opinions of cold steel japanese swords

[Flying Crane]

You guys who have affordable, but quality shinken, who is the maker?

 

[hogstooth]

http://www.coldsteel.com/

i realize these aren't super duper authentic traditional katana, but if you want a sword for under a grand that cuts well & won't break easily, are these a good buy? what is the general opinion?

thanks,

jf

They are not very well balanced. But yes they do cut.

 

[nitflegal]

I largely concur with that, nitflegal but would add that you do get what you pay for and my Hon Jidai Koshirae from Tozando is not at all 'whippy', unlike some of the lower end iaito (even the base level Tozando ones have a fair amount of 'kipper' genes in them ).

Sadly, as far as I can tell, they don't make the model any more. I shall have to research their current lines to see what the equivalent is - essentially anything that they say is recommended for Dan grades will be fine if others want to have a look before I get the chance.

Also, a great proportion of the cheap steel iaito that aren't monstrously tip-heavy have their balance point too near the hilt besides being too weighty - when it comes down to it, if you're serious about Japanese swordsmanship then you need to be looking at a mid-to-high end sword made in the country from which the art originated.

Weight is not always bad of course, it depends on the individual. For example, the shinken I mentioned before that is owned by a fellow student is too light for me, despite being otherwise superb.

If it was easy, everyone would do it .

Can't argue with anything that you wrote. I think a lot of it is that you truly do get what you pay for. I still don't own a katana at this point because it just doesn't make sense to purchase one before I can afford a first-rate one. For training tools, I do think that a steel sword gives very different feedback than a bokken or aluminum iaito. I could be completely imagining it but even the thicker iaito that don't resemble rubber bands just feel off to me. That said, I have a cheapy aluminum iaito as they can give great feedback on proper cutting dynamics; if your cut is anything but dead straight the thing starts twisting in your hand as the blades whips about.

I have to admit, the balance of the Hanwei blunt steel katana does feel decent to me. Not great and not especially lively but for an entry level practice tool it's a pretty good deal, IMHO.

Matt

 

[jonpalombi]

So is the definition of a Shinken, sort of on the lines of a "real weapon"?, or is there something else that differentiates a Shinken from a real katana?

Can a Chinese-made weapon be a shinken, even if it is a katana clone?

Hey Michael,
Shinken are katana/ "real weapons", insofar as their ability to cut and/or kill (a tatami mat or a living opponent). Both iaito and shinken are katanas, yet, do they resemble historic examples closely enough to be considered authentic? Are they forged in the same traditional manner? Your point is well taken. Based on my own limited experience with antique katanas, and I've been around the block, contemporary examples do closely mirror their genuine prototypes. Especially those made in Japan. Now this is of primary significance, only fools and madmen choose to exercise cutting practice with antique swords, for a number of reasons. Fortunately, historical Japan left many superior examples of swords/swordsmanship and philosophy. This sets a definite parameter. As far as Chinese katanas and to their validity, I have left my backyard littered with tatami shards in their wake. Is the lofty status of katana only to be applied to swords made in Japan? There are quality cutting swords being forged in Korea and China, these days. How they hold-up in comparison to their Japanese counterparts is the vital question. Some day I hope to procure a Japanese-made shinken (when I can afford to). Until then, I practice as I can, with what I have at hand.

Later, Jon Palombi

 

[Charles Mahan]

You guys who have affordable, but quality shinken, who is the maker?

I don't know if you would call it affordable or not. I purchased my shinken from Scott Irey sensei in 2003. He got it from Swordstore and mounted an antique tsuba on it. Cost me about $1800. This sword is clearly from a different smith than whoever is making their current line. Mine weighs about 950 grams or so. Last time one of our students ordered from Swordstore and specified a maximum weight of around 1000 grams, the one that was delivered was well over 1300 grams. It happened to more than one student, so I reckon they don't carry anything lighter. Of course we haven't ordered anything from them in a couple of years, so perhaps it is different now. Hard to say.

A couple of students have recently ordered swords from Mugendo Budogu and they've been suitable training weapons
http://budogu.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page19.html

You should seek further opinions if you are looking for something to do tameshigiri with, but it is suitable for regular iai training. Assuming you are suitable for regular iai training with a shinken that is.

While it is true that a lot of subpar shinken are coming out of China, there are a few places where you can get some pretty decent training tools. Mugendo Budogu is one, Kim Taylor's Seidokai site is another. As always, it helps to have access to credible reviews.

 

[Ninjamom]

From everyone I have heard that has one they all comment that they are very beefy. That is that they are very heavy.

This is what I have heard, too. In fact, I have heard them described as "Like cutting with an axe", and as "A repetitive-use shoulder injury looking for a place to happen."

..... they are too heavy and the balance is just plain weird. ....absurdly massive and poorly balanced. Very tip-heavy. ....... And as far as chopping wood, I already have an axe. .....
>
>
You get what you pay for, so it's kind of a balancing act. Unfortunately, only rich folks can afford the best and most correctly smithed cutting skinken. Thus, the Chinese alternatives...


Just my two cents worth, Jon Palombi

And a very good two-cents worth, sir! :asian:

 

[jonpalombi]

Hey Ninjamom,
Say, do Haedong Gumdo practitioners strictly adhere to cutting with Korean-forged jingum or is it acceptable to use Japanese-style shinken? And if so, how are the many forges in China, offering katanas at affordable price-points (like Hanwei, Huanuo, Last Legend, Dynasty Forge and Cold Steel), viewed by the HDGD folks and even the KSA community at large? Don't get me wrong, I love the jingum promoted by Martial Art Swords. I just have a tough time setting that kind of money aside for another cutting sword (these days). Once upon a time it was within my grasp. Once upon a time... Sorry, I digress. Of course, you get what you pay for. For those of you who haven't checked-out their website; http://www.martialartswords.com/index.php?cPath=2_13

Another question I am wondering about is this, do any contemporary schools of Korean swordsmanship use pre-JSA styled sabers? You know, like the single-handed gum Bruce Sims is often referring to, God bless him. Certainly by the time Japan was invading Korea (1592-1597), warriors like Admiral Yi Soon Shin carried two-handed gum. While the martial-mechanics illustrated in the Muye Dobo Tongji show both single and double-handed methods of swordsmanship, the sword being illustrated is a two-handed, Japanese-influenced saber. Much like the contemporary jingum. Also, is a kagum the same thing as a Japanese iaito? Do Korean schools practice solo sword-drawing, like unto Japanese iaido? Sorry about the 20 questions, after all, we are supposed to be critiquing Cold Steel cutting swords. So where was I? Oh yes, and I still say Hanwei, Last Legend and Huanuo/Dynasty Forge are much better investments. That is, for Chinese versions of Japanese katanas. Anyone out there have any suggestions for Japanese shinken? How do they perform/out-perform the Chinese knock-offs? Has someone had any experience with Both Japanese and Chinese cutters? Or even better, Japanese, Chinese and/or Korean cutters?

Be well and practice often, Jon Palombi

 

[Ninjamom]

Hey, Jon!

I responded to your questions as best as I could on a new thread here so as not to derail the current thread.

Good to see you in the neighborhood!

 

[krieger]

My friend has a pair of CS swords which he adores. I do agree that they are more on the heavy side but I figured that came from the thickness of the blade.

Does anyone have any experience with these swords:

http://www.handmadesword.com/152-3.html

I got that particular set for graduation and have been left wondering if it was real or fake. I took it apart and to my satisfaction it was full tang. However, I still don't know if the quality is good. It's not very sharp either (even though I was warned it was D But it says the edge unsharpened...I just need to get it sharp then. Now, I'm not 100% sure if they purchased the sword directly from this sight but it's the same set.

 

[Sukerkin]

Going by what I can see on the website, they'll be okay for use as a cheap, rather heavy, iaito; altho' I clearly can't speak as to their feel or balance.

It does seem that they are not meant to be sharpened and given that they are made of an unspecified stainless steel alloy I certainly would not recommend doing any cutting with them (stainless being prone to shattering when used for sword blades).

Compare their product to something like:

http://www.tozandoshop.com/Tozando_Custom_Workshop_Iaito_p/070-it999.htm

or

http://www.jidai.jp/1052003.asp

 

[Aikicomp]

My friend has a pair of CS swords which he adores. I do agree that they are more on the heavy side but I figured that came from the thickness of the blade.

Does anyone have any experience with these swords:

http://www.handmadesword.com/152-3.html

I got that particular set for graduation and have been left wondering if it was real or fake. I took it apart and to my satisfaction it was full tang. However, I still don't know if the quality is good. It's not very sharp either (even though I was warned it was D But it says the edge unsharpened...I just need to get it sharp then. Now, I'm not 100% sure if they purchased the sword directly from this sight but it's the same set.

What you got was an Iaito which means it is dull for practice purposes and should not be sharpened. It's stainless (therefore brittle do not cut with it it may shatter), blade length would be OK for me (I'm 5'8") maybe a bit short, blade weight is 2.5 lbs not to heavy.

Are you studying Iaido or did you get it to have it so to speak. I can not remember what you said you wanted it for.

Michael