Parker or Lee

[hardheadjarhead]

BL also trained in Thai Fighting and even got his golden gloves in american boxing.

Also inaccurate. Bruce Lee didn't box Golden Gloves. Any training he had in Muay Thai was limited. Inosanto opines that Lee was incorrect on his assessment of Muay Thai's mobility.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Toasty]

Doc, do have any input on the following? (I know this is a different Jimmy Woo, just that I have seen similarities between San Soo & Kenpo - wondering if Mr. Parker had any kind of relationship with this Mr. Woo?)

"An old school kung fu master named Ark Wong (r.i.p.), noted along with the grandmaster and Bruce Lee for being one of the first asians to start teaching non-chinese, also taught a five family system called Choy Li Ho Mok Hung (I may have one of the families mixed up, but it's basically the same as San Soo - Choy Li Ho Fut Hung -ours except one of the families we have is substituted with the mok family). Ark Wong came from the same region as Grandmaster Woo, possibly even from the same town. They knew each other well in a friendly rivalry sort of way. This points also to some form of what we know as san soo being practiced in China by other people."

 

[Ray]

I'm glad to see that this thread has turned to some historical discussion.

Frankly, the original subject seemed to be one of the least edifying that I've seen on this site. I really enjoy threads that highlite how others interpet techniques and forms - and I enjoy the historical aspect, especially when it comes from those who know it first hand.

 

[Doc]

No disrespect intended but.
Yes he was a Child actor doing bit roles until he was about 14 then he had larger roles and even a few where he was a major (If not Lead) player. Lee had over 50 movies under his belt before he ever did an american film. And his Martial Arts training started from his father at an early age his father was a Kung-Fu Artist and studied Wu Shu and Shaolin Kung-Fu. And he started Wing Chun at age 13

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/fridayreview/story/0,12102,995294,00.html
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000045/

 

[BruceCalkins]

Sorry, but you're very, very wrong.

Kabuki is classical Japanese theater, not Chinese. Wu Shu has never, I repeat NEVER been used in Kabuki theater in any form at any time.


Regards,


Steve

Absolutly right... Sorry It was a mistake on my behalf. I ment the Chinese Opera House Not Kabuki... OOPS

 

[dubljay]

As one of Ed Parker's Black Belts who had a close relationship with him from 1963 to 1990 when he passed.

No disrespect indended, but curiosity has gotten the better of me.

Sir, what this says to me is that you were in the thick of this stuff back then correct? What you say comes from more or less first hand knowledge of these two individuals right?

Is there any one else here that can make that claim?

 

[Doc]

It was not a Sport. Until 1980s. Wu Shu was used by the Chinese Actors in Kabuki for many years before 1980

Sir, up to this point you've made a lot of "definitive" statements, of which the majority have been very incorrect. Perhaps you should check your sources, or at least share them so others may examine them and reach their own conclusions. Another suggestion; soke-anything is somewhat out of place on this forum - unless of course it is an in-joke. At any rate your credibility in your recommendations of whom you see as significant seniors, to your "historical" postings are, at best, questionable.

 

[Doc]

No disrespect indended, but curiosity has gotten the better of me.

Sir, what this says to me is that you were in the thick of this stuff back then correct? What you say comes from more or less first hand knowledge of these two individuals right?

Is there any one else here that can make that claim?

"Being in the thick of things" is subjective. I happen to be "around" as a young man, and had the priveledge of being friends with Ed Parker, which afforded me the opportunity of meeting Bruce Lee. But I was a long way from being the only one. Most of Parker's local black belts met Bruce lee and interacted with him. My info on how long he studied Wing Chun came from his mouth. As far as all this other stuff he studied, who knows. I do know that logic dictates it is of little consequence. We know about Bruce's child acting career alongside his father. No, he wasn't a major actor ever and was completely unknown in this country. Major actors from any market are known throughout the world, even then. As an old fan of Asian films in the sixties and seventies, there were a great many actors whose work was even known to the general public in this country. Bruce Lee was not one of them.

Knowing of his extensive acting as a child, along with his passionate professional dancing, left little time for any serious martial arts training. Even if it did, there was little of the Chinese Sciences taught to children of the culture. We know definitively that Bruce left Hong Kong at 18 years old. All things considered, just how much knowledge and skill do you think this "kid" had when he left? I go back to what Wally Jay said when he met him. "Nice kid but he don't know much." Parker echoed the same sentiments, but raved about his physical potential. The man was a significant figure in martial arts history, but Parker resisted such deification of individuals, as so do I.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

It was not a Sport. Until 1980s. Wu Shu was used by the Chinese Actors in Kabuki for many years before 1980

chinese kabuki?
hahahaha
i will admit that i am a novice in the martial arts (9 years).....and in the study of japanese history (13 years).
one of the most important things to remember when posting on this forum is, if you "think" you're an expert on a particular subject.....chances are, there is someone here that IS an expert, and comments will be picked apart faster than a thirsty mammal in a piranha pool.
a lot of people studied with the ones you've read about........studied in the countries of origin and immersed themselves in the culture.
so while it may seem like you're getting attacked........it's usually a friendly mention that maybe you should understand or know the facts before making outrageous statements.

 

[dubljay]

"Being in the thick of things" is subjective. I happen to be "around" as a young man, and had the priveledge of being friends with Ed Parker, which afforded me the opportunity of meeting Bruce Lee. But I was a long way from being the only one. Most of Parker's local black belts met Bruce lee and interacted with him. My info on how long he studied Wing Chun came from his mouth. As far as all this other stuff he studied, who knows. I do know that logic dictates it is of little consequence. We know about Bruce's child acting career alongside his father. No, he wasn't a major actor ever and was completely unknown in this country. Major actors from any market are known throughout the world, even then. As an old fan of Asian films in the sixties and seventies, there were a great many actors whose work was even known to the general public in this country. Bruce Lee was not one of them.

Knowing of his extensive acting as a child, along with his passionate professional dancing, left little time for any serious martial arts training. Even if it did, there was little of the Chinese Sciences taught to children of the culture. We know definitively that Bruce left Hong Kong at 18 years old. All things considered, just how much knowledge and skill do you think this "kid" had when he left? I go back to what Wally Jay said when he met him. "Nice kid but he don't know much." Parker echoed the same sentiments, but raved about his physical potential. The man was a significant figure in martial arts history, but Parker resisted such deification of individuals, as so do I.

Thank you sir. The reason I asked is because I am trying to wade through this thread and sort out the second and third hand hearsay history that is flying around from what actually went on. First hand experience and memory is often a more accurate picture. Again thank you for clearifying for me.

-Josh

 

[Doc]

Greeting Jon: Althoguh Ed Parker and Bruce Lee made a stong bond in the early 60s and both shared knowledge with each other. Bruce Lee was a Major Movy Star before he came to Americe just not in the US. He had been working with Movies from age 6, His father was an actor. Bruce Lee also trained in Koon Long and Shaolin Kung-fu long before he trained in Wing Chun. He just Counts Yip Man and his favorite teacher because these trainings were the foundation to his JKD. BL also trained in Thai Fighting and even got his golden gloves in american boxing.

A great deal of misinformation here.

Before the Internationals where BL demoed his JKD and his 1 inch punch EP had not met him.

So how did he get into Ed Parker's tournament to do a demo? I suggest you stop giving information. You have completely lost credibility in my eyes and clearly do not know what your talking about. It is apparent you have been reading a bunch of something howevver.

 

[Doc]

Doc, do have any input on the following? (I know this is a different Jimmy Woo, just that I have seen similarities between San Soo & Kenpo - wondering if Mr. Parker had any kind of relationship with this Mr. Woo?)

"An old school kung fu master named Ark Wong (r.i.p.), noted along with the grandmaster and Bruce Lee for being one of the first asians to start teaching non-chinese, also taught a five family system called Choy Li Ho Mok Hung (I may have one of the families mixed up, but it's basically the same as San Soo - Choy Li Ho Fut Hung -ours except one of the families we have is substituted with the mok family). Ark Wong came from the same region as Grandmaster Woo, possibly even from the same town. They knew each other well in a friendly rivalry sort of way. This points also to some form of what we know as san soo being practiced in China by other people."

There has always been differences of opinion regarding the origin of what is known as modern San Soo. However Parker knew most everyone including "James Woo" and had an influence on not only the martial arts in general, but the business of the martial arts in particular. San Soo's business model is/was the same as Parker's first martial arts initiated Arthur Murray Dance Studio Model, and continues to promote its very unique training perspective.

 

[Jagdish]

There has always been differences of opinion regarding the origin of what is known as modern San Soo. However Parker knew most everyone including "James Woo" and had an influence on not only the martial arts in general, but the business of the martial arts in particular. San Soo's business model is/was the same as Parker's first martial arts initiated Arthur Murray Dance Studio Model, and continues to promote its very unique training perspective.

Sir:

I would like to ask you which will be the chinese name for splashing hands system taught by Master Ark Y.Wong.

Yours,

Jagdish

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Typical of you you to chime in and take shots because someone's name is mentioned. I suggest you look like crap by my standards. I know its my opinion, just like you have one. Now what has been established? Nothing. I think if you have something negative to say about Edmund you call him up, instead of making such comments on a thread not even about him. It's almost as if you lie in wait for an opprotunity to always have something negative to say. Its getting old.

I didn't bring his name up, Bode did. I've also told Edmund what I think of his Kenpo talent already, face to face. Got anything else? You can tell me at the end of May in person in San Diego, I'll have the pink gi and a big ear.


DarK LorD

 

[Kenpobuff]

Thank you all for the interesting comments related to the questions I originally posted. I hope we can stay on topic on this forum and stop the attacks.

I really only wanted to know if anyone had seen this movie/documentary and what your thoughts were of the claims Mr. Lee presented regarding his JKD. I'm curious if this was produced with the influence of Mrs. Linda Lee and is slanted to her interest in the continued commercialization of the Lee name. Hence the lack of credit given to Mr. Parker and his influence on Bruce and the formulation of JKD.

Seems to me from the different posts and my own opinion is that Mr. Parker was the "chicken" and Mr. Lee the "egg". Without one the other would not have been able to be "hatched" and grow to be the big colorful bird he turned out to be..

Any thoughts?

Steve Goemmel

 

[Bode]

I didn't bring his name up, Bode did.

Yes, I did, but my comments were shifted to the topic of EP Jr skill. Read my previous response.

The point is not whether or not he's good, but whether or not the statement established anything important in the context of this thread. If we want to discuss the skills of an individual then we should shift it to another thread AND invite said individual. Agreed?

Parker or Lee? I think enough has been said on this topic either way. I hope Kenpobuff's questions were answered.

 

[Doc]

I didn't bring his name up, Bode did. I've also told Edmund what I think of his Kenpo talent already, face to face. Got anything else? You can tell me at the end of May in person in San Diego, I'll have the pink gi and a big ear.


DarK LorD

Sorry you're not invited.

 

[Doc]

Sir:

I would like to ask you which will be the chinese name for splashing hands system taught by Master Ark Y.Wong.

Yours,

Jagdish

Don't know. I never heard it referred to in any other way.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Sorry you're not invited.

Hmm, I thought I was, better call Darin and find out now. Besides, aren't you the one always preaching about seeing and feeling what you do, and here I am, willing to be there and you say I'm not invited. Why is that? I always tell my critics to come see and feel what I do, why do you not?


DarK LorD

 

[Doc]

Hmm, I thought I was, better call Darin and find out now. Besides, aren't you the one always preaching about seeing and feeling what you do, and here I am, willing to be there and you say I'm not invited. Why is that?
DarK LorD

Well, so there is no misunderstanding Mr. O'Briant,

I have never ever met or spoke with you. My first contact with you was a number of years ago via an unsolicited negative e-mail you sent to me, when I casually observed on a forum that Larry Tatum, in my opinion, was the best example of what I termed "motion based kenpo" in a post.

In your e-mail response, you preceded to chastise me in a derogatory fashion and insisted I was not paying Larry a compliment. You further attacked me, my kenpo, and insisted that you had been doing SubLevel Four kenpo for a decade, and it was nothing special. You also pointed to a recent Black Belt Magazine article I did and used that as your negative example of my teachings. Additionally, you questioned my academic background and competency, and generally told me I didn't know what I was talking about, and that I had no credibility to have an opinon on the subject. According to you, Larry is THE authority on all subjects relating to any aspect of kenpo, and you need no outside references to understand your art.

Clearly if you feel this way, there is no reason for you to attend any seminars, let alone mine. It is never my intention to attempt to supplant the teachings of Mr. Tatum intentionally or otherwise, or disrupt any students lessons with their teachers.

Most recently during a discussion on this forum, I was attempting to pass some information to posters and readers I felt was germane to the topic at hand. Your injected response was a simple one. You were not interested in anything I had to say, or ever obtaining any knowledge from me, and if you needed to know something, you knew where to get it, and it wasn't from me.

O'Briant on this subject as far as I'm concerned, it is my intent in life to see that you are a man of your word.