On Self "Training" In Martial Arts

[Tez3]

I searched shopping centers for bombs after we found one.

That's retail security here not door work.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Well I'm sure that will come as a surprise to all the door staff I know. 'Just' specialised security guards?.

What they deal with here, is security issues ( funnily enough), fire safety, crime (theft, assaults, fraud), drug offences (drug dealers), first aid, dealing with drunks certainly ( not just the troublesome ones, the lost and sick ones too) and basically making sure the venue is safe and people have a good time. Here they usually work with the police, having a good working relationship with the local police is vital now.

Best wording to generalise them as each country regulates them diffrently. It could very really be a matter of semantics in some or where you plan on working in others. Or not a issue at all as its not regulated.

And i am from the same country as you. I would dispute fire safety, but most places employ security in a fire safety role of some description as well as first aider. (especially on account of them needing a first aid certificate to get some licences) But that was also my point, secuirty are in charge of protecting staff, patrons and property, if somone came in stabbing people its their job to deal with it, same with shooting etc. Note the usage of "deal with it", many situations would lead to what they can do and how.


Also 10/10 for compartive doorman studies coversation going on now.

 

[Tez3]

Best wording to generalise them as each country regulates them diffrently. It could very really be a matter of semantics in some or where you plan on working in others. Or not a issue at all as its not regulated.

And i am from the same country as you. I would dispute fire safety, but most places employ security in a fire safety role of some description as well as first aider. (especially on account of them needing a first aid certificate to get some licences) But that was also my point, secuirty are in charge of protecting staff, patrons and property, if somone came in stabbing people its their job to deal with it, same with shooting etc. Note the usage of "deal with it", many situations would lead to what they can do and how.


Also 10/10 for compartive doorman studies coversation going on now.

It was the word 'just' I was questioning. somewhat demeaning.

Of course fire safety comes into it, where wouldn't it?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

It was the word 'just' I was questioning. somewhat demeaning.

Just the way i write things. (pardon the unintetional pun that might be there)

Of course fire safety comes into it, where wouldn't it?

Depends if another staff member(s) has taken over the responsibility for that. But as i stated its a common thing that they basically absorb first responder duties. I also dont dispute its a common thing for companies to do.

 

[Tez3]

Depends if another staff member(s) has taken over the responsibility for that. But as i stated its a common thing that they basically absorb first responder duties. I also dont dispute its a common thing for companies to do.

I'm not sure if you understand that 'fire safety' is an ongoing thing, such as making sure that there aren't too many people in a building, that fire doors aren't blocked etc. It's part of the door supervisors job as well to be able to know what to do in case of a fire, as well as evacuate a building etc. I think the type of fire safety you are thinking about is fire prevention which is the responsibility of the fire service and their inspections.

 

[drop bear]

That's retail security here not door work.

Here we have crowd control. Which is people and security which is property.

And so almost everything just becomes crowd control.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But they deal with firearms and terrorism. I searched shopping centers for bombs after we found one. And a guy I used to work with was shot in a biker dispute.

Here, bouncers wouldn’t be involved in a OMG search. And most of the bouncers I’ve worked with or trained with never faced a gun, though many of them have barred or confiscated guns from folks trying to enter the club. Same with knives (of which I’ve confiscated a large handful even in my short time on the door).

 

[drop bear]

You have to factor in he's replacing experience with supposition.

The whole industry confuses those two elements.

Again to actually confirm or deny the concept of self training it would be through competition.

With self defense you can "in my experience. Or I suppose" all day I mean everyone else does it so I assume that is the standard.

 

[drop bear]

Here, bouncers wouldn’t be involved in a OMG search. And most of the bouncers I’ve worked with or trained with never faced a gun, though many of them have barred or confiscated guns from folks trying to enter the club. Same with knives (of which I’ve confiscated a large handful even in my short time on the door).

The bouncers I worked with have. And the majority were not trained in self defense.

 

[drop bear]

Best wording to generalise them as each country regulates them diffrently. It could very really be a matter of semantics in some or where you plan on working in others. Or not a issue at all as its not regulated.

And i am from the same country as you. I would dispute fire safety, but most places employ security in a fire safety role of some description as well as first aider. (especially on account of them needing a first aid certificate to get some licences) But that was also my point, secuirty are in charge of protecting staff, patrons and property, if somone came in stabbing people its their job to deal with it, same with shooting etc. Note the usage of "deal with it", many situations would lead to what they can do and how.


Also 10/10 for compartive doorman studies coversation going on now.

Yeah I was one of the first responders in a shopping center that basically blew up there at one point.

Because we have the keys to things we tend to go in first.

 

[dvcochran]

The bouncers I've worked with never have to deal with people with rifles or anything like that. It's mostly folks who need to be removed because of behavior (mostly drunks) and folks who get into fights (probably still mostly drunks, but also includes some folks who haven't had that much yet).

Agree. I cannot remember of a gun related incident at a club/bar that did end with the business closing down shortly after. People are just not going to frequent that kind of environment very much.

 

[dvcochran]

But they deal with firearms and terrorism. I searched shopping centers for bombs after we found one. And a guy I used to work with was shot in a biker dispute.

I do not doubt any of this. But a bouncer searching a shopping center for a bomb is normal? I know very well that biker bars can get rough but again, is that the 'norm'?
Don't misunderstand, preparation for any of it is paramount. But the guy still got stabbed. I imagine there is a lot more to that story.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The bouncers I worked with have. And the majority were not trained in self defense.

According to you, nobody is, so...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Agree. I cannot remember of a gun related incident at a club/bar that did end with the business closing down shortly after. People are just not going to frequent that kind of environment very much.

Agreed. The guy I've worked for is pretty fanatical about making sure everyone is properly checked to prevent any guns and knives getting in. One bad situation, and the club probably doesn't make it.

 

[drop bear]

According to you, nobody is, so...

Well if we go by your argument that people like bouncers have basically been naturally selected.

because that's likely LONG after the unsuccessful have mostly selected themselves out.

According to you nobody is either.

So check this out. So say my self defense school trains bouncers and cops and so on. So therefore it shows my training works.

Sorry. because that's likely LONG after the unsuccessful have mostly selected themselves out.

Say my system has a been proven in battle for generations.

Sorry. because that's likely LONG after the unsuccessful have mostly selected themselves out.

 

[drop bear]

I do not doubt any of this. But a bouncer searching a shopping center for a bomb is normal? I know very well that biker bars can get rough but again, is that the 'norm'?
Don't misunderstand, preparation for any of it is paramount. But the guy still got stabbed. I imagine there is a lot more to that story.

The shooting was I think a contract dispute. So gangster run security companies would send some guys in to the pub and bash all the security. Then they would go to the owner and say "your guards are terrible you should employ our guards"

This particular guard was a street fighting monster. And so they shot him instead.

 

[dvcochran]

The shooting was I think a contract dispute. So gangster run security companies would send some guys in to the pub and bash all the security. Then they would go to the owner and say "your guards are terrible you should employ our guards"

This particular guard was a street fighting monster. And so they shot him instead.

In the states they are called the mafia.

 

[drop bear]

In the states they are called the mafia.

Yeah. We sort of have mafia here. these guys were specifically bikers. (The comencheros I think. But pretty much the same thing.

 

[Tez3]

On the subject of bombs, I believe in the UK we have more experience of them than most. We've had some horrendous bombing campaigns, it has become everyone's 'job' to look for bombs. The first 'modern' bombing began in 1972 ( we'd had bombings in the late 1880s from the same source as well as a bombing campaign, 290 bombs, in 1939) with the bombing at Aldershot which killed 7 civilians, the next year four car bombs in London including Whitehall where I was working at the time. It went on from there, over 3500 people have been killed . The latest Al Qaeda type bomber is another in a long line of things we have to watch for here, there are still car bombs etc in Northern Ireland and here.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Just worth noting i didnt state that bombings and terorirsm or things compartible ins cale to it would be common for most people. Just it can happen and if you are security you have to deal with it if it does happen.

But a bouncer searching a shopping center for a bomb is normal? I

It could be a situation where a shopping centre has a bar in it or the like and the doormen there belong to the centre so can be dragged to issues outside it, or be expected to aid the generic shopping centre security. (if they are seperate) Centres themselves tend to provide all the security or most of it to the stores inside.

Also 10/10 for comparative security studies here.