Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
My guess...not thoroughly digesting the content thus far provided warrants it.eyebeams said:
D.
Parker or Lee
- Thread starter Kenpobuff
- Start date
D.
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
Newbies with no strudle?Doc said:
SwedishChef
Orange Belt
Well this guy DID complete the wing tsun system in the Leung Ting line (and is teaching it now) as well as studying in Bruce Lee's line from Seattle descendants and Jeet Kune Do. This is why I felt he was qualified to comment. How much wing chun have you had that you would know what its all about?The Kai said:
What is with all the Anon-a-pussies posting in this thread. If you want to be taken seriously take the 2 minutes and fill out your profile. That will let others understand where you are coming from, and might event eliminate a little of the friction.
As to who influenced whom the most the point is pretty well moot since neither Ed Parker nor Bruce Lee are with us anymore to answer who who got what from whom. Luckily we do have people like Doc, Dan Insanto and many others who where there back then, but remember history changes with time, sometimes on purpose, sometimes for convience, and sometimes just over the course of times because the memory plays tricks.
As to who influenced whom the most the point is pretty well moot since neither Ed Parker nor Bruce Lee are with us anymore to answer who who got what from whom. Luckily we do have people like Doc, Dan Insanto and many others who where there back then, but remember history changes with time, sometimes on purpose, sometimes for convience, and sometimes just over the course of times because the memory plays tricks.
evenflow1121
2nd Black Belt
Doc said:
SwedishChef
Orange Belt
Anon-a-pussies? If you're including me in this, some TKD and a mixed kungfu style when I was younger. 3 1/2 years of Sil Lum Chuan Tao KungFu which bears a striking resemblance to the kenpo many of you study. But my background is sort of immaterial to this conversation. I was citing info I got about the core of wing chun and that Bruce Lee had the most important parts of that style down. I don't even care about the original question. They were both great. I wish I could have met them, but hey, born too late. Whatcha gonna do? People need to calm down. Anyone take a qi gong class around here?
My real name is Malcolm Sheppard. I live in Peterborough, ON -- same province as you!Rob Broad said:
I suppose there is supposed to be some particular context where an assertion that Bruce Lee studied Wing Chun for 2 years correlates with the evidence that he did not. Not that he studied other arts as well, but that he did, in fact, have more than two years of Wing Chun under his belt.
Appealing to the original question does not magically render this factual error correct. Vaguely alluding to a special context doesn't do it.
Flaming me and declaring "newb!" does not magically truncate the amount of time Lee trained WC to 2 years.
As for anything else, I think it's pretty clear that the intent of several posts here was to glorify Parker at Lee's expense. This was a bad idea -- even in your own "house." As for me, I've openly said I respect the EPAK lineage. That merely doesn't extend to respecting contrafactual statements.
Just for a little clarification about Bruce Lee's training:
1954-1957
Studied Wing Chun under the instruction of Yip Man where he learned as far as the second hand form and part of the wooden dummy form. Didn't finish the wooden dummy form, learn the third hand form or weapons forms. With Wong Sheun-Leung, William Cheung, and others, made Wing Chun famous in Hong Kong by winning numerous challenge matches against other martial artists.
1957-1958
Continued Wing Chun under the instruction of Wong Shun-Leung.
1957-1959
Continued Wing Chun under the instruction of William Cheung
Thats 5 years... not 2.
And one cool thing about Wing Chun, its form Sui Lim Tao & the wooden man (dummy) it is also designed for self-training .
Notice, all it says about not finishing the wooden dummy or forms; is that he didnt finish them UNDER Yip Man... from '57 to '59 he was still training in Wing Chun.
1954-1957
Studied Wing Chun under the instruction of Yip Man where he learned as far as the second hand form and part of the wooden dummy form. Didn't finish the wooden dummy form, learn the third hand form or weapons forms. With Wong Sheun-Leung, William Cheung, and others, made Wing Chun famous in Hong Kong by winning numerous challenge matches against other martial artists.
1957-1958
Continued Wing Chun under the instruction of Wong Shun-Leung.
1957-1959
Continued Wing Chun under the instruction of William Cheung
Thats 5 years... not 2.
And one cool thing about Wing Chun, its form Sui Lim Tao & the wooden man (dummy) it is also designed for self-training .
Notice, all it says about not finishing the wooden dummy or forms; is that he didnt finish them UNDER Yip Man... from '57 to '59 he was still training in Wing Chun.
I recieved an anonymous ding in my reputation for the above quote with the following comment.Kenpodoc said:
Please explain where I was disrespectful. Hollywood is an "old boys club" and talent alone won't get you in. It is well documented that Mr. Parker helped introduce Bruce Lee to people who could help his show business career.
Jeff
(The Anon-a-pus signature is my addition.)
evenflow1121
2nd Black Belt
I was not alive when either of these two individuals were training together, nor was I alive when Mr. Lee passed away. I was alive and fortunate enough to see Mr. Parker at a seminar one time about year before he died. And let me make a quick point about this to some of the MA new comers--there are a lot of people that have taken pictures with MA pioneers like Mr. Parker cut their pictures from the waist up and then claim that they are direct Parker bb, dont be fooled by this tactic, any yellow belt can usually take a pic with an MA pioneer and then alter the pic from the waist up.
Ok didnt mean to troll there, that just came to mind, because I know a lot of people these days are wrongfully claiming to have been direct BB of Mr Parker. As for Bruce Lee or Ed Parker, not to take anything away from Bruce Lee, its obvious that Bruce Lee's contribution to the MA's does not have a price, but Lee would not have been a household name without Parker's help. So, somewhat biased as it may seem, I must say Ed Parker.
Ok didnt mean to troll there, that just came to mind, because I know a lot of people these days are wrongfully claiming to have been direct BB of Mr Parker. As for Bruce Lee or Ed Parker, not to take anything away from Bruce Lee, its obvious that Bruce Lee's contribution to the MA's does not have a price, but Lee would not have been a household name without Parker's help. So, somewhat biased as it may seem, I must say Ed Parker.
SwedishChef
Orange Belt
Can anyone translate this for me?The Kai said:
kenpo_cory
Purple Belt
SwedishChef said:
Everyone wing chung tonight???????????????
http://www.tracyskenpokarate.com/Kenpo%20vs.%20American%20Kenpo.htm
"Parker was promoted by Chow to 1st degree so that he could teach on the mainland. There is much speculation on whether his 3rd from Chow was real or forged due to the fact that Chow claimed he didn't talk to Parker after giving him a 1st degree black"
The story then goes that Parker, in 1964, went from 3rd to 6th Dan in a hotel room in Long Beach before the tournament because that would be the rank suitable for one hosting the tournament.
"Parker was promoted by Chow to 1st degree so that he could teach on the mainland. There is much speculation on whether his 3rd from Chow was real or forged due to the fact that Chow claimed he didn't talk to Parker after giving him a 1st degree black"
The story then goes that Parker, in 1964, went from 3rd to 6th Dan in a hotel room in Long Beach before the tournament because that would be the rank suitable for one hosting the tournament.
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