute (its how I learn) but I do appreciate the apoligy, it was kinda harsh (made me think I did something wrong). I remember reading a story somewhere about someone hanging a universal pattern wrong hopefully I can be a quick learner from my mistakes some day too
Sigung86
2nd Black Belt
Originally posted by brianhunter
...
I remember reading a story somewhere about someone hanging a universal pattern wrong hopefully I can be a quick learner from my mistakes some day too
How does one go about hanging the Universal Pattern wrong?
Dan
OP
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
- Thread Starter
- #19
That was a story I shared with Brian about me. I had hung the Universal pattern up on my studio wall with the "heart" sideways. He came along and inquired about it....... I told him I didn't know there was a correct angle........ he then said it was ok as it was....... but as he walked on he muttered.... if you want your art to be "alive" the heart should be "upright" but it's ok as it is.
As soon as he left............ I got my drill out and fixed it!!!!!!!!
LOL.....
:asian:
As soon as he left............ I got my drill out and fixed it!!!!!!!!
LOL.....
:asian:
Sigung86
2nd Black Belt
Sorry Dennis! Must have been a senior moment. I remember very well you telling me that story several years ago ... Now!
Sometimes the memory just gets : :flushed:
Dan:rofl:
Sometimes the memory just gets : :flushed:
Dan:rofl:
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