Perception of aikido by non-practitioners

[The Lorax]

Yet another training gripe, generally universally applicable but to Aikido more than most, is the theoretical extrapolation of ability to defend against attacks not actually trained. For example, what is the Aikido defence against someone who is arguing with you in your face then headbutts you? –very real world attack, especially in some places. We can hypothesize how aiki principles could be applied, but unless you actually train some form of defence, it’s all just talk.

In most self defense situations, IMO, the attack wont be exactly what you train for, no matter which art you choose. The ability to improvise is important in any art. If you train enough you should be able to find something that works, though I admit we've never covered headbutts aside from not letting someone close enough to do it.

PS: I'm sorry about your bad rep, you did what was asked and gave your opinion in a well thought out and innovensive manner. I'd give you a good one to make up for it but I dont know how.

 

[Hand Sword]

Always keep that mind set! It will be attempted to beat it out of you, or get you drunk on the kool aid! Stay true!

 

[Jenna]

In most self defense situations, IMO, the attack wont be exactly what you train for, no matter which art you choose. The ability to improvise is important in any art. If you train enough you should be able to find something that works, though I admit we've never covered headbutts aside from not letting someone close enough to do it.

I like that sentiment.

Boy, there's a lot of strong feelings up there in both camps. I say, go with what works for you. Me? I'm too small to be able to work big hits - so I found something else - I'd say something more clever

Poor Aikido often gets a bad rep, it's true. Maybe that's our fault as it's "shopfronts"? Are we too soft? I dunno, maybe it's a misunderstanding of what the art is actually about, and that's not pounding opponents until they're all loose and rattley. We're generally a bit more chilled and maybe that's taken for us being pussycats.

I'm happy with my art because it does what I want it to. If you're happy with yours too then we don't need to persuade each other of anything - we can just be two happy martial artists... I'll still beat you though, LOL!!!

Yr most obdt hmble svt,
Jenna

 

[The Lorax]

A part of Aikido that I believe is overlooked, is that it can be used to prevent a fight. If someone's giving you trouble and is pushing you or something not quite to the point where punching them in the face would be justified, you can do something to end it before it starts, without being overly aggressive or doing any real damage.

 

[Hand Sword]

This topic reminds me of How I felt about the lack of respect for the arts nowadays compared to what it was when I was a kid, and earlier. It basically came down to who cares what others think. I would say the same here. If your an Aikidka and you are happy, who cares what the perception of non-Aikidoka are.

 

[MartialIntent]

This topic reminds me of How I felt about the lack of respect for the arts nowadays compared to what it was when I was a kid, and earlier. It basically came down to who cares what others think. I would say the same here. If your an Aikidka and you are happy, who cares what the perception of non-Aikidoka are.

Agreed. I'd love to not only have the "I don't care" attitude but more importantly, to actually believe it of myself. Sometimes, I think the problem is that we do care, despite ourselves. And I'd be surprised if any of us didn't feel the need to defend our art. It's hard to sit back and say nothing in the face of verbal incoming - I think we'd agree though that that might be the better option.

Respects!

 

[Hand Sword]

It is the better option, but.........I'm guilty of caring too! LOL! I started a whole thread about Lack of respect and if it was bothersome. A lot of us care, apparently.

 

[Robert Lee]

I have 2 friends that after making shodan in karate took up Akido. They both liked it very much. And stuck with It. I mayself have touched on it and some Akijutsu But They after making 4th dan and the other 5th dan in akido I thought were very good. Tomiki Akido is there base. they both have good sensitivity. Can use palm strike well. Can redirect kicks and punches with easy application. Now as early level blackbelts they lacked the required skill of usefulness. But like I said by the time they moved up the ranks. I feel sure If they had to they could Use there Akido on the streets. Now iIknow others to that hold at least 5th dan But are not as well versed. I believe that is because they did not train as reactive. Good deal on Akido there instructor told them to expect to be hit Befor you get your Akido working. So they new to train harder. But safe. As at times in there harder training someone would get a dislocated shoulder. That is one reason you see the other person trying to go with the flow to avoid injury. on the streets they do not know that. And The boken and Jo staff is part of there training. Not defending Akido But when the right person trains it that person can use it. The right person is someone who trys to learn to appllie it and question it to understand it better.

 

[liuseongsystem]

i have a great respect for the art, in fact i own aikido and the dynamic sphere....a very good book. i have also read several manuals including the Gihon(?).

i have never trained in it, but made a study of it as a part of my training...researching other styles...and i have seen numerous vids.

i see one problem, perhaps.

i am in an art that uses striking technique, rather strong and well balanced striking in fact.

the strikes that i see being thrown in aikido, quite frankly, very poor imo. the shomen uchi is such a telegraphed attack.

for sure the shuto is not the only strike aikido defends, but i wonder how well aikidoka can redirect the strikes of systems that do it well.

my art uses a great deal of biomechanics and breathing to generate a lot of power, and as we also steal and break balance we train to not overextend our strikes. we takedown as well, just differently, so there is a parallel here.

how do you train to be competent against strikes if most of the uke do not strike very well?

i understand a fair amount of the tactics of the system, and it not the theory i question, but rather the quality of strikes delivered in the system.

do you 'import' strikers to train with?

thanx.

 

[Kmax]

Firstly, I will humbly(I'm really not that humble) submit that aikido techniques are, in fact, very effective self defense in the REAL world. I would like to point out that the founder of Aikido, Morihei Ueshiba, had studied jujitsu, judo, and kendo and aikido was certainly rooted in those martial arts and borrows much from thier techniques. I will not say Ueshiba was a god, he would not have either, and it is certainly a misperception to say that he is worshiped as a god in any aikido dojo. He is simply revered as a great master, innovator, and a great teacher of the art.

I was taught judo as a child and found it to be excellent self defense in high school, where I was up against much larger adversaries with no knowledge of martial arts whatsoever. I am essentially a peaceful man and do not seek conflict, but nor will i allow myself to be bullied or allow my friends to be bullied. I weigh 145 pounds when i'm training, 150 or so when i'm not. I am 5', 8" tall. If there is a bully in the room or on the street there is a good chance that I am the one that they will choose. Bullies never single out the 240 pound 6'3 guy. They are cowardly at heart and will try to find someone they feel sure to beat.

The simplest techniques are generally the most effective in real situations, and the more so when attacked by one with no knowledge of them. Arm locks are an EXTREMELY effective way of imobilizing an attacker, whether the techniques were aquired studying judo, jiu-jitsu, wing chun, or wrestling/grappling for that matter. There is also intuition and that can not be under estimated as it becomes honed with experience until one really can sense what the other is going to do and take advantage of that advanced "knowledge". When dealing with multiple attackers, arm locks must be followed by either breaks or throws.

Aikido is certainly well suited to smaller people defending themselves against larger aggressors. I have successfully used Judo/Aikido techniques on the street, 3 years ago, in Toronto, Canada, against 3 adversaries, almost simultaneously. I walked away, with some bruised ribs and a sore ear, as did the two smaller of my opponents(although one was so fat he was almost as wide as he was tall). The largest of the 3, and the instigator of the fight, was 6', 5' and probably weighed in at over 200 lbs. He did not walk away and is still feeling the negative effects of the conflict to this day and perhaps for the rest of his life.

I suppose my point is that i do know for certain that Aikido techniques do work in Real life, in real self defense situations so anyone doubting it has not had the chance to witness it first hand. I have, so there is no doubt in my mind.

In the street fight i spoke of, by the way, i used a combination of techniques from various martial arts, not just aikido. I believe that one must be flexible, able to improvise and adjust one's techniques to the situation at hand. If one sticks rigidly to any one style or method, one risks becoming predictable (the last thing you want in any hand to hand combat) and unable to deal with the unexpected. For example, one of the fellows had a little australian sheep dog and as the dogs master stepped in to strike me, the dog ran in also to bite me on the leg. It was a split second decision to ignore the dog and focus on his master, who had already managed to strike me on the ear. He had a boxing style and stood squarely in his stance so i pretended that i was going to box with him, put my hands up, held his eyes with my eyes and stepped in to kick out his knee. On the way in i actually and quite by accident stepped on the dogs paw and he went howling away. I got a good strike on the outside of the fellows knee and he went down, which left me to deal with the first combatant, who had been initial arm locked and thrown but who had come back to engage again and the 3rd within the space of a few minutes. The 3rd fellow was, in fact, intercepted by a fruit mongers helper who had come out of the fruit shop to see what all the fuss was about, which is a good thing because he was very very fat and i wasn't really sure how to deal with him, having never had any experience with anyone quite so round.

Never did master humility, unfortuanately, the rarest and most attractive of human qualities and one that i do admire greatly in others on those rare occaisions when i see it. In fact i'm PROUD that i was able to defend myself and the honor of the woman i was with at the time and grateful that the techniques that had been passed on to me were in fact effective in a REAL situation with multiple opponents.

There are also other factors involved; it's not just the training. I feel that i was blessed with faster reflexes than most people and certainly faster than the larger folk. However, there is no doubt in my mind that training in judo/aikido saved my *** that day.

Peace, sincerely, Kmax

 

[theletch1]

Welcome aboard, Kmax. An excellent first post. When you get a chance you should check out our Meet and Greet forum and post an introductory post for the board at large.

 

[Hawke]

My first introduction to Aikido was Above the Law.

In my freshman year some dorm buddies wanted to join the Aikido club offered on campus.

Coming from a striking art my initial impression of the Aikido class was not too high, because I saw Steven Seagal do all these cool techniques in the movie. I kept coming to class and did some security for the Los Angeles Coliseum. One of the security guys came to the Aikido class to see what we were learning. Toward the end of class he told the sensei that this stuff is a bunch of malarkey and would not work in the real world. The instructor took this as a challenge and told him to attack him in the middle of the mat. After three attempts, the security guy became a believer.

Even after a whole school year I thought Aikido was too soft. 10 years later I returned to Aikido and saw the benefits of this style as I grow older.

When people say, "Is Aikido effective?"
Response I hear is, "Not sure about your Aikido, but my Aikido is effective."

 

[Yari]

.........
When people say, "Is Aikido effective?"
Response I hear is, "Not sure about your Aikido, but my Aikido is effective."

Nice....

/yari

 

[charyuop]

That is an old answer given to a student from a teacher...that who knows why it became famous.

But to remain in the subject...mine is not.