On dealing with KenpoPhobes

[Touch Of Death]

What kind of life is that? Disconnected from your computer - can you really call it living?

Honestly, that's probably one of the benefits I get from martial arts training - a period of time when I'm not concerned about anything going on online. At least until we get the technology for brain implants connected to the Internet. Then I'll probably be running software to analyze my performance while I'm sparring. I'll be like the Borg - you can only defeat me a given way one time and then I'll have added the necessary countermeasures to my database.

What is Off Line?...

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

I'm not a Kenpo guy, but I'm curious... are you saying that if a Kenpo practitioner doesn't like all the techniques in the system, and I understand that there are ALOT of techniques in EPAK , that they are a KenpoPhobe, and cannot make the technique work for them? Do you personally like all the techniques? Do you find all the EPAK techniques to be excellent? And if not, does that make you a KenpoPhobe?

No I am not saying that if a Kenpo practitioner doesn't like all the techniques in the system they are a KenpoPhobe. I do personally like all the techniques in the Kenpo I do but liking and not liking a technique is different from painting with a wide brush and blaming the art for my own failures and even that is different from pretending to be an expert in the art after having been a failure at it and quitting. The art is not for everyone, their are plenty of excellent martial arts out there, if you look hard enough you will find one that works for you I only take issue with the ones that haunt the Kenpo world with their long dead kenpo to play the I am an expert card all the while criticizing and putting down the art, their expertise being based on their failed attempts at the art.

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

As a side note, I don't really care about the kenpophobes, or any style-phobes for that matter. Why does it matter if someone else dislikes a style, as long as I find it useful?

It only matters in that people that are new to the Kenpo arts or those considering beginning their journey may get dissuaded by these kenpo failures or KenpoPhobes and even SOME practitioners who have been at the art for sometime have become a little confused by the constant criticisms of the art by people that are pretending to be experienced experts when in fact they are experienced failures a completely different animal.

 

[Flying Crane]

Some of us have lives, and don't hover over our computers, every moment.

Well...an assassin has a busy schedule...

 

[Touch Of Death]

For the record, I agree with the OP. Somebody can have a bad experience with a mediocre teacher, and he will say what he thinks about the art. On Kenpotalk, we pretty much all agree that kenpo deserves it, because, YouTube is full of some very bad kenpo, performed by people with nosebleed rank. It is disgusting. However, the art is sound.

 

[Buka]

Some of us have lives, and don't hover over our computers, every moment.

Well, ya, but that's only because I don't have an internet thingy on my phone as of yet.
But, THEN, I'll probably be a phone hoverer. (Oh, God, save me)

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

Umm sorry but you seem to be one of those who believes kenpo is the be all and end all of martial arts...it's not its got its weaknesses and some of the techniques simply do not work for people no matter who trained them. Lee wedlake hates the techique circling windmills and he hates the set 2s and he was trained by ed Parker but since he doesn't like a techique are you saying he didn't get trained properly then? Get a grip your post makes you extremely arrogant. Not all of kenpo is ineffective but some of it is. Some of it physically doesn't work for some people and if you go around saying that everything works and it's all perfect then you're the one failing your students telling them that.

You've obviously got yourself all upset about your silly assassination comment. Who are you to tell people they're failures at it and by the way that word kenpo phobes...you do realise that means they're scared of kenpo...if someone hates kenpo that's their choice I don't care makes no difference to me if they love it or hate it it's non of my business you need to stop getting so upset

No I do not believe that Kenpo is the be all and end all of the martial arts, you would do well to stop assuming you know anything about what I believe or feel.
Your Kenpo has its weaknesses and mine has its weaknesses but they are not the same because we do not train the same way. Maybe you should not drag Mr. Wedlake into this to try and make a point, Mr. Wedlake did not quit Kenpo, he does not haunt the Kenpo Forums criticizing Kenpo and painting with a wide brush, In fact he has done much to spread the art and his books on the art are excellent, I highly recommend them.

Not all Kenpo is ineffective but some of IT is... no no some Kenpo practitioners are effective and some are not. Your correct some people can't physically do a technique a certain way, good thing with the help of a qualified instructor they can tailor it to work for them. If someone hates Kenpo that is their choice but if they want to run their mouth spewing BS about it, they are going to get it turned right around on them, that was the point of the post how to deal with the KenpoPhobes!

As for my sounding extremely arrogant, sure, take what I say and let it offend you to your core, to the very bottom of your heart but it really is not a personal attack, I don't even know who you are, its not like you use your real name, maybe you posted something in the past that fit the KenpoPhobe bill and now you think I am targeting you. I am not, I have a short memory these days when it comes to KenpoPhobe comments, after awhile they all blur together and sound the same:

"Boo Hoo Kenpo is not effective, too commercial, too complex, too simple, not inclusive, not specializing in X or Y or Z enough, lacking in this or that, the uniforms are ugly, the masters are fat, the practitioners cannot beat boxers, kickboxers, UFC fighters, the scripted ideal phase training sequence does not work against ninja in the parking lot, their are no codified basics, the bio-mechanical flux-capacitors are not traveling along the correct dimensional planes causing dis-associative nuclear fall-out from the IKKA and Ed Parker is a lousy fighter, kicker, ninja with a penchant for con-artistry." or just imagine the sound of finger nails on a chalk board.

 

[JR 137]

Not everyone who is/was involved with or associated with Kenpo is really destined for success in Kenpo. I mean these KenpoPhobes do not have any faith in Kenpo, they are future Kenpo failures in the making, learning only the surface motion with only the most shallow understanding of the art. These are the future critics of Kenpo, the ones who will quit sooner or later because they can't seem to make any real progress because they have already convinced themselves that all Kenpo is impractical, watered down or whatever. These are the ones who always paint with a wide brush when discussing their perceived problems with the art, never taking responsibility for their own short comings.

If you are new to the art of Kenpo, please take the time to check the source of information when it comes to Kenpo, if the person offering you insight is someone who "used to study" Kenpo but quit and now has a head full of opinions about the art, keep in mind this is a KenpoPhobe, someone whose entire journey in the art of Kenpo was as a destined failure, not to be confused with Kenpo practitioners who cross reference or cross train. How much worst if the person in question has spent more than half a life time failing in Kenpo before quitting. This art is not for everyone and is definitely not for KenpoPhobes.

Now if you're like me, you take sadistic pleasure in taking any statement made by a KenpoPhobe and cut away the generalization, clarifying their failure to be something unique to them. For example, this technique sucks becomes I am sorry to hear that your still having problems understanding that excellent technique, I would recommend a qualified instructor for you but I see that you quit Kenpo years ago lol. Now, if you do this they feel like it is a personal attack and so you can expect personal attacks back ranging from questioning your lineage to questioning your sanity, one thing you can rest assured they won't ever do is actually discuss the original topic in any further detail since they have no idea that the topic goes much deeper than their shallow understanding.

Please tread with care around the manure spewing from these faithless dogs who are failures in Kenpo and want to convince us that the problem is with the art (really they are subconsciously trying to convince themselves that they are not failures). Take your insight from those who are successful with the art not those who are critics of the art, from the critics learn to identify how they came to reach dismal failure and avoid their mistakes.

Can't the same be said about any art?

 

[JR 137]

No I do not believe that Kenpo is the be all and end all of the martial arts, you would do well to stop assuming you know anything about what I believe or feel.
Your Kenpo has its weaknesses and mine has its weaknesses but they are not the same because we do not train the same way. Maybe you should not drag Mr. Wedlake into this to try and make a point, Mr. Wedlake did not quit Kenpo, he does not haunt the Kenpo Forums criticizing Kenpo and painting with a wide brush, In fact he has done much to spread the art and his books on the art are excellent, I highly recommend them.

Not all Kenpo is ineffective but some of IT is... no no some Kenpo practitioners are effective and some are not. Your correct some people can't physically do a technique a certain way, good thing with the help of a qualified instructor they can tailor it to work for them. If someone hates Kenpo that is their choice but if they want to run their mouth spewing BS about it, they are going to get it turned right around on them, that was the point of the post how to deal with the KenpoPhobes!

As for my sounding extremely arrogant, sure, take what I say and let it offend you to your core, to the very bottom of your heart but it really is not a personal attack, I don't even know who you are, its not like you use your real name, maybe you posted something in the past that fit the KenpoPhobe bill and now you think I am targeting you. I am not, I have a short memory these days when it comes to KenpoPhobe comments, after awhile they all blur together and sound the same:

"Boo Hoo Kenpo is not effective, too commercial, too complex, too simple, not inclusive, not specializing in X or Y or Z enough, lacking in this or that, the uniforms are ugly, the masters are fat, the practitioners cannot beat boxers, kickboxers, UFC fighters, the scripted ideal phase training sequence does not work against ninja in the parking lot, their are no codified basics, the bio-mechanical flux-capacitors are not traveling along the correct dimensional planes causing dis-associative nuclear fall-out from the IKKA and Ed Parker is a lousy fighter, kicker, ninja with a penchant for con-artistry." or just imagine the sound of finger nails on a chalk board.

And again, can't the same be said of any art?

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

Saying someone who doesn't like Kempo after trying it was "a destined failure" is ludicrous. Their opinion is based on their experience. No art is right for everyone, and no art is perfect, even for its ideal audience.

No it is true and yes it is based on their experience which was the experience of failure but that is the thrust of my point, it is their personal opinion from their personal experience with the Kenpo training they went through so share your opinion about your experience and personal failure with your journey through the art so we can make sure not to follow in your footsteps but don't foolishly assume that the problem exists with everyone else. We don't all train the same, we don't all use the same scripted ideal phase sequences, we don't even do the forms the same, we don't all get the same lessons from a given technique.

 

[Flying Crane]

Sami, I believe that I am the target of your ire and that this stems from the other thread where we debated the assassisn-worthiness of some techniques found in Form 5.

Am I correct in that assessment?

If you believe in your kenpo, all the power to you. You don't need my, nor anybody else's approval. I practice a system with a methodology that most people who first see it think it makes no sense. And there have been plenty of derogatory postings about it. I don't care, I don't need their approval, and I do understand the method so their opinion is meaningless to me.

But when things get posted here, there will be comments and discussion. Some of it positive, some of it negative, some of it derogatory and some of it ridicule. This is a discussion forum, so people will discuss and comment. That is what this place is. If you are not comfortable with that, then don't post here and don't read what others post.

The world is a much bigger place than Martialtalk. What is posted here is entertainment for many of us, but means next to nothing outside of this website.

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

And again, can't the same be said of any art?

Yes it can but I am saying it about Kenpo because I am addressing behavior haunting Kenpo discussions. If someone failed to learn Silat to an effective level and yet haunts the Silat forums telling everyone how Silat sucks in general it would apply to them I suppose they would be a SilatPhobe lol

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

Sami, I believe that I am the target of your ire and that this stems from the other thread where we debated the assassisn-worthiness of some techniques found in Form 5.

Am I correct in that assessment?

If you believe in your kenpo, all the power to you. You don't need my, nor anybody else's approval. I practice a system with a methodology that most people who first see it think it makes no sense. And there have been plenty of derogatory postings about it. I don't care, I don't need their approval, and I do understand the method so their opinion is meaningless to me.

But when things get posted here, there will be comments and discussion. Some of it positive, some of it negative, some of it derogatory and some of it ridicule. This is a discussion forum, so people will discuss and comment. That is what this place is. If you are not comfortable with that, then don't post here and don't read what others post.

The world is a much bigger place than Martialtalk. What is posted here is entertainment for many of us, but means next to nothing outside of this website.

No I will continue to post, maybe I will post more often. You did study Kenpo at one point and you quit to study another art and you do haunt the Kenpo forums sharing your experience but you usually don't paint with a wide brush, I been meaning to post on this subject for awhile but I have been busy, it is not a personal attack on you. And to anyone else who is acting like this is directed at them, if the shoe don't fit, don't wear it, but if it does fit, stick it lol

 

[Tony Dismukes]

the bio-mechanical flux-capacitors are not traveling along the correct dimensional planes

Whoa...is this true? If so, I'm definitely not starting Kenpo. I don't train any art where the dimensional travel of the bio-mechanical flux capacitors aren't aligned correctly. Any decent BJJ school will have your flux capacitors (both the bio-mechanical and the astral-electric versions) sorted out by the time you reach blue belt.

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

Well...an assassin has a busy schedule...

Now that was funny.

 

[Headhunter]

No I do not believe that Kenpo is the be all and end all of the martial arts, you would do well to stop assuming you know anything about what I believe or feel.
Your Kenpo has its weaknesses and mine has its weaknesses but they are not the same because we do not train the same way. Maybe you should not drag Mr. Wedlake into this to try and make a point, Mr. Wedlake did not quit Kenpo, he does not haunt the Kenpo Forums criticizing Kenpo and painting with a wide brush, In fact he has done much to spread the art and his books on the art are excellent, I highly recommend them.

Not all Kenpo is ineffective but some of IT is... no no some Kenpo practitioners are effective and some are not. Your correct some people can't physically do a technique a certain way, good thing with the help of a qualified instructor they can tailor it to work for them. If someone hates Kenpo that is their choice but if they want to run their mouth spewing BS about it, they are going to get it turned right around on them, that was the point of the post how to deal with the KenpoPhobes!

As for my sounding extremely arrogant, sure, take what I say and let it offend you to your core, to the very bottom of your heart but it really is not a personal attack, I don't even know who you are, its not like you use your real name, maybe you posted something in the past that fit the KenpoPhobe bill and now you think I am targeting you. I am not, I have a short memory these days when it comes to KenpoPhobe comments, after awhile they all blur together and sound the same:

"Boo Hoo Kenpo is not effective, too commercial, too complex, too simple, not inclusive, not specializing in X or Y or Z enough, lacking in this or that, the uniforms are ugly, the masters are fat, the practitioners cannot beat boxers, kickboxers, UFC fighters, the scripted ideal phase training sequence does not work against ninja in the parking lot, their are no codified basics, the bio-mechanical flux-capacitors are not traveling along the correct dimensional planes causing dis-associative nuclear fall-out from the IKKA and Ed Parker is a lousy fighter, kicker, ninja with a penchant for con-artistry." or just imagine the sound of finger nails on a chalk board.

Wow...you need genuine help I think...

Kenpo is a great art but some stuff simply doesn't work and if ed Parker was still around today some of the stuff that's there now wouldn't be in kenpo he'd have gotten rid of it as times change. I didn't quit kenpo and I'm perfectly fine saying some of it doesn't work every style has it's weaknesses kenpo very much included.

And ill bring wedlake into it because he's said things don't work, graham lelliott one of his top black belts say thee are things that doesn't work. Saying that isn't disrespecting it its being honest. I love kenpo but there are things that don't work

 

[Flying Crane]

No I will continue to post, maybe I will post more often. You did study Kenpo at one point and you quit to study another art and you do haunt the Kenpo forums sharing your experience but you usually don't paint with a wide brush, I been meaning to post on this subject for awhile but I have been busy, it is not a personal attack on you. And to anyone else who is acting like this is directed at them, if the shoe don't fit, don't wear it, but if it does fit, stick it lol

Well, let me point out that the entire world of traditional martial arts, and particularly Chinese traditional martial arts, which includes my system, gets a lot of negative press from various elements of the MMA community here. Not everyone, but certainly some of them. It gets debated and discussed and argued about, but in the end we can either ignore it or learn to live with it in some way because none of us can right all of the perceived wrongs that we see on the internet.

We would be up all night, trying to correct something stupid that someone else said on the internet, over and over and over.

So sure, stick around if you want and join in. Honestly, there has been very little kenpo discussion here in a long time, those forums are pretty dead, as is Kenpotalk.com. But relax a bit.

 

[Headhunter]

No I will continue to post, maybe I will post more often. You did study Kenpo at one point and you quit to study another art and you do haunt the Kenpo forums sharing your experience but you usually don't paint with a wide brush, I been meaning to post on this subject for awhile but I have been busy, it is not a personal attack on you. And to anyone else who is acting like this is directed at them, if the shoe don't fit, don't wear it, but if it does fit, stick it lol

Where on earth are you getting haunting from? The kenpo forum was dead until I posted about long 5....bloody well wish I hadn't now

 

[Flying Crane]

Wow...you need genuine help I think...

Kenpo is a great art but some stuff simply doesn't work and if ed Parker was still around today some of the stuff that's there now wouldn't be in kenpo he'd have gotten rid of it as times change. I didn't quit kenpo and I'm perfectly fine saying some of it doesn't work every style has it's weaknesses kenpo very much included.

And ill bring wedlake into it because he's said things don't work, graham lelliott one of his top black belts say thee are things that doesn't work. Saying that isn't disrespecting it its being honest. I love kenpo but there are things that don't work

I am the one who used to train kenpo, but no longer do.

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

wait a minute i resemble that remark!!!!
may i ask how many years you, Sami have been studing kenpo?
i would be more than happy to debate you on this and yes sure we can.get into the discussion deeper, are you willing ?
...."one thing you can rest assured they won't ever do is actually discuss the original topic in any further detail since they have no idea that the topic goes much deeper than their shallow understanding".

i personally find kenpo is not for me. there are some small aspects that i do like but as a complete system its not for me. however we will have to define what era of kenpo we are going to debate. the art has undergone some drastic changes over the years and from organization to organization.
your post while mildly entertaining shows an evident lack of understanding of other arts. how many other arts have you trained in Sami? are you guilty of the same phobia you describe because you are not a master of those other arts?

OK start a thread on it, introduce yourself (real name) mine is Sami Ibrahim and I will discuss it with you. To answer your question Yes I have studied other arts and I enjoy cross referencing Kenpo with other arts, I am not guilty of the same phobia and as to what era I would like to discuss the current era of Kenpo as that seems more relevant than people making claims about what it was like back in the day in the secret lair where Mr. Parker kept his real students.