Anyway, in your post... you stated that Kru Tong has mentioned in various articles that he has had trouble teaching Muay Chaiya. Can you provide links or reference materials for these articles?
I answered this question previously. I didnt state Kru Tong had trouble teaching Muay Chaiya, he never had trouble "teaching" nor did Ajarn Khetr, the system survives on TEACHERS who can fully embody the system and he was having trouble developing the instructors for the future(he stated this directly into my videotape camera and to hardy stockman and in print). A system can have multitudes of students but the instructors are who teach it and carry it to the future. It was a different landscape in the years before the "muay boran" craze, the younger kids didnt gravitate toward muay chaiya but other "exotic" martial arts that were taught. Ajarn Khetr tried to erase the "stigma" of muay thai(the parents seeing it as art of the poor kids desperately trying to fight their way out of poverty and thus something they didnt want their children associated with)by writing about muay chaiya and keeping it as a noble art thus you see alot of the middle class kids like ajarn lek, ajarn praeng being drawn to it and learning when they were young and then extending it to the university level. Even Ajarn Lek when he first started teaching was having trouble attracting students that would stick and stay but once people started to read and learn about it through articles, movies, tv, they came to train. Like I said one french researcher did an excellent article in english Muay Chaiya: fighting for survival, there was some also by hardy though I dont know if they were published, one in english by italian writer and researcher Sergio permutti. The Bangkok Post also always covered the thai martial arts when Hardy was editor and still do. Many others. Do the research and you will find them.
I dont understand also your question--are you disputing the fact that muay chaiya was not as popular as it became after kru tongs death? Muay Chaiya was taught but it wasnt popular by any means, the thais like to rewrite history backwards which is a great quote hardy told me. They see what it is today then go back and add it in the past. Muay Chaiya survived where other systems died out completely really because of Ajarn Khetr and the writing, teaching and respect he commanded and his ability to put out students like kru tong and many others who dont seek the limelight or teach commercially. remember also kru tong died young or young in my eyes because he was so strong and vital and tough, so alot of this would have been alot clearer if he would have lived on as i thought he would.
I would like to research these myself. Also, no disrespect to you but you haven't quite stated that you are affiliated with the Muay Chaiya foundation. So how is it exactly that you came into contact with Kru Tong?
Again putting words in my mouth. I am not affiliated to any foundation just my teachers. I am non commercial(I dont do martial arts for money and I pay for my own research and publishing myself) and dont get involved in politics which is what muay chaiya has become like it or not --- a minefield of ridiculous claims and politics. I came in contact as I said previously with Kru Tong through the late Hardy Stockman editor of the bangkok post who was close friends with the late Ajarn Khetr and kru tong, khetr wrote the forward to hardys book on muay thai, the first book in english on the subject. Hardy had researched Muay Chaiya through his close associations and passed on his work to me and made the introductions in the early 90s. I also met many of the instructors and students who were directly trained by Ajarn Khetr as well as one foreigner who came to train with khetr who provided me with alot of insight and his research. I was lucky to get it from alot of different sources and angles. This is what research is and where my training began.
And more importantly, why would he provide you special notes regarding the entails of Muay Chaiya, when you represent a different style of Boran completely?
I dont represent any system of boran as I said I am not involved in any of thepolitics you seem to be pushing. I started and continue to this day training in muay chaiya. He taught me the basics which i videotaped with hardy and gave me the corresponding notes then later my teachers provided me with the rest as i was learning I was translating and re learning. There are many excellent teachers who are non commercial and unknown but are brilliant teachers of muay chaiya both from ajarn khetr and kru tong and some from both teachers. Nobody could obtain back then kru tongs notes if they werent given to them directly by him or his trusted instructors. wouldnt happen and didnt happen. Nobody could just acquire it. That is a given. You had to be trusted.
The main reason for Kru Tong's inexposure to Muay Thai as a whole, was out of his want to keep Chaiya entact, and not watered down.
You are totally and utterly wrong. Kru tong fought against muay thai guys and he actually fought which is something most of his students and instructors didnt do nor learned from him. Kru Tong told me directly if i had any affiliation with muay thai, i could not speak nor train with him. They often tried to honor kru tong at muay thai events but he never went and never wanted to be associated with it. I asked Hardy why since it was kind of odd but he said kru tong didnt want any association with it. I have several american witnesses to this since he said it to me and one famous american muay thai instructor and another fighter. You can research that easily. If you track the genesis of this it came mostly from Ajarn Khetr who tried to keep muay chaiya seperate very seperate as i said previously from muay thai to keep it in its original form but it got twisted into a further battle as muay thai became more and more popular. kru tong inherited his teachers stand and being tough and brazen further pushed it. Kru Tong didnt need to study muay thai he could fight but I thought he should have seen it as a flow from the old muay to the new muay which was alot of safer and governed by rules. I remember in alot of the other muay chaiya classes with the people who kru tong taught that went on to teach, they would talk like kru tong everytime you brought up muay thai dismissing it way too easily especially for guys who didnt fight. The fact of the matter is there was a huge disdain for muay thai which was always puzzling. Probably still exists in alot of the classes. Once again you need to go to thailand and do your extensive research for a few years then we'll argue this and the other points at length.
namely Muay Korat via the Buddhai Swan?
The Buddhai Sawan method is not what I taught or represent I went to the buddhai sawan as well as other schools in thailand but its physical education and I went further and re educated myself in other krabi krabong systems that align themselves with the functional real world/combative material which is what i specialize in and teach. Dont CONFUSE my RESEARCH with my TRAINING though it would naturally overlap and associations made, etc. Muay korat is not taught at the buddhai sawan, the buddhai sawan teaches a physical education form of muay. I studied muay korat seperatedly and muay chaiya seperatedly and they are not mixed or diluted. just as I studied each different form of krabi krabong. I keep them as they are.
In doing research you have to see all ends so I tried to go and learn and interview the many different facets of each art, thus understanding each and also understanding the evolution of the phys ed formats which I went to the grade schools, universities to directly train in to understand them better. Its hard to comment on something you dont try to at least understand from the inside out. I did my best to do that for the research to be sturdy.
You know nothing of my backround and my training so try not to assume anything about me or my training. If you are going to do research I suggest you get on the plane to thailand and cross reference your material, something I havent seen any thai do and thus the holes in everythign they put out on the internet, in writing, video can have mack trucks driven through them. You will see like I have very clearly what the truth is. I am in thailand several times a year and you can PM when you arrive or before hand and you can address these questions to me in person. The only way to answer the questions you are asking is to personally do the research like I did and be ready to battle your way for the truth if that is what you want. One source, one foundation, one teacher is not going to do it for you or do your research justice.
I have really nothing more to say on this thread or this topic.
