Ontario prostitution laws could be lifted Saturday

[CoryKS]

So, were they? Lifted Saturday, that is.

 

[Scott T]

So, were they? Lifted Saturday, that is.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/897750--no-prostitution-free-for-all-this-weekend

 

[teekin]

Blade, dear I lived with 2 call girls. No one held a gun to their heads. They were both young, pretty, and very very fun to be around. They worked 3-4 nights a week, had regulars they saw and some new guys too but did the job because of the money. It allowed them the freedom to live the lifestyle they wanted, They Wanted. I choose to work 6 days a week and 8x the hours becasue that's who I was. I also didn't like being touched. But the girls choose it. If the girls were able to ply their trade legally it would have been a lot safer. A bad date who decided to get rough would go to jail not just rely on street justice to send a message. The gangs and pimps would be out, the 14 year old sniffers would be a rarity, the girls who are beaten and bought and sold like dogs would have no value and would fade away. Sex is allways going to be for sale as there there will allways be demand. It's that damn biological imperative thing. It's not called the oldest proffesion for nothing. I'd rather see it legalised than pushed further underground. It's not the men that suffer when the cops crack down, you know that don't you?

lori

 

[Blade96]

Wait a minute, I do not think that not wanting to see this disgusting thing legalized and admitting the exploitation and objectifying that's in this means I am diminishing anybody's intelligence and capabilities. I also dont believe helping women and people in general become sex workers is empowering, Its disempowering.

 

[Makalakumu]

Wait a minute, I do not think that not wanting to see this disgusting thing legalized and admitting the exploitation and objectifying that's in this means I am diminishing anybody's intelligence and capabilities. I also dont believe helping women and people in general become sex workers is empowering, Its disempowering.

Exploitation and objectification are in the eyes of the beholder and they can also just be tools of good marketing. If a woman chooses to do this, knowing the risks and benefits, who are you to say that she is not empowering herself and must somehow be protected from herself by banning her choice? The underlying premise is that women are weak and must be protected. Why do you think that most prostitution laws come out of heavily patriarchal and sexist religions? IMO, the philosophy inherit in both is consistent with Original Sin.

If you think selling your body for money is gross, fine, don't do it. Your choice empowers you. If a woman has a top shelf body she wants to sell for $5000 to a customer of her choosing, that choice empowers her...because it's hers. The moment you try to control her choice, you fall into the old fashioned sexist traps. Sexual freedoms are related to a host of other freedoms women have had to fight for. Just think about it.

 

[teekin]

Blade Duck, your heart is in the right place but the world is much more shades of grey than black and white. It is telling that a substantial portion of the money the girls made went to feed addictions that bought their psychies relief from the demons that haunted them, albiet temporary. The men used the women and the women used the men. Call it Symbiotic or Parasatic, semantics won't stop prostitution. I care that the women who engage in this trade either through their own choice or nessessity are as safe as possible. I also want the low life, scum sucking parasitic pimps to be Obsolete! Legalising it would go a long long way to make this happen.

lori

 

[Tez3]

History shows that there's many women who've used their bodies to gain power, wealth or whatever they wanted and that they have done this willingly. There's many different ways of prostituting oneself. Women have always married for money, in the Victorian age it was common for young wealthy American women to marry into the impoverished British aristocracy. These were often not 'love' matches but an exchange, albeit where the man receives the money but the woman gains a title. It was done for gain though.
Courtesans have been common throughout history as well, in some places gaining respectablilty and certainly a lot of power. Royalty and rulers have always had their mistresses, a habit that continues to this day in many places. Money may not change hands but privilege and good living certainly comes with this 'position'.

Selling sex for money isn't the worse thing one can do, it's often at least an honest exchange. As many of us have been saying there's no absolutes here, it is not black and white, it's naive to think so. There's a need to get rid of pimps, the drug dealers etc and there's a need NOT to criminalise the women who for whatever reason sell their company or sex.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

There was some Roman Empress who used to head down to the brothels and compete with the whores to see who could satisfy the most men. Don't recall her name but I heard she was quite good at what she did.

 

[Scott T]

There was some Roman Empress who used to head down to the brothels and compete with the whores to see who could satisfy the most men. Don't recall her name but I heard she was quite good at what she did.

Messalina. Supposedly had a record of finishing off 25 men in 24 hours.

As the term used was 'satisfying', I'm assuming that means multiple times with each partner.

 

[Makalakumu]

Selling sex for money isn't the worse thing one can do, it's often at least an honest exchange.

This point bears repeating. All to often in our society, we transact with all kinds of underlying fraud. Trading sex for money doesn't have to harm anyone. It becomes harmful when it is done on the black market however.

 

[CoryKS]

This point bears repeating. All to often in our society, we transact with all kinds of underlying fraud. Trading sex for money doesn't have to harm anyone. It becomes harmful when it is done on the black market however.

Not so much "harm", but it will most likely have consequences.

Let's say that they repeal the prostitution laws. It's licensed, taxed, regulated for safety, etc. Supply lowers the cost to a reasonable price. For the price comparable to that of a typical night out, men can write a check and do their thing without legal or moral recrimination. What are the effects on the dating environment? How does this affect the behavior of men who no longer need be concerned about getting a woman to accept him? How does this affect the behavior of women who are no longer the gatekeepers to something that men want very much?

I suspect that much of the high-minded talk about "exploitation" and "objectification" are mere smoke-screens to hide the fear that, absent the need for physical gratification, men's attention to non-professional women will wane. Whether it actually will, I don't know. IIUC, there are countries in Europe where this is legal. I think maybe The Netherlands? Maybe our European contributors might be able to tell us what effect if any it might have on social dynamics.

 

[Tez3]

I work on the biggest army garrison in Europe, and believe it or not we have almost no prostitutes working here and none visible certainly. The reason for this is because of the way people are these days it's easy to have a one night stand. The girls are as happy with this type of arrangement as the lads. I'm not going to comment on the morality or the consequences of one night stands other than saying it's not my thing but those concerned don't seem bothered by it.
Cory, I don't think the guys here see sex the way you suggested but I think we are maybe more open about it here. No one worries about being accepted etc, thats what alcohol is for, you got out, get drunk, have a curry or kebab then a shag and go home. That's the norm here, if you're unlucky or lucky you get a fight too, that's night out in a british town or city.
Prostitutes are legal here as long as you don't kerb crawl for them, it doesn't affect dating etc. Having sex will someone you'd paid to do with you isn't what most men are looking for, the type of man that used prostitutes when it's illegal are still the ones using them when it's not. The demographic doesn't change.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Could just go the Japanese route, marry a RealDoll.

 

[Scott T]

Could just go the Japanese route, marry a RealDoll.

LMAO!

I'll go you one further

(from 2008)

By: Stefania Moretti, CTV.ca News
Date: Sat. Jun. 28 2008 7:16 AM ET

Sex not as exciting as it used to be? Getting turned on may be as easy as flicking a switch on your lifelike programmable robot.

Robots will make attractive companions capable of fulfilling us sexually and emotionally by 2050, thanks to advances in their appearance, senses, personalities and capacity to fall in love, says artificial intelligence expert David Levy.

"There is love and there is sex. Sex, I think, will happen much sooner," Levy told CTV.ca.
He figures it will take roughly 40 years for artificial intelligence to develop to the point where robots are fully capable of human interactions such as reading gestures, conversing, and even getting intimate.

They will also be attractive with realistic features such as soft skin and touchable hair, says Levy. Made-to-order robots could even be designed to look like your favourite Hollywood star or high school crush, though there is no telling how much custom orders would cost.

In his most recent book, "Love and Sex With Robots," Levy says human relationships with androids, humanoids, fembots, malebots, intelligent machines, Stepford wives, or any other name they may adopt, are "inevitable." He arrives at this conclusion after studying historical relationships between people and their machines, news in the field of robotics, and not to mention the booming sex toy industry pulsing with vibrators and life-size dolls.
Levy, who is currently wrapping up a Canadian tour including a stop in Toronto at the IdeaCity conference, expects his book to be met with a certain degree of doubt and even hostility, but says those reactions demonstrate a lack of vision.

He points to Japanese and South Korean engineers developing robots capable of caring for their country's aging populations.

Relationships with robots might be predictable, but they don't have to be, explains Levy, who lives with his wife in London, U.K.

"A good relationship needs some sort of friction," he said.

"If you want to, you can have a robot that is completely faithful, or you can have a robot that is programmed to be completely faithful so long as you're completely faithful, or a robot that strays every now and again. It just depends on what you want."

The book also highlights the endless downloading capabilities of robots. Getting kinky would be easy with a mate who could easily call up data on India's ancient sex manual, the Kama Sutra.
Levy wouldn't exclude robots from child rearing either. "You can't envisage traditional reproduction with a robot, but technology will develop and there will be some sort of process that involves a robot contributing to the personality and psychological makeup of a child," he said.

A robot that designs new robots is just one kind of reproduction that Levy suggests is possible.

"Love and Sex With Robots" is a "milestone" for opening the public's eyes about the future, says Levy, president of the International Gaming Association and leader of the 1997 Loebner Prize for Artificial Intelligence winning team for conversational software.

Although he is not currently developing a robot of his own, Levy would consider offering his AI and programming expertise to the right team of engineers if they came along.
Levy admits a future filled with robot lovers will be complicated.

"I accept the inevitability that with any kind of technological advance, there is going to be good things and bad things about it. I don't think we can really do anything to stop that.
Although sexy robots may seem titillating, an unexpected software glitch would surely spoil the mood. Remember, viruses plague even the most sophisticated computer programs.

Heh. I'll take Six!

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SciTech/20080626/robot_love_080626/


I wonder if his wife's name is prototype LB-33?

Oh, and those realDolls? H.O.T.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The Japanese dolls are even better. One guy in Japan owns about 100+ of them I saw.

Ok, what do sex-dolls have to do with prostitution?

Lonely men in Japan who are too shy or socially inept to date, turn to dolls for 'companionship', often in similar ways as men (and women) in the US/Canada turn to 'workers' for their needs. The major unifying point is again that need for sex. Keep prostitution illegal, people will still look for outlets. Legalize it, and you can monitor and control it somewhat.

 

[Scott T]

Hell, I'd pimp out a few fembots!

 

[Blade96]

guess i done my bit here.......

six pages of a discussion and a nice little debate.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

**wonders how much trouble he'd get into to suggesting a Girls of MartialTalk swimwear calender.....or a Guys of MT bikini calender....*

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye, Blade, it has been a productive discourse I do agree. Some very imteresting points of view to ponder :nods:.

As to Bob's idea, whilst there are indeed some lovely examples of human kind, male and female, amongst our membership, it cannot be gainsayed that many of them have spouses. Now some of those spouses might be of the mind-set to 'share' but I'll bet that some are not :lol:.

 

[Blade96]

bob is funny