I want to buy a sword. What brand and size should I get?

[Indagator]

Thanks for the interesting points raised here. Definitely a few things to think about.

Ken Morgan, the particular sword I have been looking at (the Hanwei one) is pretty much the same as one a friend of mine has which he has used for about 9 years without any problems. He mostly uses it for cutting, although for myself I basically intend to be using one for solo training, practising kata &c. with only a small focus on cutting.
Interesting point about the >$500 range being all wall-hangers. I was under the impression that SS blades were for wall hanging but carbon bladed swords were suitable to train with?
My trouble is I don't have a large amount of theoretical knowledge when it comes to the swords themselves, their construction and the various manufacturers reputations &c.
And yes, of course I would never use anything other than a bokken for training with another partner. Not sure why you thought I would have...?
The sort of price ranges you are pointing to simply cannot be afforded by those in the working class, although the used sword idea sounds like a possibility.
Trouble is, like I said, I don't really want to rule out kenjutsu from my training but at this stage it is looking like I may have to - aside, of course, from what we train in class with the bokken.

Mr Parker the guitar analogy was also quite good - although worth mentioning is that my Asian-made single inverted cone resonator actually produces a nicer sound than the authentic Dobro which I measured it up against - with an $800 price difference lol.
I have only played guitar for about 18 years though and of those 18 years only about half was spent in classical training - hence why I moved on to the blues.
I digress - my point is that would this mean it is still possible to get a decent sword for the purposes I am looking at (ie Bujinkan kenjutsu &c.) if one knew what one was looking for. For example, I could always ask the Shidoshi what he thought about a particular sword before buying it.

Little confused now tbh.

Pgsmith thanks for that informative post.

 

[Indagator]

Just to clarify, the prices I am referring to are in US dollars - is this the same for everybody else?

Ken Morgan the sword I have been looking at retails at $375.00 but through the wholesale importer it would be $120.00 does this still mean it would be no good?

The same seller also currently is offering a handmade zatoichi shirasaya that goes for about $650.00 normally, for around $200.00 at the moment.

I think he maybe is looking to offload some stuff or something, I did consider that he may be scamming but other people I know have dealt with his business in the past and seems okay...

Bill Mattocks the white sword on the link you provided actually looks really nice, visually speaking. I don't think it would be worth buying of course lol. Just the colour of it &c. look quite attractive.

 

[Ken Morgan]

A sword used primarily for cutting is different from one used primarily for iaido. They don’t have to be, but they have kind of evolved that way. A heavier cutting sword will seriously affect your ability to do kata correctly, the weight is wrong, the balance is off, and as such it will pull on your body in ways it shouldn’t. The stresses your body and your sword go under in the practice of kata or cutting are different, a sword that holds up well in one, may not hold up well in another.

$500 is an arbitrary number, but I find it to be reasonably true.

The whole secret to picking a sword is to test drive them all and see what works for you.

BTW, I wouldn’t use a sharp blade until after I had more than a few years into an art.

 

[Indagator]

Thanks for that info!

 

[kip42]

A valient effort, but I'm not really just going to let this one slide....



Kip.

For the love of all good, holy, and sweetly spiced in the world, what on earth are you doing?!?!? You have posted this type of question a number of times, and each time been told how far off you are, only to have you come back and do it all again! For crying out loud, stop, okay? To kill this idea of yours, let's rip it apart, shall we?



There isn't a "traditional Bujinkan sword length", the standard bokken is used in classes, you have been told this before. Don't ask again.



The only Japanese swords with double edges were incredibly rare, and nothing to do with any of the systems in the Bujinkan. The most famous is known as the Kogarasu Maru, and is a single Tachi, rather than a type. This question is based in fantasy, don't ask again.



Having the money to "buy a sword now, and one later" just sounds bizarre. Especially when you then follow up by stating that you know you have no reason or the requisite skill and experience to justify having one. I advise re-examining your priorities and putting your money towards something that could actually help you, such as actual training tools, training aids, reference material, and so on. Your instructor should be the best person to ask for such advice as to what you should get, and in what order.



For the love of sandwiches....

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89440

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91850

You are asking the same thing you have asked and been answered on before, the entire premise of your question is based in pure fantasy, and has no reality to it whatsoever. Don't ask it again.



You have absolutely no idea what on earth you're talking about, don't ask this again.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong here, but I'm starting to think that frankly, you're just here to troll, asking about movie-fantasy ideas in order to rile us up (seems to get a certain reaction out of me when you keep going with it, so well done if that's it). You don't listen to the answers you are provided with, you ask the same things again and again, disappear for a few months only to return with the same questions again.... honestly, if you're not trolling, then you really need to get your head out of the fantasy. And listen to what you're being told.

Right now there is no reason to encourage you or answer your questions, especially not to provide any recommendations as you show no ability to discern what is good or bad.

Do not buy a sword.

Stop living in fantasy land.

Okay?

I see where you are coming from but still want to own a sword just to have I suppose. I am going to go with the Cold Steel Warrior Series. So basically the Bujinkan uses the regular Katana as their sword? I thought I read somewhere that the handle was shorter or longer to make it look slower than it was.

Was it called the Togakure Ryu Ninjato? How long was the blade and handle of the traditional ninja sword? I just kind of want one and as dumb as it sounds would be neat to have something battle proven. I wont train with a real sword but I see it as training with a plastic gun and not owning a real one.

 

[Namii]

My Shinken is made in China, so no elitism there. I’d rather use my Chinese shinken then my Japanese iaito. I use the Chinese blade because the balance is damn near perfect. It cost me $800, but even after 7+ years all the fittings are nice and tight, and I can swing it easily all day.

May I ask what your shinken is? is is a production or a custom ?

 

[Supra Vijai]

I see where you are coming from but still want to own a sword just to have I suppose. I am going to go with the Cold Steel Warrior Series. So basically the Bujinkan uses the regular Katana as their sword? I thought I read somewhere that the handle was shorter or longer to make it look slower than it was.

Was it called the Togakure Ryu Ninjato? How long was the blade and handle of the traditional ninja sword? I just kind of want one and as dumb as it sounds would be neat to have something battle proven. I wont train with a real sword but I see it as training with a plastic gun and not owning a real one.

If you're not going to train with it, I assume it's to look pretty? Why waste hundreds on a poorly made blade when you can get a 3 piece wall hanger display set complete with sword rack off Ebay for about $150? I think you're mixing up your terminology btw, the ninjato was the straight bladed ninja sword which *surprise surprise* didn't exist they way they are meant to have outside of Hollywood and fantasy.

The length of the traditional sword varies based on it's user. Your height determines how long your blade will be. Generally say 2 to 2.5 feet of blade and 1 foot of handle. But again if you're not going to be training with the live blade then that doesn't matter, really.

 

[Ken Morgan]

May I ask what your shinken is? is is a production or a custom ?

Production.
This is what I have here, http://sdksupplies.netfirms.com/cat_chinshin.htm
In fact I think it may very well be my sword in the photo....

 

[Namii]

I love how he replies to the questions. Very nice looking sword. I hope to see a few examples at the Iaido seminar I'm attending next month. SDK and a couple others are going to have stuff for sale there. So hopefully Ill be able to feel how awesome the balance is.
I totally agree with the different sword for kata and cutting.

 

[kip42]

I want it to be completely functional. I am not at a skill level to train with live blades but want one. I feel that I should have one since I am training to use one. It is not for looks, not for training, but for knowing I have an actual sword since I spend time learning how to use a Bokken. What length blade and handle do most of the guys use in the Bujinkan?

 

[Thesemindz]

I want it to be completely functional. I am not at a skill level to train with live blades but want one. I feel that I should have one since I am training to use one. It is not for looks, not for training, but for knowing I have an actual sword since I spend time learning how to use a Bokken. What length blade and handle do most of the guys use in the Bujinkan?

I'm confused. Your profile says you are training in "Beginning MMA" but here you say you are training to use a sword, which would make the UFC more interesting but as far as I know isn't a legal technique. You say you are spending time learning how to use a bokken, and seem specifically interested in the sword work practiced in the Bujinkan, yet you clearly don't train in the Bujinkan because then you wouldn't have to ask a bunch of strangers what their training is like.

What exactly is it you are training in? And with whom? I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from here. You say you want a live blade, which is fine if that's important to you. Go buy one. But obviously you aren't getting any support here, so why keep asking?

The people here who actually know what they're talking about when it comes to sword work have been unanimous in telling you to knock it the hell off. Whether that's good advice or just artistic elitism I'll leave for you to decide for yourself. But nobody seems interested in helping you on your quest. It seems like their position is pretty clear. You are too ignorant to even ask the right questions, you have repeatedly referred to ninja weapons that don't even exist, and everyone with any real knowledge sees you as a danger to yourself and others.

If you want a sword, buy one. They're easy enough to find. Please don't swing it around when there are other people in the area. In fact, I'd recommend not swinging it around at all. And never, ever, train with live weapons when you're training with a partner. You will kill someone.

Good luck. There's plenty of swords on eBay. You could also try your local flea markets. I found a WWII japanese officer's sword and a cavalry sabre at one just last week. But I think your questions about fictional ninja swords have probably taken you about as far as you're going to go.


-Rob

 

[kip42]

I have studied a few arts over the years. I have been training in the Bujinkan on and off for going on a year.

 

[Thesemindz]

I have studied a few arts over the years. I have been training in the Bujinkan on and off for going on a year.

Then I would recommend you ask your instructor what kind of sword you should have.


-Rob

 

[Supra Vijai]

Then I would recommend you ask your instructor what kind of sword you should have.


-Rob

That's the running theme of the advise presented countless times across a number of threads (read all) by Kip but here we are...

 

[Thesemindz]

That's the running theme of the advise presented countless times across a number of threads (read all) by Kip but here we are...

After reading his other threads and posts I'm pretty sure he's not a serious martial artist. At best, he's been training at home with "techniques" he picks up from tv and books. At worst, he's a complete fraud who's either trolling or delusional.

I haven't seen a single thing in any of his posts that makes me think he's legitimate. Maybe I'm wrong. But when I asked him what exactly he trains in he gave me the old "this and that." In my experience, that's code for "I'm full of ****."

I had a guy I worked with years ago who found out I did karate and he walked up to me and said, "I hear you do karate, I'm a black belt myself." Being genuinely interested I asked, "Oh really? What art?" To which he replied, "Oh, uh, it's kind of um, you know, a bunch of things I've picked up over the years."

You know what I say when someone asks me what I train in? Kenpo. I don't stutter and I don't hesitate and I don't say stuff, or things, or this and that. It's easy for me, because I've been doing kenpo for over fifteen years. When someone can't answer that simple question they aren't usually studying, they're usually lying.

Quick. What do you study?

See.


-Rob

 

[Supra Vijai]

After reading his other threads and posts I'm pretty sure he's not a serious martial artist. At best, he's been training at home with "techniques" he picks up from tv and books. At worst, he's a complete fraud who's either trolling or delusional.

I haven't seen a single thing in any of his posts that makes me think he's legitimate. Maybe I'm wrong. But when I asked him what exactly he trains in he gave me the old "this and that." In my experience, that's code for "I'm full of ****."

I had a guy I worked with years ago who found out I did karate and he walked up to me and said, "I hear you do karate, I'm a black belt myself." Being genuinely interested I asked, "Oh really? What art?" To which he replied, "Oh, uh, it's kind of um, you know, a bunch of things I've picked up over the years."

You know what I say when someone asks me what I train in? Kenpo. I don't stutter and I don't hesitate and I don't say stuff, or things, or this and that. It's easy for me, because I've been doing kenpo for over fifteen years. When someone can't answer that simple question they aren't usually studying, they're usually lying.

Quick. What do you study?

See.


-Rob

Ninjutsu!

No fair if you count the delayed reply, I'm at work so replying whenever I get a chance

Honestly I have no doubts Kip probably does or did study in the Bujinkan (or any school) somewhere in dribs and drabs but as you've seen for yourself, the main issue seems to be asking a bunch of strangers on a forum anonymously for advice that realistically only your instructor can give you. As for giving, or not giving straight answers as the case may be it's a vicious cycle where the people who know what they're talking about (and I don't count myself among them just yet) keep trying to help and the questions keep coming.

All the best to Kip though if he does pursue this little venture and buys himself a Shinken. As for the standard length, quick google search for the term "standard length for a shinken in the Bujinkan" gave me 10,900 results in 0.nothing seconds so more than enough info there.

 

[Tanaka]

To be honest Kip is probably looking for the "Oniyuri" made by Cheness.
He most likely heard it talked about on youtube.

 

[Supra Vijai]

To be honest Kip is probably looking for the "Oniyuri" made by Cheness.
He most likely heard it talked about on youtube.

What makes you suggest that one? Just out of curiosity

 

[Indagator]

Kip,

If you're going to get live blade you're gonna get live blade, right? Nothing anybody says to you is going to stop you. At least this is the way you hvae presented yourself.

Now, this may not neccesarily be that bad of a thing. It comes down to you. Silly question but how do you currently handle sharp objects that you are familiar with?
And how sharp are they?

I am relatively new to Japanese sword work, and not much more experienced with the claymore.

However, I am a crazy mad, rabid keen bowhunter. And the bluntest of my broadheads will at the very least shave the hair from your arm or leg. Some of the better quality ones that I have I managed to get to a sharpness where you wouldn't even screw them into your shaft by hand - I use a tool. This is what I call "scary sharp" and I have had some serious cuts when I first got the hang of honeing, sharpening and stropping them to this point - cuts that I never realised I had even made until I saw the blood. That's sharp, yeah, when you don't even feel a serious cut.

My knives vary - from my bush knife which has a deeper whetstoned edge but less of a stropped finish, to skinning and fleshing knives that are right up there with the broadheads.

Now, I am just a mad keen hunter, who made my tools this way for functional purpose as it serves me better when I use them.

If you go out, and buy a quality live blade sword from somebody who has spent decades dedicated to the arts, made with an expectation that those who use it will have had significant training experience with bokken and practical blades, what kind of edge, hone and finish do you think that friggin thing is gonna have, man?

I get that you may want one, and heck for all that people give their advice I'd buy a decent shinken if the opportunity came up on a good deal and I had the cash ready to go. That being said, I have some years experience handling some pretty sharp objects and have an understanding and appreciation of what they are capableof. Couple this with how long a katana blade is in comparison to machetes, knives, or broadheads and a weapon like that commands some serious respect.

I can't post pictures in my account but if I could I would show you some of the nasty scars I have on my hands and one really ugly one on my leg, as well as the damage I have done to 150-200kg animals with a mere 150 grains of sharpened carbon steel. I can't but I'm sure Google will have plenty of examples - so if you're going to get a live blade just remember what sharpened carbon steel is capable of, and that you must respect that weapon. Treat it like a toy and it'll treat you like hot butter...


Just my .02 fwiw, and I say it with all the best ineterests.

 

[Stealthy]

Couple this with how long a katana blade is in comparison to machetes, knives, or broadheads and a weapon like that commands some serious respect.

QFT

I used to play with knives extensively as a kid and the respect I have for edged weapons can not be conveyed in words(I've had a finger hanging by a flap of skin and geysers coming out of my foot).

In short, no matter what you think you know about them they will cut you, guaranteed.

If you do not understand this then you have no business playing with a Katana as your lessons will cost you dearly.

My shinken rarely comes off the rack and never to be played with.

Edited: It just came to mind that I have probably been cut by every single edged weapon I have ever owned and believe me I have owned a few. As an electrician I need to use a knife virtually everyday and even after all these years I still cut myself. The worst ever was not by me but happened while I was at work and what happened is this poor guys tip snapped off, flew up and hit him in the eye. I didn't know the guy previously but struth did I feel for him.