Pass it down the line

[JowGaWolf]

At 6:40-

That just looks like conditioning. Conditioning to me. If that's the "Pass it down the line" that is being described then there's nothing wrong with as long as someone isn't being blasted beyond their conditioning. Maybe that's why it seems that the last person was getting hit the hardest. Maybe the last person is just better conditioned so he requires harder hits?

 

[Touch Of Death]

The hard hitting isn't the issue. It's the hitting without control that makes a person lose their sense of spatial awareness. Some people try to hit hard without out technique and focus which results in a weaker punch than if they hit hard with technique and focus. In my school we always try to tell the students "stop trying to hard and to focus on hitting with technique." When they focus on the technique they end up hitting harder and safer than they would if they were focused on hitting hard. For the instructors at my school we see it all the time and it's easy to tell when they are hitting with force and when they are hitting with technique. Usually when someone hits the pads without technique, we hear a loud noise from the impact and then we see them rubbing their wrist. When they hit with technique we hear a not so loud noise and then see the person holding the pads commenting that they are feeling the impact in their hands or telling the person to give them a second while they switch the pad to the hand that wasn't holding the pad.

When they try to hit hard, they aren't focused on hitting correctly which is a sign of lack of control. Trying to hit hard is like trying to force a punch the way that you think it should work instead of letting a punch take it's natural movement. When a punch is forced we prevent the natural mechanics of our body from working properly. In short if someone wants to learn punch harder then they should condition and learn to punch with technique.

You know that little feeling everyone has, that tells you, you will do fine in combat? You must first show them they haven't got what they think they have, before, you can show them a better way. Let them hit you.

 

[hoshin1600]

if you're in a technique line and one guy is hitting really hard the next guy hits the next person hard and they hit the next hard and so on until it keeps getting harder until the original person who started it gets hit hardest.

i think what the OP was saying is that one person hit harder than normally expected, that triggers all the other "in line" students to continue to hit harder and harder untill the original student who started the hard hit gets blasted the hardest.

my time in an Okinawan style dojo hits harder than most so i am no stranger to contact but in my early days in kenpo, bullying, hazing and abuse was the norm. this sounds like a remnant from those days to me. when i think back to those days some of it seems funny some of it not. when your in it it seems normal and no big deal but in my opinion after having done that then moving on to Okinawan styles and some MMA training that was actually way harder in contact i look back and think that it was useless and possibly a way to boost egos and make themselves feel tuff when in fact they were paper tigers.

 

[Tez3]

You know that little feeling everyone has, that tells you, you will do fine in combat? You must first show them they haven't got what they think they have, before, you can show them a better way. Let them hit you.

We'll quite happily hit you

However, letting them hit you is a whole different thing from letting your students bash each other in an out of control manner.

Our students have got what you think they haven't even before we get them, if they hadn't they wouldn't be doing the job they do. They are excellent in all types of combat before they even start with martial arts, for them being able to fight better is the icing on the cake not the cake.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You know that little feeling everyone has, that tells you, you will do fine in combat? You must first show them they haven't got what they think they have, before, you can show them a better way. Let them hit you.

Definitely. My son is like that and he gets in mind that he can get out of something just because he can get out of it when I'm showing a demo and explaining the technique. He doesn't understand that if I were to do the technique at full force that he'll be injured. The hardest thing is to have student realize when they "could have been nailed" and that the danger they were end. For them, it's not real unless it comes in full force

I had one student look at a demo we were doing about punching hard and punching with technique. He responded that I was "over-acting" when the technique was done to me. So now he gets to be the "demo boy." It helps a lot because he now understand the difference between the reality of the techniques vs what he assumed he was seeing. He still needs more conditioning because he's like fine crystal and it's like he's breaking when his arm hits my arm or when he's punching the pads too hard. But at least now he understands that we don't over-act. The funniest day was when we were barely punching each other in the stomach with technique and he saw how it was hurting me. I asked him if he wanted to try and the look of fear just took over his face. But at least now he understands that what we do is real and no one is faking.

But I do understand what you mean. sometimes people just have to learn the hard way so that they can separate fantasy from reality.

 

[Buka]

I don't believe I'm for this - but - I really think it's one of those things you have to be there and experience first hand to see what's involved.

I do think there are better ways to either teach people what acceptable power use with each other is, what tactical power is and what control is all about. But not being there for the pass it down the line thing....I dunno'.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't believe I'm for this - but - I really think it's one of those things you have to be there and experience first hand to see what's involved.

I do think there are better ways to either teach people what acceptable power use with each other is, what tactical power is and what control is all about. But not being there for the pass it down the line thing....I dunno'.

I think so too because what was in the video wasn't what I was thinking. When I saw the video it looked more like conditioning than "if you give out the punishment then you have to be able to take it."

 

[jks9199]

So let me see if I understand this idea...

Adam is punching too hard, so Brad punches Charlie harder. Charlie says Brad is punching too hard, so he punches Dan even harder. Dan punches Eddy super hard, and Eddy nails Fred with all he's got. Fred tries to kill George, and the circle is back to Adam, who hasn't got a clue why George just hit him so hard he's not sure what planet he's falling onto... so Adam REALLY gives it to Brad. And it goes on... until someone dies, I guess? Or maybe they all quit, badmouthing each other as uncontrolled asshats who beat on each othe mercilessly...

Yeah. I think maybe an instructor or coach needs to be monitoring, and step in -- and that training partners need to communicate with each other rather than inflict pain on each other.

 

[ShawnP]

So this is a term used in kenpo don't know about other marital arts but it's basically the theory if you're in a technique line and one guy is hitting really hard the next guy hits the next person hard and they hit the next hard and so on until it keeps getting harder until the original person who started it gets hit hardest. Now in theory I do get the idea like if you're going to give it out you have to take it but really if there's some people who haven't actually done anything wrong theyre going to get hit around just because of the stupid actions of one person and then the whole training session turns into a massive brawl trying to hurt each other.

That's my opinion I'd like to hear other opinions

i was subject to this type of thing, while lined up facing the Sensei the person on the left would back fist the the person to his right as hard as they could in the solrplexus, in return that person would do it to the person to their right and so on down the line. since they had us line up by rank, highest starting to the left of the Sensei and me being the lowest rank i woldnt get hit until very last by the Sensei himself....ughh i didnt like that at all but from what they told me it was a conditioning drill.

 

[Touch Of Death]

So let me see if I understand this idea...

Adam is punching too hard, so Brad punches Charlie harder. Charlie says Brad is punching too hard, so he punches Dan even harder. Dan punches Eddy super hard, and Eddy nails Fred with all he's got. Fred tries to kill George, and the circle is back to Adam, who hasn't got a clue why George just hit him so hard he's not sure what planet he's falling onto... so Adam REALLY gives it to Brad. And it goes on... until someone dies, I guess? Or maybe they all quit, badmouthing each other as uncontrolled asshats who beat on each othe mercilessly...

Yeah. I think maybe an instructor or coach needs to be monitoring, and step in -- and that training partners need to communicate with each other rather than inflict pain on each other.

One quick trick is to reverse the line, or control where a guy is; so, he can feel the love. You guys are talking about contact like it's a bad thing. Can I get you a tissue?

 

[Touch Of Death]

i was subject to this type of thing, while lined up facing the Sensei the person on the left would back fist the the person to his right as hard as they could in the solrplexus, in return that person would do it to the person to their right and so on down the line. since they had us line up by rank, highest starting to the left of the Sensei and me being the lowest rank i woldnt get hit until very last by the Sensei himself....ughh i didnt like that at all but from what they told me it was a conditioning drill.

I call that a good time.

 

[jks9199]

One quick trick is to reverse the line, or control where a guy is; so, he can feel the love. You guys are talking about contact like it's a bad thing. Can I get you a tissue?

Where do you get that contact is a bad thing? Contact is necessary to learn. Pain is sometimes necessary to learn, too. But harming someone because of what someone else did? Nah, not good training.

Look, I've gone hard enough to piss blood and make my ears ring for a couple days. There's a place for that. I can even deal with payback on the person who did it -- or an educational beat down, in the right place and time. But they're targeted at the person responsible, not simply the next student in line.

 

[JowGaWolf]

How did the parents feel about this stuff or was this only done in the adult classes?

 

[Touch Of Death]

We'll quite happily hit you

However, letting them hit you is a whole different thing from letting your students bash each other in an out of control manner.

Our students have got what you think they haven't even before we get them, if they hadn't they wouldn't be doing the job they do. They are excellent in all types of combat before they even start with martial arts, for them being able to fight better is the icing on the cake not the cake.

Obviously, children are different from your military club, there.

How did the parents feel about this stuff or was this only done in the adult classes?

It depended on the parent.

 

[Tez3]

Obviously, children are different from your military club, there.

.

I didn't mention anything about children. Think you are mistaking my post for someone else's.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I didn't mention anything about children. Think you are mistaking my post for someone else's.

Yeah, I was talking about children. You were talking about the military. I was thinking you were reading more than just your post.

 

[Tez3]

Yeah, I was talking about children. You were talking about the military. I was thinking you were reading more than just your post.

???? Why quote my post then and talk about children?

How far would I be out if I suggested you are posting just to be provocative?

 

[Touch Of Death]

???? Why quote my post then and talk about children?

How far would I be out if I suggested you are posting just to be provocative?

I was pointing out there is a difference. As if saying this is going to help my case.

 

[Tez3]

I was pointing out there is a difference. As if saying this is going to help my case.

Are you trying to suggest there's a difference between men and children? Really?

 

[drop bear]

???? Why quote my post then and talk about children?

How far would I be out if I suggested you are posting just to be provocative?

Pretty far out.

Ok basic explaination. You train soldiers and so may not need to train certain aspects of aggression. But if you train children you may need to instill them with a bit of fighting spirit.

So you suggestisuggesting this exercise is not applicable. May just mean it is not applicable to you.

And nobody is picking on you. You are not a victim of anything.