Ontario prostitution laws could be lifted Saturday
- Thread starter Scott T
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Men and women "need" sex. It's one of those 'built in' things. Over time, some of us learn to control desire, some suppress it, and some give it unabashed free reign. Some use it as a weapon, a bribe, a reward. Others enjoy it while others still feel bad about it. We have guilt, shame, blame beaten into us. Little boys are told touching themselves is bad. That they'll go blind, that they'll break it or stretch it out (if only that were true....). Women are told they must submit, must not feel pleasure or else they are sluts. Told it's their place.
In short my friend, we're told a lot of ****ed up **** that screws us up real bad for a long time, until we can get out **** straight again.
In short my friend, we're told a lot of ****ed up **** that screws us up real bad for a long time, until we can get out **** straight again.
Aye, Bob, so very true.
About the only culture I can think of that got it sort of right as far as human sexuality was concerned was the Anglo-Saxons.
That is ironic considering everyone thinks that British (and therefore American) culture is Anglo-Saxon (it's largely Norman by the way, so blame the French (well, Frenchy-Vikings at least)) :lol:.
Of course we are looking back at them through a 1500 year telescope, so who knows what learned speculation has gotten wrong with regard to their comparitively relaxed and equal views on sex and sexuality?
About the only culture I can think of that got it sort of right as far as human sexuality was concerned was the Anglo-Saxons.
That is ironic considering everyone thinks that British (and therefore American) culture is Anglo-Saxon (it's largely Norman by the way, so blame the French (well, Frenchy-Vikings at least)) :lol:.
Of course we are looking back at them through a 1500 year telescope, so who knows what learned speculation has gotten wrong with regard to their comparitively relaxed and equal views on sex and sexuality?
Blade96
Senior Master
Aye, thats true for many things. Some of those drugs like Mary Juana, for example. Other drugs, they could keep em banned until Kingdom Come, for all I care.
and like prohibition. Now that caused more problems than it solved.I still agree with punishing pimps and tricks though.
Hoy! agreed! Thats disgusting! I'd smack my brother silly if he told my niece (his daughter) that! Or told his son if he has one, those things!
I don't know if this point has been made already, but I'll type it anyways. If it's sexist to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body when it comes to abortion, isn't it sexist to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body when it comes to prostitution?
For me, it's like saying, "we need to protect women from all of the evil men out there because they are too weak to make decisions for themselves."
If you believe that women are capable and strong, then they can decide what they want to use their bodies for. If you want to control how a woman uses her body, perhaps the underlying motive is sexist in nature.
For me, it's like saying, "we need to protect women from all of the evil men out there because they are too weak to make decisions for themselves."
If you believe that women are capable and strong, then they can decide what they want to use their bodies for. If you want to control how a woman uses her body, perhaps the underlying motive is sexist in nature.
Brother John
Senior Master
A Question for Blade96:
You may have already answered this before, I don't know. IF so, please feel free to just direct me there...
Why is it, do you think, that legalization and regulation of prostitution would not significanty reduce the 'exploitive' aspects of prostitution? Nothing would ever stop it totally, I think that that's just a given. But why wouldn't legalization and regulation reduce the exploitive aspects?
Also: If capitolism plays such a major role in causing women to chose the 'sex trade' (as some call it), then why has prostitution always flourished in both communist and socialist goverments? I'd be interested to know your thoughts on that.
Thank you
Your Brother
John
You may have already answered this before, I don't know. IF so, please feel free to just direct me there...
Why is it, do you think, that legalization and regulation of prostitution would not significanty reduce the 'exploitive' aspects of prostitution? Nothing would ever stop it totally, I think that that's just a given. But why wouldn't legalization and regulation reduce the exploitive aspects?
Also: If capitolism plays such a major role in causing women to chose the 'sex trade' (as some call it), then why has prostitution always flourished in both communist and socialist goverments? I'd be interested to know your thoughts on that.
Thank you
Your Brother
John
Ramirez
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men, women, law enforcement officers, accountants, engineers , politicians, etc. it runs through all strata of society, might as well legalize , tax and control it.
Being a prostitute isn't illegal here however soliciting for custom is as is living off immoral earnings (pimping) pandering and running a brothel.
A major problem here isn't prositition as such but people trafficking, girls are being brought from Eastern Europe and Asia after being told there are legitimate jobs for them but they are in fact being held as sex workers against their will. A lot of police time and effort goes into tracking down and rescuing these girls
These days prostitutes aren't considered criminals, the police will rarely arrest them unless they are making a nuisance of themselves. they will arrest their 'customers' and kerb crawlers. There are a many efforts made to help women out of the trade, for many reasons though some women will chose to stay in the trade. Like alcoholics, battered women etc you can only help so far and unless they make a move to help themselves there's little you can do.
We have a type of prostitute here and I won't call them anything else, who goes out with footballers predominately then sells their stories of sex etc to the newspapers for vast sums. This is something that is very much the female's choice.
The business of selling sex for money and/or favours is as old as mankind. I can't see it going away anytime soon whatever legislation is enacted.
The subject of men and women needing sex is a very basic one, despite our outer sophisication etc we are still driven by our instincts to breed, the same as every other living organism. We dress it up as all sorts of things, love, 'being close' etc etc but the truth is we do need sex. Some may prefer to remain celibate, some may be promiscuous or been put off by bad experiences etc but the basic human need for sex is in all of us.
A major problem here isn't prositition as such but people trafficking, girls are being brought from Eastern Europe and Asia after being told there are legitimate jobs for them but they are in fact being held as sex workers against their will. A lot of police time and effort goes into tracking down and rescuing these girls
These days prostitutes aren't considered criminals, the police will rarely arrest them unless they are making a nuisance of themselves. they will arrest their 'customers' and kerb crawlers. There are a many efforts made to help women out of the trade, for many reasons though some women will chose to stay in the trade. Like alcoholics, battered women etc you can only help so far and unless they make a move to help themselves there's little you can do.
We have a type of prostitute here and I won't call them anything else, who goes out with footballers predominately then sells their stories of sex etc to the newspapers for vast sums. This is something that is very much the female's choice.
The business of selling sex for money and/or favours is as old as mankind. I can't see it going away anytime soon whatever legislation is enacted.
The subject of men and women needing sex is a very basic one, despite our outer sophisication etc we are still driven by our instincts to breed, the same as every other living organism. We dress it up as all sorts of things, love, 'being close' etc etc but the truth is we do need sex. Some may prefer to remain celibate, some may be promiscuous or been put off by bad experiences etc but the basic human need for sex is in all of us.
Blade96
Senior Master
Because just legalizing it wouldnt get rid of the fact it objectifies people, men and women. Mostly women. Sex objects. And just legalizing it is not helping create an end to the conditions that force a woman to sell her body (the student who has to choose it because they cant make good enough money any other way)
john said:
Communism/socialism is an ideal. I am a left winger and while other countries have and had aspects of it in them the fact is true communism/socialism only exists as an idea.
I do not believe that. No one 'needs' sex. Not one of us will die if we never had sex again. therefore not a 'need'
No we won't die if we don't have sex ever again but the human race will certainly die out. That's the imperative in our genes, the need to perpetuate the species, all living things have it. Don't let your feelings on sex confuse you as to why we procreate. You can call it what you like, sex, mating, making love but the reason behind it is our instinct telling us to 'go forth and multiply', the fact we have effective contraceptives and the way we romantise sex often makes us forget why we 'indulge' in this most basic of human activities.
I do it cuz it feels good. And to keep my prostate in good order.
LOL
LOL
Perhaps a little too much info there Bob lol!
As humans we are lucky that it feels good, it doesn't for female cats and they still do it! As I said it's a fundamental instinct, it's there whether you decide to have sex or not. Ask the women who find their body clock is telling them to have a baby even though they never wanted kids before!
How's that song go?
"You and me baby we ain't nothin' but mammals
So let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel"
Sadly, I was watching Deadliest Catch at the time, so I thought that meant putting the wife in a cage and tossing her into icy waters. She thought otherwise and now I'm in pain. Stupid song.
Blade, do you consider the young women who sleep with footballers and celebrities just to be able to sell their stories to the media and become celebrities themselves as victims or as good business women?
The subject of prostitution is more complex than a man using a woman, there's many reason why a man will go to a prostitute, some nothing to do with sex and there's many reasons why a woman will sell sex. Closing your eyes to the fact that some women like to do this and that some men will buy sex or companionship is to close your eyes to what humans are, a very complex and sometimes bewildering species. Basing your ideas on only what you have experienced means you can't be open to others ideas and arguments. Nothing about prostitution is in black and white, there's many shades of colours in there.
The subject of prostitution is more complex than a man using a woman, there's many reason why a man will go to a prostitute, some nothing to do with sex and there's many reasons why a woman will sell sex. Closing your eyes to the fact that some women like to do this and that some men will buy sex or companionship is to close your eyes to what humans are, a very complex and sometimes bewildering species. Basing your ideas on only what you have experienced means you can't be open to others ideas and arguments. Nothing about prostitution is in black and white, there's many shades of colours in there.
Blade96
Senior Master
LOL you don't wanna know what I think of them
They aint attracted to the people, they like the status. They're users. And I hate users.
LOL you don't wanna know what I think of them
They aint attracted to the people, they like the status. They're users. And I hate users.
But they aren't victims are they? They are selling their bodies for money, they don't pretend to be attracted to the person, they say they want the money and the celebrity. It's their choice to do what they do, they sell sex for money.
What if a woman wants to be a sex object in order to make money? What if she has amazing skill in ******** and men are willing to pay 100 bucks a blow? She could open a business, train other women who are also willing to learn, and then open a chain where the product is known. Mama-san is now a millionaire for her skills and now her apprentices have a skill that they can expand into a successful business if they choose.
Who are you to say that these women cannot do this with their bodies if they choose? Who are you to claim that "society forces" them to make that choice? The language you use above actually diminishes the intelligence and capability of women. It lumps them all together and pastes them with a label of second class, weak, and in need of protection.
THAT is sexism.
Trusting a woman to be intelligent and capable is truly empowering. Letting a woman claim her freedom rather then forcing her to bow down to some Victorian diminished ideal is empowering. The whole concept of telling anyone what they can and cannot do with their bodies rests on the premise that one party is fundamentally weak and needs to be told.
In the end, every party goes home happy. Men pay for an amazing sexual treat and look forward to the next one and the women are well compensated for their craft. I think about the women like the one Elliot Spitzer consulted for services. He paid her $5000 dollars a night. Damn! If you think this woman is not capable or undeserving of this wealth, what does that say about how you view women?
Lastly, one of my best friends in college was born with a beautiful body, an ear for music and beat, and a freaky mind that could drive men wild. She willingly stripped at the best clubs in town and was pulling down $3000 dollars in a good week. She was so hot that she could charge several hundred dollars for a lapdance and leave a man in exquisite frustration, about ready to tear his chair apart. She used the money she earned to pay for her education at an elite private school. She bought several houses and rents them out and works the taxes so she hardly has to pay anything. And she outright owns a studio where she gives the best private music lessons in the town where she lives. I admire this woman for her skill and capability. She doesn't need anyone to protect her from other people's imagined weakness.
Brother John
Senior Master
Human's objectify humans. Period. Men look at a very physically attractive woman and (most often) their biological urges move them to think of them for things other than their personality and what they contribute to society. Simple truth. Women look at men in a fitted suit, gold watch, stepping out of a nice new BMW and their mind (often) goes toward things other than their personality or what they contribute to society. Simple truth. It's not a feature of any one political vantage point or societal norm, it's as much a part of who we are as being bipedal and omnivorous. HOWEVER: the amount of time we spend at one end or another of this continuum has a LOT to say for our character. I'd have to say that it's probably true that those who frequent brothels or employ a prostitute are at the FAR end of the continuum and look at their ........but to say that they ALWAYS and ONLY look at ALL women in such a manner would be painting with TOO broad a brush I think. If you think about it, there's a LOT more to our sexual urges than mere sensory gratification. Psychologically speaking, sex...and everything having to do with it, is one of the most complex and multifacited aspects of our nature. Companionship, sense of self worth, fantasy, acceptance, vulnerability, trust....etc. The list could go on to challenge even the bandwidth of MT. When the many needs that Sex satisfies/gratifies aren't met for a long period of time....the psychological NEED for sex intensifies a LOT. I know that you've expressed your opinion that "Sex" is not a "Need"...but you've done so on a purely biological basis, that it's cessation would not bring on death. Remember: the neglect of needs does NOT always result in the destruction of the organism as a whole. I think it's very telling that Abraham Maslow, the primary mover in the founding of Humanistic Psychology, put "Sex" on his "Heirarchy of Needs". Here is a CUT & PASTE from a page discussing this Heirarchy:
http://www.futurehi.net/docs/Maslows_Hierarchy.html
So....according to the premier leader of this branch of science, SEX is as much a fundamental, 1st level "NEED" as air. I find that very interesting. I don't have any interest in parsing words with you as to what does or does not constitute a NEED....
but I'll let you tell the world that Maslow was wrong on a fundamental level.
I hope it doesn't sound to rude to say so, but ....so what?
Every political stance or position is nothing more than an idea that gets acted on, with more or less integrity/effect. Communism/Socialism/Fascism/Democracy/Republicanism...
any of it.
So, the question remains.....if a large portion of the fault in the western hemisphere can be placed (as you did) on the idea of capitolism
what's to be blamed for prostitution flourishing under it's opposite???
MY answer: THey're both ideas run by HUMANS.
Your Brother
John
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