One Punch Can Kill - do you think about this?

[Gnarlie]

This video came to my attention in 2010 but has recently resurfaced on Facebook and set me thinking. The Youtube description alleges it's a campaign from Great Manchester Police in the UK, encouraging young people not to engage in drunken acts of violence if they can possibly avoid it.

The campaign focuses on a video showing the punch that ended a young man's life outside a pub in Oldham. I understand (again from the Youtube description) that his family agreed to use of the video in the campaign to raise awareness of the problems of alcohol related violence in the Northwest of England. This is a very real problem in Manchester and the surrounding areas, and it is with the utmost respect for the victim and his family that I make this post.

This raises some important questions in a martial arts context:

Do you worry about the possibility that you might kill someone if you ever have to defend yourself? How does / would this affect your actions?

 

[MJS]

I started a thread last year about a fight that happened on a college campus. One person punched another, the kid fell, hit his head and died. I do think about my actions, what could happen as a result of them, and IMO, I think its important. However, where do we draw the line? Of course, your actions, IMO, should be based on whats happening to you. Some may disagree, but I know people on here have questioned the amount of force that was used in a situation. How is it going to look in court, if it goes there, if all someone did was ask you for money, and you bust his nose and knock out some teeth? Now sure, if the guy pulls a knife, yeah, I can justify that.

We could do something as simple as push someone away from us, and the guy could lose his balance, fall, hit is head and die. Should we rush to help cushion his fall, after we shove him away from us? This thread I started yesterday showed someone dying as a result of a headlock, yet the people stayed, called the police, are cooperating, and so far, no charges have been filed.

As I always say...my first goal is to protect myself and anyone with me. That is my immediate concern. The well being of the guy who tried to rob me is a distant second.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Do you worry about the possibility that you might kill someone if you ever have to defend yourself? How does / would this affect your actions?

In a word, no. My concern is for my own life and well-being, as well as anyone I might be trying to defend, such as a loved one.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Think about it? I suppose to some extent, but certainly not during a confrontation.

I've been in more confrontations than I can count. That's just life in the ER. But thanks to training and experience, I am quite confident of my ability to gauge my responses to their actions to minimize any risk of accidental injury.

If they're injured, it's safe to assume it was intentional. And their own damned fault.

 

[clfsean]

In a word, no. My concern is for my own life and well-being, as well as anyone I might be trying to defend, such as a loved one.

I think that sums it up simply & nicely.

 

[Cyriacus]

It doesnt bother Me. Im not out to Kill, but I am not about to let Myself potentially be killed just because I might kill someone else defending Myself. That is all.

 

[Twin Fist]

normally my response would mirror this:

In a word, no. My concern is for my own life and well-being, as well as anyone I might be trying to defend, such as a loved one.

but, i have to admit, as i get older i realize that if it comes down to it, and i have to throw down, one person will be badly hurt

it may be me, it may be the bad guy.

someone may die.

it troubles me, but it wont stop me.

 

[David43515]

I hate to dig up old cliches. but isn`t this the same as the old saying "It`s better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"? Sure we all worry about causing more serious injuries than intended if we have to defend ourselves, but the main priority is defending our selves or our loved ones from serious injury. Concern about or liability has to be there as well, but it takes a back seat to our main focus of surviving without being injured ourselves.

If I have to give someone CPR there`s a risk of breaking their ribs. If I have to exit a burning building via a window there`s a risk of my being cut or fallling. The risks are real, but they`re secondary to the main goal of survival. There are always priorities to weed through, that`s one of the reasons we train. So that if the situation arrises we`re better prepared to get through the worst of it without making it worse.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If I have to give someone CPR there`s a risk of breaking their ribs.

Actually, if you're doing effective CPR, fractures of the ribs and/or sternum are almost certain. Especially in the demographic group most likely to need CPR.

 

[WC_lun]

I agree with what Bill posted. If it has come to the point where I feel violence is my only effective option, I will do what I am trained to do. At that point, my worry is that if I am not successful, myself or someone I care about may be hurt or worse. After the situation is resolved, I'll worry about if the person causing the trouble hit his head on the curb, etc.


I just have to ask, if you were forced to defend yourself and injured them badly, would you would you offer that person help or medical care? Would you bother to even call 911?

 

[Jenna]

It is easy to be cavalier when typing responses on a forum.

Perhaps it is a view as a female and but from experience, the reality is that, if you are a normally functioning human, you WILL suffer both guilt and remorse if and when you ever seriously injure an attacker.

This is naturally mitigated by the necessity of your own survival in that attack. That you did what you had to will be your defence against your conscience. And it is a strong defence.

You yourself however are the one left to deal with the fallout from what you have done.

Minimum force is something we all -including the law- consider right and proper. When you are asaulted, such things as minimum force are not always forefront in your actions.

 

[seasoned]

Think about it? I suppose to some extent, but certainly not during a confrontation.

I've been in more confrontations than I can count. That's just life in the ER. But thanks to training and experience, I am quite confident of my ability to gauge my responses to their actions to minimize any risk of accidental injury.

If they're injured, it's safe to assume it was intentional. And their own damned fault.

Great point. This, I feel, is what training is all about. We train to keep our facilities intact, not go off half cocked so to speak, and unduly hurt someone unnecessarily. If someone does get hurt, and with this in mind, as you have so amply put it, "If they're injured, it's safe to assume it was intentional. And their own damned fault." I like this.

 

[Gemini]

We train our single punch to generate maximum power. I do teach that if there is only one single technique available to protect yourself, that's it and we teach it at the very beginning of training. As with all the techniques we teach, we discuss appropriate application and potential cause and effect. While we never know how we're going to truly react in any given situation, an altercation is not the time to wonder if we have not only the physical ability but just as important, the intestinal fortitude. We cannot truly know what the after effects of our action will really be until it happens, but we need to have a good understanding of the potential.

 

[mukashimantis]

Yes. I think my art has enough techniques in it to cover most any situation. Sometimes all it takes is getting into a fighting stance to stop a potential fight. Other times, a good slap across the face. Techniques escualate from there. As other posters have said, when defending a family member or friend, I think less about it. I know I can easily control the attacker with whatever method is necessary. When you add in a defenseless/nonfighter into the mix, it seems, to me anyway, that there is too much else to think about, like surviving.

 

[chinto]

As a former EMT I am very aware how fragile the human body can be. Do I worry about it when on the street, and or when a confrontation is possibly imminent? NO! I worry about how to stay safe and unhurt. Any attacker becomes a threat and nothing else up and until that threat is removed! their survival or lack there of is not a primary concern for me at that time. Does that mean I will initiate DEADLY FORCE instantly? NO!!! But I will do what I must to stay unharmed and safe.

 

[Buka]

Nope. Not in the least little bit. Not even in the confines of a friendly atmosphere during discussion. I didn't as a cop and I don't as a civilian.
Niave? Perhaps. Ah, well.

 

[WingChunIan]

everyone can be macho ahead of the event but living with the aftermath is far more problematic. I teach my students (as I'm sure you all do) that violence is the last resort. As part of that training I encourage them to set a trigger for taking the situation physical. The trigger may be anything from distance to a feeling or an action of the assailant /s. Once the trigger is fired I teach my students to explode, no half measures, no trying to be nice or fear of hurting the person. If the trigger point has been reached they can look back afterwards and help to deal psychologically with any aftermath knowing that they had no other choice (the trigger also works the other way and prevents them from freezing or adopting the it will all be over in a minute response that sends many victims catatonic before a blow has even landed)

 

[MA-Caver]

I never worried about it. If I am of mind to kill someone then I'll do so with full intent and commitment. But if it is not within my intentions (about 99.9% of the time) and it does happen, then I still, would not be bothered by it.
I was jumped once walking home on a dark night in the N.E. sector of Washington D.C. (read: bad neighborhood at the time--might still be), I managed an empty hand "sword" cut across my assailant's throat and he went down gagging and gasping. I just walked off. I hit him hard so I might've crushed their larynx for all I know. As I approached my destination an ambulance with sirens wailing passed me. Might've been for that guy or might've not. Dunno and honestly to this day... don't care.
It's not a "kill or be killed" attitude it's, I did what I had to do to get away from that scenario and reacted as per my training. Yes, I was aware of the potential of lethality of strikes to various points of the body, also was/am aware that a punch may not directly kill, but the guy falling down might strike their head and that would kill them... it could happen to me just as well.
You do what you gotta do. How you deal with the consequences will vary.

 

[MJS]

It is easy to be cavalier when typing responses on a forum.

Perhaps it is a view as a female and but from experience, the reality is that, if you are a normally functioning human, you WILL suffer both guilt and remorse if and when you ever seriously injure an attacker.

This is naturally mitigated by the necessity of your own survival in that attack. That you did what you had to will be your defence against your conscience. And it is a strong defence.

You yourself however are the one left to deal with the fallout from what you have done.

Minimum force is something we all -including the law- consider right and proper. When you are asaulted, such things as minimum force are not always forefront in your actions.

Good points. OTOH, I'd say situation depending, the level of remorse or guilt will vary. Not really a SD situation, but quite a few years ago, I was at a grappling class that a friend of mine was teaching at a local university. During the free rolling session, the guy I was working with, had hardly any control. He cranked my knee, hard. (I discovered later the SOB came close to tearing my ACL) Did I feel bad when I cranked his arm and then when he still wasn't getting the message, sunk in a nice, strong guillotine choke? Nope, not at all. I blasted the bastard for his lack of control.

I think that in certain situations, having that remorse, can actually hinder you from actually defending yourself.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It is easy to be cavalier when typing responses on a forum.

Perhaps it is a view as a female and but from experience, the reality is that, if you are a normally functioning human, you WILL suffer both guilt and remorse if and when you ever seriously injure an attacker.

This is naturally mitigated by the necessity of your own survival in that attack. That you did what you had to will be your defence against your conscience. And it is a strong defence.

You yourself however are the one left to deal with the fallout from what you have done.

Minimum force is something we all -including the law- consider right and proper. When you are asaulted, such things as minimum force are not always forefront in your actions.

I have to disagree with you on one point.
At the age of 17, I was assaulted by a man with a knife. As the result of this attack, I ended up losing an eye, and he ended up a C5/6 quadreplegic. My only regret afterwards was that I didn't break his neck BEFORE I lost the eye. And no, I'm not an unfeeling sociopath. I'm plenty capable of feeling remorse. Just not in this case. There was, and is to this day, no doubt in my mind that I did the right thing. Just not soon enough.